Full Transcript
Erase that. Let’s start again.
David:
You can see my confusion as when you started, because I’m looking at our outline and I’m literally taking in a big breath about to start talking about birthday parties. And you launch into something that’s not in the outline.
Gavin:
Completely un I’m just keeping you on your toes, David F. and Vaughn.
David:
Ugh, this is Gatriarchs.
Gavin:
So before you get started, I was at a party recently, and basically the paparazzi came after me because of what? Gatriarchs. Two. We have one listener. I know, but now we have two. I mean there’s sisters. So does that count? Is that almost more like one? No, yeah, no, you that counts as two.
David:
Yeah. They paid two sets of income taxes. Like they’re they’re considered two legal entities.
Gavin:
It was very exciting. They came up to me and they let me know that they have been our longtime um listeners. And um one of the sisters in particular said, I just caught up last week. And um, and it was uh it was very uh it was very exciting. Um, one is gay, one is not, but they’re both like big fans of the show. And uh that was so we can no longer say our listener, we have to now say listeners. It’s gonna have to include Amy and Betsy. Yeah, listener plus Amy and Betsy. Now we listeners with names. So but it was gratifying because um they were fans. So shout out to Amy and Betsy. Thank you for letting me know that we are not just speaking out into the ether.
David:
What are we gonna do with this newfound fame and wealth? Legitimately unsure of what we should do. I do I know what I’m gonna do with my newfound fame. Do tell. I’m gonna spend it on fucking birthday parties.
Gavin:
Oh, do tell.
David:
So last week I mentioned um our something great, or my something great for last week for our back to school episode was my son recently turned five. And that’s really cool and great and whatever.
Gavin:
Totally feels like a milestone. Five is a milestone.
David:
It’s just it’s a big milestone. But what I left out was the fact that I had to pay for and throw a children’s birthday party. And we talked a little bit about this. Today’s good, we’re gonna be re-business. A year ago.
Gavin:
We’ve been talking about birthday parties are an ongoing conversation, obviously.
David:
It’s an ongoing conversation, but you forget, you get lulled into, you know, you go to every weekend is a birthday party. If you have kids in daycare or or in kindergarten, every single weekend is somebody’s birthday party. And it’s the same three places in your town. And you forget until it’s your turn to throw one, how goddamn expensive they are. Yep. So they they all say, oh,$3.99 for a birthday party up to 10 people. But it’s it’s when you walk out the door and you pay the bill, you forget that you’re paying$30,$40 a head. Uh-huh. And that doesn’t include cake, which is an upchart. It is just and it’s it’s and uh so I had a um a friend who came up to me afterwards, and she we have this kind of relationship, but she came up to me after the party. She goes, Thank you so much for inviting us and paying a thousand dollars so we could slide down the same slide we slide down every week. And I was like, Yeah, yeah, that’s exactly what happened. And my son got 40 gifts, 39 of which he were gonna, you know, return back to Target. And so I have no solution here other than before you get to the parties where it’s like your kids’ actual friends, where it’s like five people in the backyard. Yeah, they it’s a thousand dollars to turn five. Yeah, it’s a thousand dollars.
Gavin:
But when is somebody gonna be, you know, have that strength of character to say, no, I am not gonna do this?
David:
Actually, I think I don’t look at me for strength of character first.
Gavin:
Yeah, no, I of course, I mean, I was you you saw my eyes went away from the screen as I was asking that. And I was reflecting, because it’s certainly not my strength of character, but there are definitely our parents out there who are just like, we don’t need to create uh be in this rat race. I mean, let’s face it, you know who you are as a parent. You’re grounded as a person with no strength um sense of character, of course. But also, we do this to like keep up with the Joneses. We kind of think we are failing our kids if we don’t go into the full child birthday industrial complex. And so we’re keeping up with Joneses, and eventually someone that we need to find that strength of character to say the Joneses suck.
David:
So But you could just look at your kids and be like, they’re just running around like they’re running around on the playground every weekend with a friends anyway. Yeah. Why do we need to do it this way?
Gavin:
For a couple of years, my son wanted just uh now he’s a soccer fiend, but at the beginning of his soccer fiendom, he just wanted to have a birthday at a playground. Just a playground with some balloons on a picnic table, and he was thrilled. And I was like, This is awesome. Now let me just tell you, my daughter has made up for that tenfold for sure.
David:
So, in keeping with our theme of revisiting old topics, I wanted to revisit a topic for any of our new listener um out there who didn’t hear. And Amy and Betsy, yes, um, who did not hear this episode. Um, I recently did three trips with my kids. We flew to three different destinations to visit with some family. Um, it was a lot. And I was just thinking as I was going through the airport or being on a plane or having a blowout in the bathroom or sleeping in different locations, I was like, we should revisit this topic because um I know summer is over now, but traveling for the holidays and everything, when you travel with kids, there’s gotta be a better way. There’s gotta be a better way.
Gavin:
But nobody has figured it out. I mean, this is a the talk about the parental industrial complex, mommy blogs and daddy blogs and gay dad podcasts center on how the hell to travel without you know putting a bullet through your brain.
David:
Yeah. So here’s I’m just gonna give you my personal hacks of what now, again, I have a five-year-old and a two-year-old. Yeah, these are things that I have now done the past three times and that have worked and that I think could help everyone. But if not, sorry, you’re on your own. Good luck to you. Um, so one of them is I am always like, get me on the plane as early as possible because I want to make sure I have overhead room and all that kind of stuff. When traveling with the kids, if you don’t have like something you have to put up above, like if you’re just coming on with your backpack of stuff, swoop in at the last fucking second. Because to me, the worst time when you have kids on a plane is when you’re on the plane but not moving. Yeah. Because the kids don’t understand why we are sitting here, what are we doing? I feel like when you’re flying in the air, the whole like, I don’t want to be here tantrum kind of goes away. But when you’re on the tarmac, they’re like, what the fuck are we doing here? Let’s move people. So my first hack is get on the plane at the last possible second, unless you need that overhead room.
Gavin:
Yeah, despite the fact that, of course, the airlines all say children uh families with small children. Ignore that. Or yeah, agreed. Totally ignore that. Of course, I ignore that in life too, because I don’t, I’m like a two-year-old. I don’t want to sit on a plane that’s not moving either. So I’m all about like waiting for them to basically call my name, be like, oh, this is my personal invitation to flight to board flight 572 to Peoria.
David:
Gavin’s also got the body of a two-year-old. He’s like all torso. Do you know what I mean? Tiny little penis, all torso. Um, the other thing is, and again, if you’ve heard these hacks before, um, delete this podcast. But one is if you have, you know, games or coloring books or iPads or whatever the things are, more of smaller things is better. It’s the same with snacks. More of smaller things is better than a lot of one thing. So you’re like, oh, I have an iPad, he’s got a hundred apps on there. He’s gonna get really bored with that after 40 minutes. So having an iPad, one coloring book, one sticker chart, one thing, having five things that you can bring out kind of renews the excitement. Agreed. It’s the same thing with snacks, not a giant bag of pretzels, a little bag of pretzels, a little bag of pretzels, Cheerios, some goldfish, exactly because it all feels new and exciting. End of list. I have no other uh hacks for you. It’s a one and a two. A one and a two. Because here’s the thing traveling with kids is just really fucking hard.
SPEAKER_02:
Yeah.
David:
Um, oh wait, I have one more. I just realized. So we are a family of four, uh, two dads and two kids. And so when you most planes, I feel like are three and three. And so we’re always like, where do we go?
Gavin:
I think who’s your favorite child at this point? Correct. Uh who do I want to dump onto my partner?
David:
Exactly. I think the better way to do it is to do two and then two behind. Because then it’s one parent, one kid, but the the nonstop passing shit back and forth is so much easier when you have aisle middle or middle window, because then you have a direct line back and forth. And also you put the kid who kicks the seat in the back one. So you’re just kicking the other kid’s seat. Doing three in one, I think, is not possible because then you have one partner who’s on vacation and another partner who resents them.
Gavin:
I swear the way we always did it was one partner got to be on vacation in one direction, and then you traded on the way back. And ultimately that we put the kids together so that they can kind of commiserate and uh they entertain each other. But you’re right, the kicking factor, that’s a very conscientious. There’s strength of character right there, Mr. Yeah, I do have strength of character.
David:
But I also think what you’re suggesting is probably for slightly older children. My kids don’t entertain each other, they annoy each other. Kind of like you and I. We don’t entertain each other, we just annoy each other. Um what else is annoying?
Gavin:
Speaking of annoying.
David:
Our top three list. Gate three arcs. Top three list, three, two, one. Um, so you guys don’t know what the top three list is this week because last week we didn’t have a top three list.
Gavin:
Boy, you do a great job of keeping track of things like that. Thank God for you, David Ep and Bonn.
David:
So this week, uh it I’ve decided is my week, um, like most weeks of the year. Um, and this week we are doing the top three ways you are MAGA. How are you just MAGA all the way? So, um I mean, how much time do we have? Because got a few here. I love it. All right, so uh and number three for me, tailgating. I fucking love some tailgating. I know that’s not technically MAGA, but I’m thinking of like Trump Rally parking lot MAGA where there’s like football and there’s grilling and there’s lots of drinking and cheering and your best friends with a truck next to you. I fucking love that whole culture. I am totally MAGA for that. Um, number two, I am through and through a hypocrite. I for you don’t do as I do, do as I say, right? I am a hypocrite through and through. Why don’t you eat healthier while I’m stuffing down nachos in the backseat of a Ford Tempo? So uh number two, I’m a hypocrite. Number one, number one reason I am MAGA through and through is plastic straws. I want my plastic straws back. I love plastic straws. I hate sea turtles. I want to drink my Wendy’s iced tea with my big fat red plastic straw.
Gavin:
Excellent. I wasn’t expecting this topic to bring up so many relatable items, but uh, but uh the more I thought about it, the more I’m like, well, hell. For for ex for example, for me, number three, I love American rock slash country. I don’t think it’s really country. I think it’s just more American rock. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I don’t even really hate kid rock. It’s trashy, but I love like being that guy down on a dance floor in the middle of an afternoon at a country music festival. That’s that’s my jam. I can get into that. So um I’m totally uh MAGA for American rock slash country. Um number two, I hate irony, nuance. Number one, I also love MAGA drag. I love themed t-shirts, I love red lipstick, I love big ass flags that just let you fly your freak flag, and all of the pomp and circumstance and pageantry. I’m here for that.
David:
You love the theater of it all. You just love the theater of it all, yeah.
Gavin:
Just like MAGA heads, I love the theater, which frankly, yeah, there’s a whole mask going on there, so I’m here for the MAGA drag.
David:
I also love like taking one stupid joke like Lex Go Brandon and driving it into the ground. Into the ground. I mean, that’s this entire show. We’re we’re what are we on? Episode 78 or something today? Of the same joke. Of the same joke basically over and over. Or the same rant, at least. Yeah, exactly. All right, what’s next week?
Gavin:
So next week, since September is right around the corner, I’m very conflicted about September. My birthday is in September. I do not consider September a fall month. I consider it still, you know, the end of summer and my birthday. And um, and well, what what more do I need to say beyond that? However, I think corporate America absolutely turns September into the beginning of fall. And suddenly, you know, Target, as we all know, corporate America uh leans into all the holidays way too soon. But, you know, stores already have Christmas shit out, but um it mainly it’s just the summer or the excuse me, it’s the season of pumpkin spice lattes, and all that are fucking annoying about pumpkin spice latte vibes. So I want to know the three ways that you are most annoyed by hashtag PSL vibes. Got it. Does that make sense?
David:
Yeah. I mean, there’s there’s obviously a better way to say it, a cleaner, more interesting, journalistic way of saying that. But the way you said it also works. Okay, so our next guest is a writer, a writing coach, a wife, a mom, and also the founder of Dow Cakes, which coincidentally was also my grinder handle for a long time. Uh, please welcome to the show, Joanne Spitaro.
Gavin:
Joanne! Thank you.
David:
Hi, welcome.
Gavin:
Thank you for getting up. What feels still like um uh a nice fresh Friday morning, and you look like a million bucks, but um, have you been looking this way for four hours, or is this just uh Absolutely not?
SPEAKER_00:
No, no, you guys actually really got lucky with me today because I got my hair blown out a couple days ago, and I was like, you know what? It’s gonna last through this interview, and I’m gonna they’re gonna think my hair always looks like this.
David:
Interesting. Gavin just got his back blown out a couple days ago. So he’s doing well too. I’ve been sitting in this seat for four days now. Um, wait, so before we get into things, tell us um, how has your kid annoyed you today?
SPEAKER_00:
Well, honestly, trying to get on this podcast. I was like, I gotta go. And my wife Laura was in the bathroom for like 80 years. And I’m like, I have to go. I can’t get interrupted. Can you guys get it together? They don’t care. They do not care.
David:
Oh my God. Oh, it’s just, yeah. And my son also just turned five. And there’s just this newfound um you can go fuck yourself vibe where they think they can just be like, no, I’m not going to school. But it’s said in a different way where like they feel like they’ve got like prison to like back them up. Do you know what I mean? Like they’ve served time. I’m like, what are you doing? You’re five fucking years old, and you’re standing up to me.
SPEAKER_00:
It’s it’s very odd to me. But but the reason I was almost late to this is I had to dress her doll. Um, she has an American girl doll named Debbie, and that is D-E-B-E-H. That’s Debbie, please.
Gavin:
Because hey, okay, and she obviously she named the the American Girl doll.
SPEAKER_00:
Yes, because originally her name was Debbie, and then after a couple of um, you know, pink martinis at the American Girl Doll Cafe, she gave her a hug and said, I love you, Debbie. And I was like, That’s it. That’s wow.
David:
Fantastic. That’s it. Debbie. Debbie.
Gavin:
Oh my god, you have I mean, I wouldn’t have necessarily pegged you for an American girl doll family, but then again, kids want what they want, and we want to raise our kids to be woke and progressive and whatnot. And we don’t exactly think of the American girl doll experience as being woke and progressive, but shit, kids want what they want, right?
SPEAKER_00:
Well, this is where Debbie comes in. I mean, listen, she is a doll that came with no name. It wasn’t like she was part of some kind of legacy. She showed up as like one of the modern ones. So we could kind of do whatever we wanted with her. And once I knew that I could enjoy the American Girl Doll Cafe, i.e. pink martinis or whatever they have, I don’t know what it is. I just drink it. I was like, this is hysterical. So now it’s become like our gay Christmas tradition. We go to the American Girl Doll Cafe.
SPEAKER_02:
Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_00:
We take Debbie. We then you can take, I don’t know if you know this, but you can take some of those dolls that they already have and dine with them. So Debbie will get some of her buddies so she sees them only once a year, and we just have a good old time.
Gavin:
But wait, are you uh the whole family is sitting around a table with dolls and you are drinking alcohol in?
SPEAKER_02:
Yes, absolutely.
David:
This is Gavin’s wet dream. Are you kidding me? He’s foaming at the mouth right now thinking I get to bring my kids around alcohol.
Gavin:
I don’t want my kids there. I just want to drink a martini and talk to some dolls and scroll on my phone.
David:
I so want to see this middle-aged man drinking pink martinis by himself at the American Girl Dollar. I would lean into it. Dragged out in handcuffs.
SPEAKER_02:
Come with us.
David:
Okay, so you’re a writer. Tell us more about you and your kind of writing career. Sorry, I’m like literally like grabbing fruit flies out of the air. My house is filled with them right now and I hate it. Anyway, sorry. Tell us about your writing.
SPEAKER_00:
Yes. So I started as a tea movie critic for uh a paper. Yeah, for the Charlotte Observer when I I know when I lived in Charlotte, North Carolina. I did that for four years till I aged out, which is like 17 years old. I was, you know, just nowhere’s fill. I was really lost at that time. But I loved it. I used to bake brownies for the movie ticket guy, Archie, so I could get in for the free movies because the paper didn’t pay for my ticket, which is like yeah. So Archie was this ancient lovely man, and he would just let me go watch the movies. So that was the start of my career. And um, after that, I did freelance work, I belly danced for a little while because that’s what I’m writers do. Research, research. And then um, I was a paralegal for 10 years, which that is the whole of the podcast. Like, what was I thinking? Um, and then after that, I’ve written for the New York Times, uh, the advocate, I’ve written for Huffington Post, and then I wrote a book in 2021 called Preconceptions.
David:
Yes. Okay, and so the book is is largely about kind of how you came to parentage. Is that correct?
SPEAKER_00:
Correct. Yeah, it’s what it’s all about.
David:
So tell us a little bit about how, because like you’re you’re on Gate Yurik, so you’re obviously a very special person. Tell us, how did you how did you become a parent?
SPEAKER_00:
Well, you know, I always envisioned that somehow uh I would fall in love with a woman and we would magically have a child that was like both biologically ours. Like I was like looking at these articles on lab rats that were, you know, they could smash two eggs together. And I was like, sure, could this happen in my lifetime? And it was like, we are 50 to 100 years out on this. And I was like, oh darn, I’m just gonna miss it. Um so just a little bit. And so I always wanted like one daughter, like a glamorous child, and that’s in the book too. Like, I just I confide in my friends, I want this like glamorous doll baby, and they just laugh at me, and it made me sad. I was like, well, no, I really that’s something I really want. I really want to have one child. And so uh the book talks about how I met my now wife Lara, and we just had a great first date. And then um, she said on our first date that she was a you know trans woman, and I was like, my first thought was the most lesbian you-haul moment you could ever have.
David:
Oh, I can’t wait. I can’t wait.
SPEAKER_00:
Because it wasn’t just moving in together, it was like, wait, I can have a child with this person.
David:
Uh-huh. Wow, that is taking you another level for sure. I was I was assuming you were talking about cats or something. No, you’re talking about my my dream of having these two women having a biological child, yeah, is can be true. Yeah, I’m like, wait. You manifested that shit.
Gavin:
That’s amazing.
SPEAKER_00:
How this doesn’t have I don’t know anybody else who’s done the shit that I did. I was like, here it is. And so it worked out, which is good.
David:
That is amazing. So so when you did you guys meet on like a dating app or something?
SPEAKER_00:
We did. We met on Tinder.
David:
Mm-hmm. Interesting. And so she this this is something I’m and and if this is out of bounds. Please stop me. But I’m curious as like, did she I maybe this is a Laura question, but like, did she have any sort of like, when should I bring this out? Should I put it on my dating profile? Should I not? As to like, you know, some people I think it doesn’t matter if you’re a trans woman or not. And some people it’s a big fucking deal, right? We’re talking about like the the the genitalia is different, and some people are dick monsters like Gavin, and some people are open to different things. So tell us a little bit about that. Like, what did it feel like that was the right time to hear that?
SPEAKER_00:
Sure. I love hearing dick monsters before 11 a.m. Um first off. Second off.
Gavin:
That’s what that’s what we’re here for.
SPEAKER_00:
I love that. It’s bringing me life. So um, when I first saw her profile, you know, it didn’t say anything like that. I just thought she was hot. I’m superficial. I was like, here’s a hot lady.
David:
Same, same with the right place. You’re amongst good company. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:
Good. I was like, she’s hot. Let’s go out. And so when I first saw her profile, I was like, listen, let’s just cut the bullshit. Let’s not keep talking. Let’s just meet tonight. Like, let’s go somewhere.
David:
And so such a lesbian. I know. I love it.
SPEAKER_00:
Hopelessly lesbian.
David:
And so I was like, let’s sign a lease together. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:
Hey, should we like share money? Um, yeah. So anyway, and she’s like, sure. And I kind of tricked her though. I was like, I’m gonna go out and listen to jazz tonight by myself. Like, maybe you want to come along. And it’s like, no, I was very comfortable being in my pizza onesie eating nachos. Like, that was not something I do. But I’m glad we did it. So we meet up, and um, she starts talking about that she was at the time working on a comic about a trans woman, and sort of my journalistic side came out going, that’s a very specific thing to work on, if maybe you don’t have the experience. So I just sort of gently was like, Oh, what made you want to write that? And she said, I just did. And I’m like, Cool, whatever, you know, we’ll it’ll shake out. I’m not worried. And then later on that evening, she revealed to me, you know, oh, I’m a trans woman, you know, and I was like, hey, that’s cool. And she had a really cool backstory. Like, Laura’s kind of like this superhero, like she can like kick ass. She like was, you know, she can she is her physicality is wild. Like me, I’m like, let’s have a slice of cake, and she’s like, You want to do cartwheels? I’m like, what are you talking about? That’s probably what keeps me thin, is just her going, that’s too much cake, or you know, we bounce each other out. But so when that happened, it was like, oh, this is cool. Like it didn’t occur to me as something that I’d even be it be an issue. I was just like, she’s hot, I’m in. Like, who cares?
Gavin:
That’s fantastic. And it’s clear that you also have your own superpowers too. I mean, obviously, Laura was attracted to you, and and you have also jumped around from so many different careers, including Belly Dancer, which also sounds like well, that seems like a podcast in and of itself. But then how um how did may I say, or may I ask, how did you get to Dowel Cakes then? That brings us up to um what you’re doing now.
SPEAKER_00:
So, well, listen, children, right? Children change you. And um, my daughter needed something for her 50th day of 3K, and it was like the theme was the 50s.
Gavin:
Oh my god. Now wait, wait, wait, wait. I gotta stop you there. This is out, this is getting out of control. It’s out of fucking control. You already have the hundredth day where everyone was enough. That was enough. We must we really is it because our kids don’t have the brain capacity to go from 50 to 100? I think David’s two-year-old has the capacity to get to 100. I mean, honestly. There’s too many things.
David:
Our daycare calendar, which is on the fridge, every day has like three different like it’s national fucking bullshit day. Like, what are we doing here? Okay, anyway.
SPEAKER_00:
Yeah, bring your bullshit to work day. Yeah, I know. It’s just stupid. Um, and so I that’s but that’s how I was feeling. I was like, this is stupid. Why are we, first of all, why 50th day? Also, the 50s weren’t so great for lots of people. Why are we talking about this like it’s men? You know, like why? And so I was like, I’m not doing poodle skirts, not doing this crap. I am gonna make a doll cake which I never made before. It was my first time. And I said, I’m gonna make it as a baked Alaska because that was popular in the 50s, just to really get at them, which that’s the way to really get at people, right? Make a baked Alaska Barbie cake. Oh, yeah.
Gavin:
You still you changed lives by really sticking it to them with your ironic baked Alaska doll cake.
SPEAKER_00:
Right. So I make this cake, and mind you, it’s a couple days before Thanksgiving, and I’m still doing this craziness. Uh, my manny, my man nanny, I’m like, Do you have a blowtorch? I need to like blow the shit out of this baked Alaska.
SPEAKER_02:
Okay.
SPEAKER_00:
And uh, so he shows up with a blowtorch. I don’t ask why he has one. I’m like, I’m glad you brought it. And um he does that, and then I carry it for 30 minutes to her 3K. And baked Alaska is only supposed to last 30 minutes.
SPEAKER_02:
Oh shit.
SPEAKER_00:
And it’s like a miracle, like a religious miracle. Uh not religious, shows up at the day, it’s perfect, and the kids go crazy. And I thought, this is pretty neat. And then I thought, what if they were smaller? What if they’re like really little? And I found this kid on Etsy just scrolling while I was my daughter’s shower butler, which I’m sure everybody knows. Like you’re just sitting there and they’re taking the baths, and you know, you just you just have to be near them.
David:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:
So I’m being shower butler duty and I’m looking through Etsy, and they had these tweety, cute little dolls from the 70s that were just torsos, like just little pics, and they came with a pan. And I’m like, these are funny. So I bought the pan, best$44 I ever spent, and I just start playing around with it. And I did this absolutely psycho Valentine party for my daughter and her cousin, because they’re besties. And it was just like, I did Marzipan, Princess Cakes, Pink, Red. Laura, for some reason, started a bubble machine, and there was like a Lawrence Welk moment where they were like, like they were and they were on their little stand. I bought a stand that was like this gradient that looked like they were coming downstairs. Like I had completely lost my mind.
Gavin:
Wow. I mean, this is another level of overparenting, like a gay man, frankly. Like, this is you did this all for the Instagram, and but we applaud you for it. We applaud it. You forced it into a business, right?
SPEAKER_00:
And then it took, I was like, wait, why am I not? Like, people wanted this. It turned out it was so I did a pop-up. Sophie Turner was one of my first buyers. I didn’t even know it was her. Yeah. She was Joe Jonas was sort of creeping around the edges. I was like, okay. Um, and then I just kept doing pop-ups, and it just kept growing and growing and growing. And the big moment for us was I made a doll cake for Whoopi Goldberg that she brought on the view and was all through hot topics.
Gavin:
That’s oh wow. That’s amazing. No, so wait a minute, are you and Whoopi like still in contact?
SPEAKER_00:
Oh, yeah. We follow each other on Instagram. I met her on a book tour. She’s the best. Like, I mean, she’s I mean, everything you could hope. She’s really cool.
Gavin:
Oh, no, I I would imagine that she’s not, she’s a celebrity who does not disappoint. I would certainly imagine.
SPEAKER_00:
Now she’s so kind.
Gavin:
Can I ask, can you let a little secret into those who are entrepreneurs who are trying to get their their ideas, their creations, their passions into the hands of famous people? Like, what was your secret to get it to Woodby Goldberg?
SPEAKER_00:
I know. I got lucky with that. We happen to have uh a mutual friend slash direction.
Gavin:
Yeah. Use that. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:
But you know what I would say to people is um nurture your contacts. You don’t know who’s gonna give you the break. So really kind of be interested in people and listen and and really genuinely care. I feel that’s how doll cakes has been going, is that people have hopped along the ride and they’ve sort of joyfully done it. And I think it’s because the message we have is that doll cakes are for everyone. Um we that we are sort of in the memory-making business. That’s another reason I love it, is that as parents, I feel like we kind of we lose sight of things because like we’re just like kids, I need to do my hair, or like you know, like I wanted to make something that was fun. I wanted to make something that was delicious, something that now we’re rolling out our holiday line. We have a kit that you can actually order from anywhere in the US and do at home. You know, gingerbread uh houses to me are just kind of straight, like they don’t taste good.
David:
Absolutely. You put them together, straight straight people do not taste good. I can, I can, I can tell you that right now.
SPEAKER_00:
But the double cakes kit is something you can make with your big gay family, and it’s delicious, it’s campy, it’s fun, it’s a delight. So that’s kind of why I do it.
David:
Uh-huh. Okay, so I I have a bone to pick with you about this. So you are suggesting that I bake with my children. What sort of monster are you? Because I have tried that. I love to bake, I love to make things for people, but I don’t want you in my kitchen. I don’t want you messing things up. And of course, my kids want to like scoop the flour, but then they’re like, oh, look over there. And I don’t know, maybe it’s my type A, but I it makes me crazy. So what I’ve learned, my my trick, and now I don’t have your your wonderful kit, but I have learned that like let them do stuff that’s like set up for them. So I’m like, I have everything ready. You just have to stir the vanilla in, and then they feel like they helped cook. But the idea of them being there when I have to measure flour fills me with such dread. I cannot even tell you.
SPEAKER_00:
Well, listen, the kit is literally made for you because everything’s measured. Okay. Oh, look at that.
Gavin:
You don’t even have to stink which, you know. So that’s great.
SPEAKER_00:
It’s all measured. All the kids have to do is you just put it in a bowl, you add one or two tablespoons of butter with a whisk. They can do it with the whisk. They don’t even need like, and you put it in the oven, they go get distracted, take it out, let it cool, and then they doll up the frosting, which is included on there, included sprinkles, included doll. It’s like I’ve done this with my own daughter, and I’m not filled with rage, so it works.
David:
That’s amazing.
Gavin:
I before we go on, though, also, I want to click on something. This is gonna make um David’s head spin. But I there we go. In the vein of gratitude. I love what you said earlier about um uh in reference to nurturing your contacts and and cultivating friendships and being an open person. And basically it’s it reminds me of like what we all just want our kids to do, which is just don’t be an asshole. Like you’ll be a success in life, you will nurture connections, you will be, you will get where you want to go if you’re just not an asshole. So just just don’t be an asshole. And that’s um that’s parenting advice I can certainly get behind um whether or not cakes are involved. But in this case, it’s even better.
David:
No, okay, enough about that. Let’s go back to parenting and all the fun, disgusting stories. But I want to, you you had mentioned to me when we did our pre-interview about like you had a story about going through fertility with a trans wife. So tell tell tell me about that. Because I’m I’m curious, because I want to know, I want to know every single disgust. I want to read everyone’s my chart. Do you know what I mean? Like I want a level of detail on everyone’s life that is so out of bounds. But anyway, let’s not go there. But tell me, tell me how bringing a child into the world with a trans wife went.
SPEAKER_00:
Sure. So, you know, the way to do it is uh poor Laura, she had to get off of her estrogen therapy for a year and a half, and that’s pretty unheard of, you know, uh, without naming too many names. But there are a lot of other trans women who are very famous, have lots of dough, all of this. And I was watching how they could not do that because it causes a lot of dysphoria. And, you know, so it’s it’s for good reason. It’s that’s a reason people don’t do that. And the reason I had written my Times article about, you know, preserving your fertility before you go through any kind of medical transition to just even consider it, like to have medical professionals say, Hey, do you want to you know freeze anything before we keep going? I think it’s so important because then Laura and I would have not had that trouble, right? We maybe would have made a few embryos and cold it a day or something, you know. I don’t know. Um but anyway, so she got off of her estrogen, and we were at that time also moving from Charlotte, North Carolina to New York City, which is enough, right? That is enough stress.
Gavin:
That’s a lot, right?
SPEAKER_00:
So we’re doing that, and she’s starting to like not feel like herself, and it was really sad because I watched her turn into somebody else, like in the sense of she was always very upset, she’s very drawn, and that sort of carefree, fun personality was was done. The way I describe it to cis people who kind of like are like, what is it like? The way I’ve observed it and seen it is like imagine you don’t do anything to take care of yourself, like, and you do that for a year and a half. You’re gonna like be a jerk, you’re going to be angry, you’re gonna have a hard time. And that’s why I noticed with her, and sort of the rock bottom of it, which is in the book too, um, is we were at um this trans cabaret night at the duplex in the in the West Village, and there was a trans woman performing, and she was singing, I’ve got you under my skin, and she takes a syringe, which uh, you know, for those who don’t know, that’s a how a lot of uh trans women take their estrogen, right? They they put it a they shoot it into their leg. Um she goes and does that on stage, which was the only thing Lara wanted to do, right? Oh wow, you know, like and and and so she just of course storms out of there. Uh for context, it’s Cinco de Mayo. Um Lara is uh half Mexican, so it’s all these white people wearing sombreros.
Gavin:
So it’s like that’s a lot of triggers. That’s a lot of triggers in one night.
SPEAKER_00:
It’s a night nightmare scenario, and she’s like, Oh, I’m gonna rip their sombrero off their fucking head, you know, and I’m like, ah, and so I was like, Stop doing this. I know it’s bad. They shouldn’t be doing this. Let’s let’s like calm down. And it was just that was our scariest moment. And I at moments I was like, just get back on the estrogen. I really want a child with you, but like this is so not worth it. Like, I don’t want you to lose yourself. I don’t want you to.
David:
And is she having to like check in with a doctor every couple weeks to see when she was ready to produce again? Like what what like what were you was there a specific timeline you were waiting for?
SPEAKER_00:
Well, this is pretty funny. So then it cut time came to see how much sperm was there, right? And we go into so she’s a veteran too, right? So we go into the the veterans um hospital, they’re blaring Fox News, right? So you think, oh, this is gonna be scary. You know, they’re bouncing us from gynecology to urology, right? That’s like, where do we go?
SPEAKER_02:
Yeah right.
SPEAKER_00:
Then we get into this, this is just ridiculous. So we go down this little hall, and she’s just gonna like, you know, give her sample, and we hear the strains of luck be a lady.
Gavin:
Okay.
SPEAKER_00:
Luck be, and it’s like playing him like like a siren song we go in, and there’s this gorgeous little man. Um, and he’s just like, just need your sample. And he had Halloween nails. I’ll never forget the Halloween nails as that time of year, and he’s just like, just need this. He gives her the full cup of the bag. Good luck.
Gavin:
That’s how it goes.
SPEAKER_00:
Right. And I it’s just was such a like mind fuck to be at the VA, the Fox News. I’m with this lovely man who is family, and and I’m like, this is how you make a family when you’re gay. This is wild.
Gavin:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, there’s a lot to unpack there, a lot of layers observed by a writer for sure.
SPEAKER_00:
Yeah, and so the end of it is we thought we’re gonna have to do IVF, right? We thought we were gonna do that, and then we just kept getting angrier and angry at each other, and then um we must have like had sex at some point. I don’t really remember. Um, and I was like, okay, whatever. I go on an assignment for vice to the Bahamas, and we are like really fighting at this point. Like, I didn’t know we were gonna make it because just the hormones, the whole thing. It was not I’m in the Bahamas doing a story on is conch meat an aphrodisiac.
David:
Okay, okay. Well, is it? Okay.
SPEAKER_00:
Um, it’s disgusting. Anyway, uh it’s disgusting. So we so I’m in the Bahamas just drinking like a fish. There was this enormous tuna. There was like a culinary event that they were cutting, and you could hear the bones cracking, and I’m like, yeah, just throw it in my mouth. That’s fine. I’m like getting drunk, and I’m like, um, and I was so sick the next day, and I thought, oh, this must be all that shit I did the night before.
SPEAKER_02:
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:
Well, I get home, Laura’s not there. She’s decided to just go to London randomly. It’s a bad time for us. And then I go, man, I feel fat. I can’t put my pants on. And man, I’m hungry. And Laura’s like calling me from London, like, taking a pregnancy test.
SPEAKER_02:
Wow.
SPEAKER_00:
Oh, what a so I go and I take the pregnancy test. I was pregnant.
David:
Wow. Wow. Wow. And so you didn’t have to go through any of the IVF hoops that you kind of in your brain had planned. Yeah. And probably your pocketbook had planned.
Gavin:
Oh, sure.
David:
It’s just a strawberry margarita and a tuna fish, and you guys were upset.
Gavin:
Just like we often mock about straight cis couples who just get to do it without any thought. Well, lucky for you, that was that worked out all the ways that you manifested.
SPEAKER_00:
She wasn’t in the Bahamas with me. Like what we we we knocked it back. It was six, you know. Wait, she’s six pregnant. And we calculated it, but listen, her sperm was bent. They had bent tails. Like they were just swimming in a circle. And some somehow it still happened. And so I’m I’m don’t take that lightly. I’m very grateful for it. And we got pretty lucky with that.
Gavin:
Kind of the way she likes to do cartwheels, apparently. Her sperm kind of do the same thing.
David:
But also, like your manifestation skills are at such a high level. Yeah, I’m gonna need you to manifest some things for Gavin. Yes, agreed. Agreed. Um we’ll start with Gavin’s list, is a little too long, so maybe we start with me. Um, but uh yeah, no. I I think that is really cool.
Gavin:
Wait, so did Laura want to be a parent in the beginning too? Going back to your first date, was Laura also like I’m down for this.
SPEAKER_00:
You know, honestly, no, I don’t think so. But I think that we were very in love, and I think from that love we wanted to have sort of that walking, talking representation of love. How naive we were.
David:
If I I mean I the way you just said that, I was just giggling under the walking-talking representation of love. You mean that little kid who just wiped their shit all over the wall? That’s your men’s? Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:
I didn’t know anything, okay? Now I know, but like that’s what we thought initially, and it was very sweet. And so um, I think she really wanted to basically have a family with me, and that was really touching. So I that’s kind of I think her journey with it.
David:
So now that you’re two moms, I don’t we haven’t had a ton of uh lesbians on the show, but like what do you what does your daughter call you? Like, what do you sure?
SPEAKER_00:
So I am Mama, mom, hey you, and then Laura is uh Maddie.
Gavin:
Maddie. How come did did your daughter name Laura Maddie?
SPEAKER_00:
No, that’s what Laura wanted to be called.
Gavin:
Um so but then wait, can we go back to real quick for the biology a little bit? She’s a senior Joanne. Give me a totally a little bit of a sort of thing. Just I’m a boomer. Okay, boomer. Um but I am curious because there will be people here who you’re helping educate an awful at least three people who listen to this podcast.
David:
The three people, yeah. Now we know that there’s three.
Gavin:
Um but so then was the second that you knew you were pregnant, was Laura like, thank God, give me my drugs so I can go back to feeling like a normal person again.
SPEAKER_00:
She ended up taking her first shot uh when I was in the Bahamas, and that’s because we ended up putting her sperm on ice. Uh-huh. So it’s sort of so we like why it said we were playing for IBF or IUI. So it’s like, well, let’s just put on ice. But the irony of it is when we were at that sperm bank, I was pregnant. You know what I mean?
David:
Like wild, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:
I had no idea what a dumb me. I was like, I’m like those shows, I didn’t know I was pregnant, and it’s like, girl.
Gavin:
But so but she got to feel normal again, right? She got back to her normal. And which That’s what I was gonna say.
David:
Then she became the woman you met, and everything was yeah.
SPEAKER_00:
And everything was better, yeah. And now we’re just like, now it’s a different thing. We have this like third wheel all the time, which we love so much, but that’s a whole other, like, okay, now we gotta wrestle with this. We really haven’t gotten a lot of downtime to be like, oh, can we get back to how we met? Because then there was the pandemic, right? Uh, my child was born 2019, so it’s like, okay, 2020, pandemic, and this and that. And so we’re we’re working on it, but we still love each other, and that’s important.
David:
Yeah. Of course. I will of course I will say that, like, we talked about this last episode too, but you you and I are lucky because our kids, while they were born already alive in the pandemic, they were So young that they didn’t have like what a lot of these kids had, where they missed their first grade or they missed their high school prom or whatever. They like they’re not going to remember this at all. It’s not going to have affected them. But we remember because we had a child in the middle of a global pandemic.
SPEAKER_00:
It was nuts. And we lived in 550 square feet at the time, too.
Gavin:
Yep. As you do when you’ve just moved to New York. Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_00:
It was nutty. I can’t believe she learned to walk in that apartment.
Gavin:
Because she basically could just like lean to touch one wall and lean to touch the other wall.
SPEAKER_00:
She learned how to walk there. Laura and I somehow didn’t get divorced. Like she would watch Star Trek Voyager all the time and it really grated on me. But like she had her little station, and I hear that freaking theme. And I’m like, I cannot hear that song anymore. But we made it work.
David:
Yeah. That’s awesome. Okay. So you told me uh when we talked the other day that your goal is to be the gay Martha Stewart.
SPEAKER_00:
Fingers crossed, baby.
David:
How do we manifest this? Let’s do this. How do we manifest this? And what is a gay Martha Stewart?
SPEAKER_00:
What is a gay Martha Stewart? I mean, it’s it’s like Martha, but she’s gay and maybe even old. I think Martha is camp in her own way. We can all be camp in the way. Totally.
David:
She has she has come around to the camp. I think in the I think in like the 90s and maybe the early 2000s, she didn’t think she was camp. But now I think she’s come full circle and she gets the irony of herself. I think once she started association, her association with Snoop. Oh, I think then she was like, okay, I’m I’m a character now.
SPEAKER_00:
Absolutely. What it means for me is, you know, I want to be able to write cookbooks, which I’m working on my cook, my first cookbook right now. It means that I want to have these kits just in every kitchen because I just know people can have fun with them. They’re parent, you know, parent approved here, like like we just talked about. Um, and I want to be able to continue writing my memoirs. There’s I would have many more stories. So for me, it means you know, having the freedom to um be this kind of fun personality that I I like to be and all that, you know, stuff. And then um, I mean, honestly, not having to have a day job.
David:
Hell yeah. Well, you had told me too, which I really appreciated, which you said you wanted to have that Donna Reed feeling without the Donna Reed times, which I love.
SPEAKER_00:
That’s exactly it. Thank you. Because when I got that original kit off of Etsy, I was like, this kit would never fly now. It’s a pan and a few dolls. That’s not what people want. People want a full service thing, they want it all in one. And so when I made this kit, it’s a delight to me. I mean, listen, I’ve even fulfilled a couple of orders for people just using the kit, and it’s so freaking easy. So for me, I was like, this brings joy, it’s fun, and it’s something I see myself continuing to grow. Like, I eventually want my my child to be the CEO of Dollcakes.
Gavin:
Love that idea.
SPEAKER_00:
Yeah.
Gavin:
Make it happen. Awesome.
SPEAKER_00:
Yes.
David:
So uh wrapping up here, I want to ask you, what is uh we always ask, I will never forget the time when dot dot dot. What are those? What is one of those stories about a parenting you earned your parenting merit badge or a parenting fail that you’ll never forget?
SPEAKER_00:
I’ll never forget, speaking of the pandemic, how we still had our child’s first birthday. Like we still had a guest list. We um because yeah, because it was in the summertime. And so what we did is we rented out um a space, which was for free because you know, nobody ever was like, whatever, just use it. And I had an Excel spreadsheet where I had timed when you know, waves of people would come, like four at a time.
Gavin:
Smart.
SPEAKER_00:
Yeah. And we so we and we were like dignitaries. Laura, me and our child were we were just behind a table really far away, like 12 feet away, and we would just wave as people would come by, like, here’s the beatific child, everyone. Wave.
SPEAKER_02:
Hilarious.
SPEAKER_00:
And we had NAS, we had to go cupcakes. I was still thinking of baking then, even when I hadn’t started doll cakes. And it was, I was very proud of that moment because I felt it was important to still still celebrate. In fact, that was sort of my own way of being like, listen, we still have to commemorate these milestones. Yeah, totally because we’re all human, we need to still do that. So I was I was very proud of that. Um, things I’m not proud of, listen, I’m guilty every day. I have mom guilt every fucking day. And I just for existing. My friend and I were just talking about that. Like, why do we have mom guilt? And she’s like, because we exist. Yeah.
Gavin:
Because you’re breathing. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:
Yeah, because you’re breathing. So I deal with that every day. Like, I, you know, even though I work from home, I’ll be like, oh man, I’m not seeing her enough. It’s like you are. It’s okay. You’re gonna see her too much. Like, it’s fine.
Gavin:
And she needs to see you pursuing your passions too, and know that you have your own life, and that’s something to emulate.
SPEAKER_00:
And she’s actually learned a lot through the doll cakes, which is kind of cool. Like, because we are very um diverse, we do a lot of different diverse events and all this. And I think through the dolls, she’s actually becoming kind of a really good person. Dolls studies have shown even that dolls will promote um diversity and just kind of like goodwill towards other people. Not to get too preachy. I’m not trying to. I’m just saying that it actually is a good learning tool. So the fact that I can combine my business with teaching my daughter some really great lessons is it’s kind of great.
David:
Yeah. And listen, only as they say, only but only good parents think they’re bad parents, which is such a like I love hearing that.
Gavin:
Um that was very Gavin of you, David.
David:
It is very gaven of me. Um, and with that, we must bid you adieu. Thank you so much for stopping by and demeaning yourself by being on our stupid little podcast. Where can people find you, find your books, find your cakes? Tell us.
SPEAKER_00:
Yes. People can find dual cakes at dualcakes.com, D-A-W-L, Dollcakes.com. Um, they can find my book on Amazon. It’s called Preconceptions. You can only search for it preconceptions Joanne Spitero. I don’t know why, but they can find it on there. Uh, it’s an audio only edition. It’s really good. Um, yeah, draw and they can drop me a line. They can always say hi to me on Instagram uh at doll cakes. Come find me. Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you.
David:
Okay, so my something great this week. I had alluded to. We had traveled a lot lately, and we most recently went to um a family’s lake house. Um, my in-laws uh have a lake house, and they were so kind and generous to bring us uh all the kids and their families out to this house, and we had this incredible week together where we were swimming and boating and playing on the beach, and um uh it was just like you know, dragging behind the little uh inflatable raft, you know, that throws you in the air and everything. It was just so fun. It was so fun to watch my kids and my um uh brother-in-law and sister-in-law’s kids, cousins basically, yeah develop, you know, they were having a Taylor Swift dance party upstairs, they turned on Alexa really loud, and it was this whole thing, and it was just like this dream trip. And it I I love my my uh uh my sister-in-law, who’s a listener, who’s our listener. Oh, all right, uh who also gave birth to Emmett, and she was our first surrogate. She was there with her family, and it was just a dream. It was just so fun. We love each other so much, we we only get to see each other about once a year. Um, but it was so, so, so great. And I was in a lake every day for a week, which was so fun. So, yeah, that was my sending great. What about it?
Gavin:
I mean, and also uh being able to bond with family like that is so important, whether it’s the family you’re given or the family you make. And um, it’s sometimes it takes a lot of effort, but being able to have the kids together and frankly babysit each other for a little bit and just um so that the parents can go and kvech and and and say, Hey, we should start a podcast about complaining about our children. So mine is water-based as well. Earlier this week, uh, we are not traveling, we haven’t done any travel this summer. Um partly because we live in a really nice summer place and we kind of save our pennies um to go away, hopefully in the winter. But um, we’re getting a little stir crazy, and so my partner said, You gotta take a day off work because our my weekends are still kind of like, ah, the shed has to be painted, oh the the caulking has to be done around the bathtub. And we haven’t had a lot of just lazy sit-around days. And so he’s like, You gotta take a day off and let’s go to a beach with waves, which means we gotta drive to another state, Rhode Island, not very far away. And we took the day off and we were um at a beach with waves. My daughter came kicking and screaming, but I couldn’t get her out of the water. And she and my son were just like boogie boarding, and it was the best. Like those simple summer pleasures of a beach if you’re lucky enough to be near one, and family being together, oh, brings a tear to my eye. But before David vomits or has a seizure from his eyes going up, that’s our show. If you have any comments, suggestions, or general compliments, you can email us at katriarchspodcast at gmail.com.
David:
Or you can DM us on Instagram. We are at Katriarchspodcast on the internet. David is at DavidFM VaughnEverywhere, and Gavin is at GavinLodge on nothing.
Gavin:
Please leave us a glowing five star review wherever you get your podcasts.
David:
Thanks, and we’ll pay a thousand dollars with you next time on another episode of Gatriarchs.