Full Transcript
Oh shit. Oh. Okay, wait. I actually was going to make a joke about um there was some poop related thing. Fuck! I didn’t write it down. I wrote so many things down for notes to myself. And this is Gatriarchs. So this week, several times, um, I was reminded by my 11-year-old that she is not any longer a three or four-year-old. There have been several times, now don’t take this out of context. Do not, do not, the entire world take this out of context. But there have been a couple of times that, for instance, I was like walking up the stairs after her and wanting her to hurry up, and she was going up to brush her teeth, and I was just patting her butt, you know, like giving a little daddy pat, right? And she’s like, Daddy, stop doing that. I’m not for anymore. And I have to say, you’re gonna see, you don’t get to pat your kids’ butts anymore. We used to have this adorable, hilarious, oh God, I hope this doesn’t make me sound like a weirdo. An adorable regimen where at night we would be saying goodnight and we would say prayers, and I would say, and bless this little butt cheek, and bless this little butt cheek, and bless this little butt. And I would just go back and forth, and it made the kids scream with laughter. And uh, I’m not allowed to do it anymore, which is good. I mean, she’s drawing her limits and she’s like being independent and she’s pushing back and whatnot. But there have been many conversations that I’ve had actually a couple years ago when my kids were a bit younger, with some other dads in the um in the hallway waiting for school to start, where we would joke about how, like, I wonder when it’s gonna be inappropriate, but I still like being able to touch my kid’s butt because it’s cute. Butts are cute, you know.
David:
And also it’s just like it’s just part of the kind of parenting experience. You’re holding them by the butt. Like it’s just, yeah, no, totally. There’s a really great um TikTok I saw recently. It was talking about the teenage years and like why teenagers are such fucking assholes during their teenage years. And he was saying, it’s it’s it go, it goes back to like a biological impulse is that when they hit puberty, in order to avoid inbreeding, they would uh leave their families and leave their tribes to go to another tribe in order to not do the inbreeding. And so there was he was he was saying, so instead of like fighting against that, he goes, What they do is that they look at you as parents and think you’re fucking idiots. Yeah. But they don’t think that about all parents. So he was like, What you want to do is you want to surround your kids with other adults that they’ll go to that can reflect the same things like the morals or the structure or whatever that you want to do. Yeah, exactly. So it was it was a really fascinating thing because I know you’re just about to hit the teenagers and I’m far away from that. But I was thinking, yeah, but like it was something, it was a really good thing to think about is like this is happening to them biologically, and a way to kind of help them still guide them is to make sure they’re surrounded by good people and not people like you and I who are horrible people.
Gavin:
Really glad that you uh directly linked my story about patting butts to the word incest. Cool. Yeah, you’re welcome. It’s absolutely true. You’re absolutely it makes perfect sense. There’s nothing abnormal about her pushing back for sure.
David:
But so speaking of abnormal, weird incest, um good. Uh-huh. Yeah. I was I I came, I I came to a realization this week. So we were um we were in public and uh my kids were uh with my husband, I think they were going to the bathroom or something. So I was by myself, it was just me. And another dad walked by with this like three-year-old girl, and she was like doing silly stuff or whatever, and I was looking at the little girl and smiling and like laughing, and I was just thinking about my kid. You know how it is. You’re like in the parenting community. Um, and then I’m like laughing and looking at this little girl, and then I look up to catch the eyes of the dad who’s looking at me and looking at me like, what the fuck are you doing? Oh yes, we’re gonna be able to do that. And that realization that from his perspective, this lonely old 43-year-old man is looking at my daughter, flirting with my daughters smiling and talking to them. And I wanted to be like, no, no, no, no. I have kids too. I’m just we’re in the kids. But it was so funny because I I I always now, you know how it is. Now you I look at kids differently and I think about my kids when I look at their kids, or maybe they’re having a meltdown and I kind of like have a smile to them being like, Oh, I I’ve been there before. But from the other parents’ point of view, they just see the strange guy looking at their children. So I was like, okay, that’s that’s something I need to remember when I’m just like staring at another person’s child. It’s like, I look like a creep to them.
Gavin:
Fra I was frantically looking through the underwear section of Walmart last night because my kid, um, my daughter needed a last-minute thing for a spirit date thing. She really wanted a white tutu. And I’m like, I don’t know where to find a white tutu. I can let her buy borrow one of mine. I have a couple. Well, if I had only planned ahead of time, I wouldn’t have been a complete failure of a dad. Who was then walking around the preteens section, looking at like behind the bras, through the underwear, being like, where, because they told me to look in the dance section. I’m like, okay, well, basically I’m looking at underwear. Are there any white tutus around? And I and I was I was thoroughly looking, and I thought, man, if these cameras are watching me right now, I must look like such a weirdo. And yet, what a way for us to start this episode.
David:
Isn’t it just creepy, gross things? I swear, we this is really representative of who we are, honestly. Um, let’s just let’s just move on to the top three list. Because listen, it’s it’s getting it’s getting worse. So we might as well. Tell us about this week.
Gavin:
This week I was thinking about who are the professions that turn you on. Tell me what you think are the three hottest professions. With all due respect to all of my friends out there who are, you know, chemists and mathematicians. You are not on the list. Um, but I want to know what you think. So um, number three, I mean, come on, firefighters. Yeah, obviously. Oh, yeah. I mean, obviously. It’s so cliche I don’t even need to explain it. Number two, photographers. Because I feel like photographers, male photographers are often very forthright and creative. They often have like funky, floppy hair.
David:
They’ve got that look in their eyes and smolders in their eyes.
Gavin:
They know how to smolder, and you know they have taken so many sexy pictures of other people, and yet they’re just kind of cool about it. So I dig that about uh photographers. And then number one for me, flight attendants. Really? I stare at every single one of them and I’m like, are you in the mile high club? Are you in the mile high club? Are you in the mile high club?
David:
Maybe my my sample of the flight attendants I’ve seen are a little skewed.
Gavin:
But maybe I’m not as superficial as you are, and I don’t think that they need to be like totally hot, marky mark um flight attendants, but there’s just something about the thing. That’s a real modern reference they’re getting. But there’s just something about their oh, I I that goes back to last week’s conversation about the hot murderers, and I was thinking about Mark Wahlberg, that’s what it was. But um, but you know, like, hey, the dudes in uniform and they’re uh, you know, they’re there to serve. And I just wonder, have they all had sex in the bathroom? That’s what it comes down to. Number one, flight attendants. They probably have.
David:
I mean, come on. I I mean, like that that would be them having sex at work, by the way. Um, all right, so my top three lists, uh, top three hottest professions. Uh, number three, lifeguard. But wait. Oh, yeah, very specific kind of lifeguard. The lifeguard at a water park at the top of a slide that tells you when you can and can’t go down. Something about that position in the lifeguarding community, they’re always so sexy, or the one that they’ll like push your tube down. Like they’re the ones who like choose. Yeah. Number three, lifeguard at the top of the slide. All right. Number two, prison guard. Totally. There’s a prison guard. Like it’s a guy who’s a prison guard who brings their kid to my my kid’s daycare. And he it it yeah, super. It’s the uniforms. It’s the uniform. There’s just there’s a there’s a power and a comfortable that is totally um, and and number one, thank you, Jesus, carpenter. A carpenter. There’s something about a carpenter, a uh like a craftsman, even maybe a contractor that is like, and and maybe it’s goes to my carpet guy, the ticket TikTok carpet guy. Yes. But like something about a carpenter, there’s just you need to get those big hands, and yeah, there’s something very sexy about a carpenter.
Gavin:
I I was going to have carpenter on my list, I’m not gonna lie. Nice, but I realized there are so I know in my area where I live, there are so many contractors and so many carpenters. I don’t want them to all think that I lust after them. But you’re welcome, guys. I’m yes, I’m absolutely lusting after all of you on the soccer field, let me tell you. So, what is next week’s um top three list gonna be, David?
David:
All right, so we’re gonna move it back to kids just for a week. And we’ll go back to I know. So next week, our top three list will be top three non-toy toys. So, top three things that kids are obsessed with that are absolutely not toys. Yeah, great. Okay, so our guests this week are two guys that I met on the internet, which to be honest, would describe like half of the men who stumbled through my front door. Um, they are former members of the U.S. military, they’re escapees of living in Florida, which we’re gonna talk about, and they are current residents of Brazil. Uh, they are expecting twin girls any minute, which is insane and exciting. So please give a big Gatriarch’s mouth hug to Will Silva and James Isaac. Hi, guys. Hey guys, um thank you for being here.
SPEAKER_01:
You had to say twin girls. Oh my god.
David:
I know twin girls. Like, do you think you’re ready?
SPEAKER_01:
No, no, who’s who’s ready for that ever?
David:
I’m I actually appreciate you saying that because I think a lot of people before their parents are like, oh no, I’m prepared and I’m ready for this. I’m so excited. But but we really I I like the honesty of like, I don’t know what I’m fucking doing. None of us know what we’re doing.
SPEAKER_01:
No, like I I was, you know, I was recruited to the gay brotherhood in my early 20s. I experimented with vaginas, you know, in my younger years.
David:
That was exactly what I was gonna do. And a drag queen read a book to you and you became gay. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:
No, no, I became gay like every kid that grew up in the 90s became gay. I saw Chris O’Donnell and Batman and Robin, and that was it.
David:
That is a hundred percent every kid’s story in the 90s. But not until you said that did I realize that’s my story. Yeah, that is so many. I mean, it’s it was that and like the like what was the underwear catalog that was like really slutty? It wasn’t to exist, it was um It was Sears.
SPEAKER_01:
Oh, too.
David:
No, there was the Sears in the JC Penny, but there was like a like a like a really slutty one where like all of the all of the fabric was like see-through a little bit.
Gavin:
I mean to exist was pretty slutty, but there was even more than that.
David:
Yeah, but yes, Chris O’Donnell as oh my god, like that could have just brought me to a place.
Gavin:
And Mark, every single Marky Mark video, um but but Chris O’Donnell’s a really good specificity. I love that. Uh wait, so you um yes, you chose to be gay after seeing Chris O’Donnell, right?
SPEAKER_01:
Well, I mean, I don’t I didn’t have much of a choice. Like, I mean, I guess I could have changed the channel, but I didn’t.
Gavin:
I definitely mean that in jest, just in case my sarcasm doesn’t get come across podcast. But but the fact is, nobody, nobody knows what they’re doing as a parent for the first time. And so you know that. So are you nervous excited or just excited? And how are you feeling your time knowing that you will have no more time ever for the rest of your life? It’s starting in just a few weeks.
SPEAKER_01:
So like finding out, well, finding out initially that we had twins, there was like the initial terror, like, oh shit, there’s two of them. Like before we outnumbered them. So like when it was us against the baby, you know, we could still probably win. Yeah. Um, but now there’s two of them, they can divide and conquer. Uh so and they will. And they will, yeah. It’s like, you know. Um but yeah, it’s it’s it’s it’s excited, but it’s scared. Yeah.
Gavin:
Are you filling your time by um fretting and shopping, or are you just like going out to dinner and watching a bunch of porn and hanging out and just enjoying your time without kids?
David:
And cruising the beach and cruising. And eating cookies, which I saw Will doing the other day.
SPEAKER_03:
Yep. Yeah. Yeah. So um I I mean, we’ve been kind of like trying to mix and match. We’re trying to be responsible and like getting things prepared, like painting and getting like we have a crib and we have all these diapers and a bunch of stuff because you know, we don’t know what we’re gonna really need. And so we’re trying to get as much as we can that’s reasonable. But at the same time, we’re like, okay, look, we got like this many days left, so like we went to the US for a month and we’re going to the beach all the time, we’re going to some, you know, gay places that I won’t. Yep, yep. Some gay venues. Yes.
David:
And and listen, I’m sure people have told you this before, but take the stress away of the stuff. If you have diapers, bottles, and wipes, that is the end of that. Is uh honestly for the first couple of months, that’s all you need. Many of the things you you’ll you’ll you’ll be fine with, but like those are your three, that’s like the holidainity. Right now, after that, everything else is just like paint and fun and stuff, Instagram stuff. Yeah, those are the three things that we use all the time daily. Um, but uh yeah, it it is it is an ex it’s exciting for me to kind of live vicariously through you because there is something so exciting about this impending thing that’s arriving that you have no real control over. Like they are gonna come when they fucking please. Exactly. And when they do, they’ll be like, I’m here, bitch, wipe my ass. And and that that is the adventure you guys have. And you’ll be like, I’ve heard that before. But anyways. But so I I so I jokingly said we met on the internet, but we literally met on the internet. We are all a members of um some like gay parents groups, and you had posted initially that you guys were pregnant and you had some questions or whatever. And when we kind of when I read your uh post and I uh we we started chatting a little bit, I realized that your story is so fucking fascinating. So I wanted to just like talk to you guys about your story of like how you got to waiting for the two twin girls to arrive. So both of you are former military. So tell me a little bit about like how you joined the military and how you met each other.
SPEAKER_01:
Do you want to start?
David:
I’ll start. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:
Uh so I um I was born, raised in Florida. Uh, I’m so sorry, me too. I know, yeah. Well, I mean, I’m not there anymore, so things get better. Uh but uh uh so I uh yeah, I was 19, joined the Navy. I was like, I I just I need to get out of here. Um and I was like, oh yeah, four years and just figure out where I want to go to college after that, and blah blah blah. So 10 years later, um, you know, I I’m still in the military, but that’s I, you know, I was in for 10 years. Uh but about halfway through, um, I was stationed in Monterey, California. Uh, and uh that’s where I met this guy who was also stationed in Monterey, California with the Air Force. Um so he was going to school there. I was uh working at as basically faculty at a school.
David:
And you met in church, I assume, right? Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:
We met at church. Um, and uh it was during a sermon.
David:
And well, I mean but um so but you actually met on Adam for Adam, which for for the younger gays out there, pr pre-grinder, pre pre-Craigslist, really. I mean Craigslist was a thing. No, Craigslist was a thing, but it was not it was not, it was like Manhunt, Adam for Adam were like like the chat rooms were like the two big, but they were web-based. It wasn’t like in your pocket, and people forget that. Like you had to log on to a computer to chat with people.
SPEAKER_01:
Yeah, or you had to want have one of those newfangled phones that could like get on the internet. Yeah, and uh yeah.
SPEAKER_03:
And so one night I so I stayed back, it was while we were in the military. I stayed back home watching like friends, dogs and cats and stuff like that. And I was like, no, I’m not doing this. I already spent Christmas going to people’s houses all day. All the cats and dogs were okay. I’m gonna go out tonight on New Year’s Eve. And I sent him, well, actually, like I logged on to Adam for Adam and was like, okay, I gotta find somebody. Like, let’s see if I find anybody, otherwise, I’ll just go out on my own. And I sent this, like, I look, you know, Adam for Adam back then was kind of like grind in the sense of like the pictures, um, where everybody’s just posting their like dicks and butts. And so occasionally you would find like a face picture or something like that. So I was like, all right, let’s just send messages to you know, these five face pictures I’ve seen. So I sent them out, went and took a shower, and I came back to check my messages, and I was like, oh, look, there’s all these replies. So I’m just like clicked on the first one, and I was like, I looked at the timestamp. I’m like, oh my gosh, this person replied to me at the exact same time that I sent the message. And wow, they sent the same message. Weird. Oh, that’s so cool. So I like replied and I was like, yay, that’s so neat. And I pointed this out, right? Only to find out that it was actually just my original sent message. It wasn’t a reply at all. Um, yeah, that that was that was him. So that’s how that works.
SPEAKER_01:
So on my end, I randomly get two messages from this guy. One saying, Hey, I want to go to a block party tonight. Would you want to meet up? And two, him replying to his own message saying, Oh my god, I can’t believe you sent the same thing as I did. And I was like, This guy’s in the city.
David:
And like, who is this fucking idiot psychopath? Let’s go out. Yeah, let’s go out.
SPEAKER_01:
I I think I literally said that was kind of dumb, but you’re cute. Let’s go out.
David:
I mean, that’s how love happens.
SPEAKER_01:
And that’s how and now we’re 10 years later.
David:
So you met, you fell in love, uh uh, you waited till marriage, of course, to have sex. And then you you’re in Brazil now. I I need back check that for me. You guys are in Southern California. How did you get to Brazil?
SPEAKER_01:
Well, we were in we were kind of in Northern California.
David:
Monrays in Northern California.
SPEAKER_01:
Uh but it’s a geography, David. Yeah. Geez. Uh so uh well, I he’s from he was born and raised in Brazil.
SPEAKER_03:
I was born in Brazil and I lived here until I was like five or six and immigrated to the US, so I’m you know one of those first gen people. And um so that’s the connection to Brazil. But like, you know, we were both still in the military, we go through our military issues, and we actually got married while in the military because like it was on top of, you know, like, hey, you know, we’re doing great, I think we’re gonna continue doing great. Um, but also this is gonna help us financially and with like base location choices and getting to live off of the actual base, things like that. So we’re like, let’s do it. So it was only like eight months after we met that we married. Yeah, but you but this was during Don’t Ask Don’t Tell, correct?
SPEAKER_01:
It was right after. Yeah, right after the repeal of Don’t Ask.
David:
The marriage itself was right after So you guys were together and dating, conceivably, in the mil active military, but couldn’t talk about it, right?
SPEAKER_01:
Uh like Don’t Ask Don’t Tell.
SPEAKER_03:
Both of us individually were. Yeah. When we met, we it was right after Don’t because Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell was 2011, like towards the end of the year 2011, and we met in 2012, the end of 2012. So when we were dating, it was okay to talk about already, but each of us went through the individual like stages of like, hey, we can’t talk about this or else we could get booted, and like dishonorably so.
Gavin:
And I I am kind of curious to ask though, uh, was ultimately was the military a good experience with you for you guys? Did it like for instance, James, did it um get you you said, I want four years, go figure out my life, come back, and like did you you both had, I hope, positive experiences ultimately. Did you figure out your life is the question.
SPEAKER_01:
I I mean, uh uh like the the military for anybody is gonna be good and bad. Um you know. Uh like I I appreciate some of the things that happened in the military. Uh you know, I I definitely learned how to be a bit more organized and and and a bit tougher on certain things, but you know, it it’s a lot of Separation from the people that you love, separation, you know, uh going and doing things you really just don’t want to do, um, and uh make no conceivable sense.
David:
So did you feel like an outcast or as a gay person? Like how was the how did your gayness um affect your kind of military career personally?
SPEAKER_01:
Uh for me, um well so my first six years in the Navy, I was stationed in Hawaii. Uh so you know, terrible, terrible duty.
Gavin:
Uh good call for the Navy, huh? Yeah, good call for the Navy.
SPEAKER_01:
No, um uh the the thing about the gay community, especially like, you know, your Facebook groups and things like that, is uh, you know, um the gay community there, it’s it’s pretty close-knit and kind of incestuous. Um and so uh you know, there was that tracks.
Gavin:
That tracks.
SPEAKER_01:
Yeah, yeah, that tracks. So while I wasn’t necessarily like close to people that I was stationed and worked with, I, you know, I had a a a lot of friends in a and a pretty decent community there. Um so like you know, things like I, you know, I deployed to Iraq for a year and and stuff like that.
David:
That was kind of hard because you know, I’m not with my you know, my friends, but uh but then so like in Iraq, did you were you still living kind of authentically as a gay person, or did you kind of like hide that just to kind of get through that year? I mean or were you just surviving?
SPEAKER_01:
Yeah, that was that was in the midst of don’t ask, don’t tell. So like that, you know, I’m living authentically as a gay person, one, in Iraq, and two in the military. Um, you know, it’s just like plus you’re working 14, 15 hours a day, seven days a week. So you don’t have time to be your authentic self. You don’t have time to be gay. Yeah, you don’t have to get a game. Or straight. It’s it’s or straight, honestly. It just takes up so much time.
Gavin:
How about you, Will? Did you um was the military a positive experience for you?
SPEAKER_03:
Uh so um yes and no, same, same kind of yes and no, but probably to bigger extremes than it was for James. So, like the first two to three years of my life, you know, probably like the best years of my life. Like, seriously, I just it was non-stop partying, and like it was like the college dorm experience, but like on steroids, even and it was amazing. And I met some people that I know to this day, like you know, friends that are just lifetime friends. Um, and then like, you know, some of it even related to don’t ask, don’t tell. Like, you know, my first loss, I guess, uh, of a friend was because of, you know, he was gay and um he ended up like committing suicide. And you know, that really, really hit me because it was in the before don’t ask, don’t tell, and I was just like, oh my gosh, you know, like it all just gang became even more real. Um, and then it was just like a series of like losses, you know, whether due to the military or not. Um, you know, like one was like a news story. A friend of mine, you know, her husband who was military killed her, like because he was like some kind of anti-Oba thing. And like it she he thought she found out and was gonna tell me about anyway. It was like, and then the military, lots of friends that got deployed, um, you know, that were like I said, you know, they were like brothers and sisters and didn’t come back. And uh so that went on like a big you know train wreck for me in terms of like my mental state, and um also like because of like the crazy hours I worked in the at NSA uh overnight, and uh a lot of these things just mixed together, and like I end up developing like narcolepsy and like sleep apnea.
Gavin:
I would imagine it would totally screw you up if you’re working nights all the time, huh?
SPEAKER_03:
Yeah.
Gavin:
So anyway, but the military brought you guys together. That’s true. It did. Sorry, I didn’t mean to go.
David:
Yeah, well, yeah, let’s be honest. And also Will’s like like like banana’s brain that night. That’s really what brought you guys together. Okay, yeah. Um, so so so you guys moved back to Brazil when we were talking about this because you guys are conceivably retired. And you guys are babies. I mean, yes, you are, and my god, that’s amazing. It is fantastic. So tell me about that that thought process, because I think you told me a little bit on the phone, but let’s go through it. Like you guys left left the military and you had a pension you were drawing on, and you realized that the conversion in Brazil was enough to live on. Is that right?
SPEAKER_03:
Yeah, so this is something that I’ve always kind of had in my mind. Um, after getting out of the military, like the pensions that that did take a while. It was like a process, you know, and but moving past that, we went to um Florida first, and that’s where we used our GI bills, both of us. Um, and so you know, because the GI bill they pay for your school and they give you BAH, which is like a housing allowance. Um, and so we lived there, and that’s when we started realizing, oh, you know, our pensions that buy themselves without the GI bill, like that’s not very much money. Like it was helping us like maybe buy groceries. But like you said, you know, the conversion rate, like back then when we first moved here, it was like 350, 375. And we were like, you know, let’s let’s we’ll calculate it, see how much it is, and also things are just cheaper here in Brazil, so let’s do this. Um, since then, you know, the exchange rate’s gone even higher, it’s one to five now. So, you know, like the money that we make off our pensions is enough to live here pretty comfortably. Um, you know, like a thousand dollars is five thousand hey eyes. So, you know, when the minimum wage here is one thousand how eyes, like we’re making five times, you know, the the minimum wage here just from our pensions.
David:
And so that’s incredible. And one of my favorite porn stars lives in Brazil. So I’m very excited that you guys maybe run into his name is Seth Fournay. Oh no, I don’t know that. He’s like this like muscly ginger who’s like this, like, yeah, anyway. This is why we invited you on the show. Do you want to can you introduce me to Seth? Um no, just not um, but but so you guys came to Brazil. Now let’s talk about babies because that’s that’s really why you’re here. Other than your really interesting story is like you guys decided you wanted to have kids. Did you both want to have kids when you met?
SPEAKER_01:
Uh no. I uh yeah, that was that was that was Will. Um I was very, very unhelpful in the decision-making process. Okay. Uh yeah. He was like, Oh, do you want kids? And I was like, I don’t, I don’t think I want kids until we have kids.
SPEAKER_03:
And I was like, okay, look, that’s not how it works. We’re gay. It can’t just happen.
SPEAKER_01:
Like So it was it was more me just kind of being like, look, if you want them, you’re gonna have to take the lead on them. And you know, I’ll go along with it.
SPEAKER_03:
And I’m like the most indecisive person in the world. So for me, saying something like that is like, okay, you take the lead on this decision, and I’m like, no, we have to make decisions together. We’re a couple, we’re married, like I can’t know.
David:
If straight people had to decide together to have children prior to having them, there would be so few left so many done in two generations. I mean, it’s it’s it’s one survived like us gay people, we have to like have conversations and planning and stuff, and they can just literally like we they’ll just bottle a bottle of Chardonnay and it’s done.
SPEAKER_01:
And Michael Buble.
David:
Yeah, and Michael Buble and a box of Francia, you know.
Gavin:
Yeah, um how how are the Brazilians? How is your community and how does Brazil look upon gay couples with surrogacy?
SPEAKER_01:
Brazil is, I think, pretty fine with gay people, honestly. It’s the surrogacy that that they more like that they more I I don’t even necessarily know if the word is looked down on, they just kind of look askew at.
Gavin:
Yeah, there it’s confusing.
SPEAKER_03:
Yes, yeah, like so. We’ve been going to hospitals, you know, trying to pick which one we want to take our surrogate to. You know, she’s 33 weeks tomorrow, and we we need to find everything, right?
Gavin:
So yeah, you need to be ready. Sorry, I don’t mean to stress you out, but yeah.
SPEAKER_03:
No, you’re right, you’re absolutely right. We’re like looking at our phones. Yeah, like we have our phones that are by at all times now, like, yeah. So, but you know, we went to hospitals, and you know, the first hospital we went to, we actually had a little bit of negative. Like this, it was an older lady, so she was like, uh, you know, that’s not how that works. You need a man and a woman. And like, I was like, no, she’s you know, this surrogate, she’s not the mother. And she’s like, maybe in your head, she’s not the mother. And I’m like, this is gonna be you know, it’s so funny.
David:
The words you use are so important when you do surrogacy, and it depending on where you’re like, I was fortunate enough to do both of our uh rounds of surrogacy in Portland, Oregon, which is like the most surrogacy-friendly state. And everyone understands that, like, this is a birth mother, or this is a surrogate, or this is a gestational surrogate, or this is an egg donor, and they’re not mom, this, mom, that. So, but but in a lot of places, even some of my best friends, we talked about a couple shows ago, where like some of my best friends didn’t know how to describe the egg donor. They’re like the mom, the the and and so I understand how the words get wrong, especially in a uh country like Brazil, who maybe gay and or surrogacy in general is not very common, and they think, yeah, if you give birth to the baby, that is the mom.
SPEAKER_03:
Right. Yeah, so we’re actually we’re actually the first uh gay couple in the place that we specifically live. They’re look at you breaking down barriers. Okay, yeah. So like that’s that’s one of the issues. Like, every hospital we went to, they ever they’ve all been like, We’ve never had this before, what do we do? And so, like, we’re sitting in this tiny room for like social assistance, and like they’re getting the director and the like uh captain, nine people, all the biggest people, right? And to talk about this and how they’re gonna do it. And the once you get to the higher leadership, they’re all like excited, they’re all like, Oh, this is great, you know. Well, you’re very welcome to do this here. Um, we just don’t know what to do.
Gavin:
Like, how so often that it’s just new to people, so you have to be the leaders and for better or for worse.
David:
And be well, and and like you said, Gavin, like sometimes it’s nice to be like, oh, we’re breaking down barriers, we’re changing people’s minds. And then sometimes, as gay people, to constantly have to explain ourselves, to constantly be the first in somebody’s lives, can be exhausting.
SPEAKER_01:
Yeah, there’s an exhaustion to how to take these people and be like, look, there are babies in her, they will come out. Once they’re out, you give them to us.
David:
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:
That’s it. That’s all you gotta do.
David:
Did you try telling that to them in that exact way?
Gavin:
It’s just and so how is your Portuguese now, James? I would imagine you’re studying, or uh, how are both of you how is both of your language skills?
SPEAKER_01:
So the thing is about Portuguese. Like I can I can I can do enough to get around. I can I can you know I can tell people I’m hungry, thirsty, and horny. Like whatever. Really? That’s not the Holy Trinity.
David:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:
Uh but like, you know, I I I I can go out on my own and I like I can go to the gym or the grocery store and things like and get all that done. But um, like sitting down and like actually talking to people, especially, you know, like the northeastern Brazilian accent, which is where we live, is very different from the rest of Brazil because they’re all just savages here. Wow. Wow. Um Wow.
Gavin:
But uh our we have a huge listenership in Brazil, so I really don’t be offended, but I think we’ve had two downloads. Have Adam.
SPEAKER_01:
Oh my gosh, all two. Actually, I think those are me.
David:
Actually, I must say that might be you guys.
SPEAKER_01:
I think I listened, uh yeah, I listened to a couple of your podcasts.
David:
But does that feel isolating a little bit?
SPEAKER_01:
Uh no, actually. I mean, because it they’re very friendly and they’re very paper. They’re very friendly.
SPEAKER_03:
Sometimes he uses it as a defense mechanism. He’s like, I’m glad I can’t actually talk on some of these, so I could just say, no, I don’t understand. Move on. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:
Like if some if somebody’s bothering me in public, I’ll just I’ll I’ll say in very clear English, like, I don’t speak Portuguese, even though I do a little bit. Nice. Um and that’s usually enough to just get them to leave me alone.
David:
And Will, do you speak Portuguese pretty much?
SPEAKER_03:
Yeah, so Portuguese is my first language, um, actually. So I learned English there in the States. That was really, really difficult. But I was also like five or six, so I learned very quickly. Um, and I think that’s given me like a an ease for learning languages. In fact, in the military, I was a linguist, so I learned Arabic and French and you know all these other languages.
David:
So I mean, did you learn English by watching friends like every other person?
SPEAKER_03:
I got to I got to the US with I only knew the word yellow, and they threw me in school. Literally, they just threw me there. And I like it was awful because, like, you know, there was some, you know, this is Wichita, Kansas. So, like, yeah, there was a team, my kindergarten teacher hated me. Like, I knew it. And I was just like, Because she hated the color yellow, and it’s all Utah.
David:
Yeah, yeah, that’s that’s that’s gotta be.
SPEAKER_03:
Stop with the banana bullshit.
Gavin:
Jeez, that was discrimination, all right?
SPEAKER_03:
But uh um, but I did learn it really quickly there. Like it was just through school, you know, eventually, just I mean, you’re a kid, I think you just pick it up more easily.
SPEAKER_01:
So yeah. So once my daughters, once my daughters start going to school, I’ll just go with them. And I’ll learn.
David:
Did you hear what you just said? Daughters. Yeah, I said daughters. Daughters. You’re gonna have daughters. So, guys, tell me about how how did you find this surrogate?
SPEAKER_03:
Um, so my mom is uh super extroverted, and you know, like here in Brazil, you’re on your own for finding your surrogate. So they’re not associated with the clinic. It’s not like you go to a clinic, here’s a list of surrogates, blah, blah, blah. No. So we have to find our own. And my mom basically was like, I’ll find you one because we were kind of recovering from our first experience where we were like, maybe we shouldn’t even do this anymore. My mom’s like, no, give me your sperm, I’ll find you a surrogate, I’ll do everything. I’m like, okay, uh, weird, but all right. And then so one day she’s at like a bank and she literally just exclaims to the bank. She’s like, Hey, my son’s looking for a baby, and I need a woman. And then it’s like, what? And like, strangely, that worked because some lady was like, Hey, I know some girls, and they get in contact, and next thing you know, there’s a girl at the door or at my mom’s house, and I came over, I didn’t even know, I came over to visit, and there’s this girl there, and they’re all talking about it, and I’m just like, What is going on? And next thing you know, yep, now she’s our surrogate.
David:
I mean, that’s a lesson for all of you out there who are looking to find a surrogate. Walk into your local bank and start yelling, I’m looking for girls.
SPEAKER_01:
I mean, I yeah, the the moral of the story is most problems can be solved or caused by Brazilian mother-in-laws.
David:
And and judging by your tone, James, I’m hearing there’s a lot of stories back there that you’re just gonna leave, but there’s a tone in your I mean, I I mean, everybody, you know, everybody who’s married has a mother-in-law, I mean, usually, right?
SPEAKER_01:
Uh so I you know, they all yeah, but they’re not all Brazilian. But uh no, she’s she’s a a dear little thing. She’s like four foot and nothing.
David:
Uh she’s good at yelling at a bank. Uh really good at that. So you guys were initially double pregnant, is that correct?
SPEAKER_01:
We were, yeah, we were initially double pregnant.
David:
And that is that is the post I think I initially met you on, as you posted that you had two surrogates concurrently pregnant with twins, which if I’m doing my math right, let me take out my calculator, that’s four children at the same time, or four kind of growing things in these bodies. So tell us a little bit about that.
SPEAKER_01:
So for that, like the the surrogate, um, when we were double pregnant, it was uh, you know, it was the the surrogate that my that my mother-in-law um kidnapped from a bank.
SPEAKER_00:
Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_01:
And um and uh this other surrogate was like an associate. We have a we have a lady that you know will come and clean our house, and it was an associate of hers. Uh and we met and we jived, and um, you know, we uh we went to a uh a clinic and the clinic was a little bit shady, I guess. We just we were so new to the process and we just didn’t know what our resources were. Uh and so we, you know, we kind of just went with it and um and it resulted in a in in a chemical pregnancy, but not anything that was gonna grow. Uh and so we were like, all right, well, we’re just gonna, you know, take some time off and and you know, figure out if that’s what we even want. And that’s when, you know. So that was before our you know, our our twin girls. Our twin girls. Um and then not long after we find out that we’re having twins, um, you know, she comes back, she’s like, hey, I’m I’m ready to try again if you guys want to. And we’re like, well, like, you know, we we had embryos made from his sperm, we had embryos made from my sperm, all from the same egg donor. Uh so we’re like, well, you know, we we can’t just tell her, nah, you know, come back in a couple of years. We’re we’re already asking her to put her life on hold and and grow some babies for us.
SPEAKER_00:
That makes sense. Let’s consider it.
SPEAKER_01:
And so we’re like, well, I guess we just really have to go with her timing on this. So we’re like, all right.
SPEAKER_03:
Also, back to the Brazilian mother thing, you know, my my mom was like, no, you must have them all at the same time. So she was like pushing. She wanted like quadruples. Absolutely certain looking back that she was behind the scenes, like urging this girl to come back. Oh yeah. Yeah. So like cyberbullying for us, we were like, oh, yeah, you’re available. I guess we should, you know.
SPEAKER_01:
Yeah. Yeah. So so um, you know, we took her to the you know, the same clinic that we, you know, have our you know, made our twins with, um, and everything was looking good. We got the we got the positive pregnancy, the um HCG levels.
SPEAKER_03:
Yeah, so the HCG levels were high enough that the doctor’s like, it looks like twins. And that was when I made that post, and it was like, oh my gosh, we’re pregnant, and this looks like twins again. And it’s like, wow, so we have the twins and we’re pregnant again with more twins, and it’s like, uh, they’re if if that’s true, then they’re gonna be born like five months apart. Oh my gosh, what are we gonna do? And I was freaking out.
David:
That’s one thing, hey, that was that was that’s when I popped in your DMs. I’m like, hey boys.
SPEAKER_01:
Yeah, so um, and so you know, we go to the to the eight-month scan, and it’s only showing one baby. Eight or eight eight weeks, eight months. Seven weeks, seven weeks or whatever. Yeah. Uh, and um, you know, only showed one baby. So, like, yeah, two had implanted, but one hadn’t grown. Um, and we were pretty fun with a singleton, which honestly, the thought of three babies sounded so much infinitely more manageable than four babies uh that I was like a little relieved. A little sad, a little relieved.
SPEAKER_03:
Pretty happy with that. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:
Uh and then that’s understandable. And then, you know, it wasn’t it wasn’t too long after that we, you know, got the notification that she was later. Uh yeah, about a week later that we got the notification that she was having a miscarriage. So uh, you know, so it was uh, you know, it was a failure, but um, you know, not something that we can’t recover from.
David:
Yeah, but you know, it’s also something to keep in mind is that like uh it’s for people out there who don’t do IVF or IUI or whatever, is that like chemical pregnancies, um, miscarriages, so so so common. So common.
Gavin:
It’s so helpful for you to even talk about this, frankly, because hey, we have a lot of women listening and a lot of men listening, and for everybody to realize that um it is a miracle that we are are any of us are actually here. Yeah, and it it is very common, and it’s sad, but it’s very common what you’ve gone through in my surrogacy process. We went through um not exact something similar. And you know, the unsolicited advice that I got from somebody at the time was you are gonna get the kids that you’re meant to have. And it’s true, you don’t look back thinking what you missed out on. And it it is sad, but um, it’s part of your resilience as you grow forward as parents. Exactly. But thanks for sharing it.
David:
Yeah, thank you. And and and as Gavin said, you have two little girls that you’re about to meet in the next month. So I before they let you go. Yeah, tell me, like, what do you imagine it’s gonna be like with those twins arrive?
SPEAKER_03:
So my biggest concern is the girls part, right? So I am a gold star, platinum star, diamond star, gay. I was like, I’ve never Vagina in my life. I was a C-section. I didn’t even, you know, breastfeed. My mom was like, no, I didn’t want it.
David:
I wanted to get so gay from just the very get-go.
SPEAKER_03:
Yeah, like just out. Yeah, there was zero, zero. I was like, no, mom, I don’t want that breast. Give me the bottle. That’s way more phallic.
Gavin:
I mean, this this makes all the more sense that she would go walking into a bank saying, somebody, some woman out there has got to help.
David:
So, Will, you and I talked about this on the phone, and I I I we connected so well on this because I felt the exact same way. We had a boy for our first kid, and our second kid was a girl. My first thought was like, I’m so I’m so nervous to be around that, not for any other reason than I just am, I don’t know, and I and I feel weird asking. And and yeah, and all I can tell you from somebody who’s now, you know, my daughter’s 15 months old, is that it took me about two diaper changes, and then I was over it. And it was the second diaper change when her vulva was full of diarrhea, and I had to scoop it out with a wipe that I finally was like, oh, I’m in it. This is it. I am a parent, and there’s something that takes over your body that it’s not there yet. But as soon as those girls are in your arms, it is just going to become like whatever I do to make them happy or healthy or clean or whatever. But I I I had really uncomfortable conversations with our pediatrician, and I would, I asked him, I was like, how do I clean? Do I, how far do I push in? I was really nervous because I felt like, is this weird that I’m asking this? Is it weird that like I just didn’t know what I was doing and I was so afraid of it. And that is so beyond, like, that is so gone as of like day two. So yeah, it will feel weird, and it will you will ask really uncomfortable questions to these poor Brazilian nurses who are gonna be looking at you like what? You don’t even know anything. But I’m telling you, like, it’s it’s gonna be old news. But I totally get what you’re feeling. I felt the exact same way.
SPEAKER_01:
Like, you know, because we we talked on the phone uh briefly, like a couple of a couple of weeks ago, and yeah, when you when you literally said there’s gonna be shit in her vagina. Yeah, literally. And like, yeah, that was like a clarifying one, because I know the uh the obviously the anatomy down there, the logistics, it all makes sense that it’s gonna go in there, but yeah, like just the just hearing somebody say that out loud. There’s going to be shit in your daughter’s vagina that you have to clean out.
David:
That is up to you to clean because she can’t do it herself. And honestly, and we talked about this last week. Infant shit does not follow the same uh rules of physics that the rest of the earth does. So just know that like oh no, there will be times where you will pick her, you’ll open her diaper and there’ll be no shit in the front, but she’ll have shit on her neck, and you’re gonna literally go, How did she do that? And it’s because the laws of physics don’t exist.
Gavin:
But you won’t even be able to ponder those laws of physics because you’ll have another one to change at this exactly the same time, too. So you get very little contemplation time. Exactly. So I want to do a little experiment with you. We might cut out all of this, but I want to do a little experiment, okay? I’ve been concocting some questions here on the side. These are meant to be just gut response questions, okay? Basically, I want to do a test right now to see if we can come back and talk to you in, say, six months and see if the answers still stand up, okay? Yeah. You guys have to come back. I welcome you to add to this as well, and but this doesn’t have to sound as slick as we’ll edit this to make it sound slick, okay? Don’t overthink it. You can just give some yes or no questions or some impulsive responses, okay?
SPEAKER_01:
Okay.
Gavin:
All right. Um will your kids be able to use iPads? Yes, yes. Will they have sp are what are their interests going to be? Uh Catherine.
SPEAKER_01:
Chemistry? Yeah. Catherine, uh Catherine’s gonna be a biochemist. Talia’s gonna be a stripper.
David:
Oh my god, I’m obsessed with you. I’m obsessed with you.
Gavin:
Will you feed them chicken nuggets?
David:
Yes. Oh, nice.
Gavin:
Are they gonna sleep in bed with you? Yes. No. Excuse me. Will you have your when you’re sitting and playing on the floor with your kids, will you have your phone out texting and reading the newspaper?
SPEAKER_01:
No. No.
Gavin:
I can’t wait to.
SPEAKER_01:
That is so no, I I will tell you what will happen. I will have like Shit’s Creek playing on in the background on the on the TV. Down Abbey. Or Down Abbey. I’ll be paying attention to those while I’m playing, but I won’t have my phone out.
David:
See, what I love about you, James, is that you understand that there’s two parts, there’s two wolves inside of you. There’s the Florida, which is the stripper, and then there’s the Brazil, which is the chemist. So you want to make sure that your children follow on that same path.
Gavin:
Yeah, yeah. Are are you uh reading any any uh guidebooks to parenting right now? No.
unknown:
Okay.
David:
Well, yeah, I mean, look, look, listen, Gavin is is fucking with you a little bit. You you you are already prepared. Yeah, you’re not gonna be able to do that. You are enough, you have enough stuff, you have all the knowledge you need, everything you need to know. You’re either going to ask somebody for help for, or you’re going to make up on the spot. Yeah. And I’m telling you, you will, you guys are gonna be totally, totally fine. He’s he’s he’s fucking with you a little bit because it’s kind of fun. But you guys are gonna be totally, totally fine. You have everything you need, and everything from here on is just gonna be like, I don’t know what the fuck do we do now. I guess we’ll try this. And that is parenting. That’s parenting. It’s just making it up as you go along.
Gavin:
And I still am. I have a nine-year-old and a ten-year uh ten-year-old and an 11-year-old, see, and I’m just making it up as I go along. Let me ask you a couple more questions, okay? For just for fun. Oh god. Um, we’ll um do you think you’ll ever get bored? Yes. Are you following any philosophies of parenting?
SPEAKER_01:
No.
Gavin:
What do you think the first solid food will be?
SPEAKER_01:
Mash beans, yeah.
Gavin:
Will they join the military? One of them might. One of them might. Will you do Disney? Will Disney be allowed in the house, the movies and whatnot? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Will you go to Disneyland World?
SPEAKER_01:
Maybe when they’re I don’t know. Yeah, maybe.
Gavin:
Do you think you’ll heat do you think you’ll heat bottles?
David:
Yes. Don’t. Well, okay. Don’t. I texted you, Will. Do not fresh from like the fridge. Mix those bottles, put them in the fridge, freezing cold, give them to them starting on day one. They will get freezing cold. Here’s why. Is that a life hack? Yes, it is a life hack. Here’s why you do that. Because your kids only know what they know. So there’s all these bottle warmers and wipe warmers and blah blah. Fuck that shit. Have them understand that food is cold and it will change your life. And sometimes it’s warm. It’s fine. No, but but make it cold as much as possible because then they’ll never balk at it. Same thing with wipes. Wipes are cold. It hits your butt, it’s cold. Now they’re used to it. So whenever you’re out in the wild and you have to make a bottle real quick or you have to do wipes, then you’re not worried. Where’s the warmer? Where’s the warmer? Make, I’m telling you, from day one, fresh out of the fridge. Then you can make all your bottles for the day in the morning. Yeah. And then you don’t have to make any more bottles for the rest. You need to write a book.
SPEAKER_01:
Stick with me for life. Write a book that I won’t read.
David:
Yeah.
Gavin:
Guys, thank you so very much for taking time. You are making the world a better place, both in Florida, Brazil, and beyond. And uh we appreciate you sharing some of your vulnerabilities and your story because you sharing your story is making truly um is helping all the rest of us too.
David:
And we are so excited for you guys. You are gonna have a blast. You don’t worry about anything. You have this, and we want to check in with you six months from today on episode whatever that will be, and we’ll see kind of where you’re at, and you can introduce us to your uh biochemist and stripper daughters.
SPEAKER_03:
Yes, yes. Thank you guys so much as well for inviting us to do this. Like, even just this uh conversation we’ve had today has just like really been uplifting about everything and just you’re now part of the club.
Gavin:
So you got this, you got this. You do have the instincts, you got this. Enjoy!
SPEAKER_01:
Well, thanks, guys. We’ll see you again in six months if we’re still alive.
David:
Hey everybody, David here. Just wanted to give you a quick update. We recorded this episode a few weeks ago, and I am happy to tell you that Will and James now have two beautiful, healthy baby girls. They were born earlier this week, and surrogate and dads and babies are doing great.
Gavin:
So, something great this week that has happened is everybody around me seems to be going to the Taylor Swift concert. Everybody, my children have let me know that everybody in town is going to Taylor Swift. And I’m gonna say that something great is Katy Perry, because uh we are not spending$10,000 to go see Taylor Swift tonight, tomorrow, or the next night. And but I did counter by saying, you know, to my kids, you know, Katy Perry has a standing show in Vegas, and it would be literally cheaper for the entire family to fly to Vegas, stay in a hotel, and see Katy Perry for maybe$85 instead of Taylor for$8,500. And they were like, yeah, that sounds more fun anyway. So, you know what, frankly, a little moment of levity for My Something Great is frankly, Katy Perry wins over Taylor Swift. Boom.
David:
Nice. Um, so My Something Great This Week is an app. Um, it’s called Skyview, and I am very much obsessed with this app. And all it is is a um app where you open it and then it kind of you know triangulates where you are and you point it to the sky. You can point it in any direction you want, and it will basically layer the actual what you’re looking at. So you can point it to the ground and you’ll see the little bit. And then on the other side, you’ll see all the stars, the planets, the satellites, all the things. So if you see something in the sky, you’re like, is that a satellite? Is that a planet? Is that a star? What is that? You can literally point your phone up and it will tell you, and you click on it, and it’ll say, Oh, that’s Mars, and here is the orbit it’s going in. It is so fucking fantastic. So if you’re ever camping or whatever and you can like have a really great vision of stars, it is such a fun app.
Gavin:
Don’t you think of the people who have made those apps as being legitimate geniuses? Can you imagine if somebody came up to you and said, Hey, you, David, you, David, uh, for Mary Vaughn, you are going to we need you to develop something on your phone so that you can put it at the ground and see what the sky looks like off of Australia right now. I I might it makes my head explode thinking how in the hell that technology exists. That and Porn MD, honestly.
David:
Those are the two things I’m fascinated with. Yes. From the stars to From the stars to the dirt star.
Gavin:
And that’s our show. If you have any comments, suggestions, or general compliments, you can email us at Gatriarchspodcast at gmail.com.
David:
Or you can DM us on Instagram. We are at Gatriarchspodcast on the internet. David is at DavidFM VaughnEverywhere, and Gavin is at Gavin Lodge on Thursdays. Please leave us a glowing five star review wherever you get your podcast. Thanks, and we’ll smell you next time on another episode of Gatriarchs.