Full Transcript
Yeah, that’s that’s part of I think our it’s like double jumped and you and I are either side of the jump rope and we both don’t know and we both tried to jump in and it didn’t work yet.
Gavin:
Yeah. And this is GTRX.
David:
So public apology time. Oh geez. Have we gone that far? Have we jumped the shark? Are we canceled? Well, no, we’re not we are not canceled. I might be canceled. So I it says to my mother, who is a listener, who is the listener. Hey mom, the one hi. Um who would constantly, as I grew up, mix up me and my brother’s names. He would she would call me my brother’s name and my brother me name. And it was always that way. And she would always just stumble over it. And I would always make fun of her. Mom, just get it right. Say David. My name is David. That’s Greg. She’d be like, David, gr, you know, she’d stumble over it. And I’d make fun of her for 43 years. Guess who does that now? Oh, sister, step aside. I do it incessantly. Incessantly. I, if I whether I’m saying nice things or I’m yelling, or I’m or I’m asking questions.
Gavin:
Or looking them directly in the eye, speaking slowly, you still screw the name up. I know that because I do it too.
David:
Yeah, yeah. It must be a parenting thing. So, mom, if you’re out there, um, I’m sorry for making fun of you for 43 years for calling me Greg and my brother Greg David. Um uh, but I’m not gonna stop making fun of you for it.
Gavin:
So uh get over My grandmother would go through the entire family, and included family members that were not even in the house at the time, and the dog, which I’m sure that it sounds like such a cliche, and I’m sure plenty of people did it, but really, uh, she would go through the dog before, and she wasn’t even angry. I mean, of course, she was like in her 70s when this happened, or maybe 80s. Um, so give her some credit. But I used to think that is the most absurd thing, and lo and behold, I do it all the time. All the time, looking directly in their faces.
David:
Yeah. I get the names wrong. I know they’re social security numbers, but their names escape me sometimes. Um, one of my superpowers now also is you know, the evolution of porn. So let’s talk about that.
Gavin:
I’m familiar. So I think I believe it was our last episode that we we’ve talked about porn last episode and this episode.
David:
So that’s yeah, it’s it’s a very porn-heavy month, uh, August. So I was thinking, I was talking to a friend and we were joking about porn. And I was saying, now that I’m in my 40s, I spend more time following porn stars on their personal like regular accounts, like Instagram, Twitter. Sure, they they they they you know release sexy stuff sometimes, but I I just realized I was like, oh yeah, Seth and his husband, they just got chickens, one of them died. Like, why do I know that about my favorite porn star? But it’s a new world, right? It’s a new world where you don’t just like pop into VHS and watch two people go at it. Now I know the personal lives of some of these people. I’m like, oh yeah, Marco, he’s trying to be a chef, so he started this new like Instagram account about his pasta making. It’s really good, but he needs to like why do I know all of this stuff about porn stars?
Gavin:
That is a fascinating aspect of 2023 where you can both enjoy them professionally and get to know them personally.
David:
But I think that’s 2023, but it’s also 43. Because I think 20-year-old David would not give a shit about Marco starting his own pasta making channel.
Gavin:
I mean, as you’re walking Mark, watching Marco and his pasta making channel, do you see like his hand, his grip on the pasta maker or his it’s not sexual at all.
David:
It’s a separate, it’s like his like day job. He’s like, no, I really like making I’m Italian, I really like making pasta, and maybe I’m gonna start a chef thing. And he like talks and there’s like no crossover. It’s not like he’s doing it shirtless. You know, there’s like crossover accounts who are like you know, hot guys doing random things. No, these are just their normal day-to-day accounts. So anyway, it was just something I was like, this is a new aspect of being in my 40s and being a gay man, is that I am interested in the real lives of my favorite porn stars.
Gavin:
Uh I I feel like there is so much to unpack there because I would feel like you don’t want to necessarily know about their personal lives. Don’t you just want to keep them as fantasy people? Or you’re moving, I mean, you’re hey, you’re just I don’t know.
David:
It’s it’s deepening my love. I think it’s deepening my love. It’s a it’s a more deep, it’s a deeper connection between us, us, me, me, and the person who doesn’t know me at all.
Gavin:
You, you and a social media account for sure. Yeah. Well, not related to that in the slightest bit. Uh, something that has been super interesting over the last couple of days is hey, my kids are awesome, obviously. And my daughter is awesome, obviously. Her taste in movies and basically entertainment consumerism is 100% on brand for her age and age group and time. And that is TikTok videos, obviously. Yeah. And I am very consumed with, preoccupied with, concerned about her attention span, all of the negative aspects of social media, obviously. I’m worried about her consumption, like consumption levels of entertainment. I find myself saying to my kids, please put down your devices and go watch a cartoon that will span half an hour, even if it’s terrible. Disney bad shows, at least there will be a beginning, middle, and an end with really bad storylines and bad acting, but at least there’s a beginning, middle, and end, and it just doesn’t go in 15 seconds. Well, I think I might have uh found a unique solution to this problem, which is my kid is getting into war movies. We watched U571, which you might recall was a Matthew McConaughey submarine movie from the mid-90s. She was riveted by it.
David:
Riveted. I can’t believe she could she could get past the aspect ratio. 90s movies are square, right? Right? They were on square TVs.
Gavin:
Well, it’s it’s impressive to me that she has yes, agreed. There’s that that is one factor. And there’s it’s also there’s a graininess, the CGI is no good, etc. But I’m so I’m impressed that she’s looked completely beyond that. So this week, one kid has actually been away at camp. So uh my son is away at camp. So my daughter and I have We’ve been having basically war movies because my daughter’s really intrigued by it. Now it’s morbid, and she’s asking, but she’s asking questions like, wow, is that what it really was like to see somebody’s head blown off kind of thing? Which is morbid, terrible. I don’t think it’s a necessarily age appropriate, and yet at the same time, she’s desensitized to violence, which is bonkers. So the other night I say, Hey, do you want to watch uh All Quiet on the Western Front? Are you familiar with this? I have Netflix. Netflix made All Quiet on the Western Front, which is, I’m sure you know, based upon a classic novel from World War I. It was also, incidentally, I believe the first uh talkie movie, like in the 19 teens. I don’t quote me on that, but there’s something about it, it was a very significant first movie. And um, so anyway, a German company remade All Quiet on the Western Front, which is it’s nothing but trench warfare and people being like their heads being blown up, being chopped to death, being firebombed to death.
David:
It is Gavin, CPS is literally listening to this podcast right now and on their way to your house.
Gavin:
She couldn’t stop watching it. She didn’t seem trend um uh affected by it at all. So, I mean, maybe she’s a psychopath because she went to bed without any nightmares of any kind. She was just curious. She slept, she slept better that night than she’s ever slept in her entire life. But she was totally riveted by like, oh, is this what World War I was like? Is this worse than World War II? Is it where I hear World War II? More people died. It was very compelling. And I was able to stop and lecture her with history lessons, which I as you’re wont to do. Yeah, as I’m wont to do. I was able to be like, oh, by the way, they signed the treaty in the same, uh, in the same car, um, train car as Hitler signed the treaty when France uh capitulated, etc. etc. etc. But at one point she there is a literally a scene where the main character also, the entire movie is in German. She read subtitles of a movie that’s in German. It was bar, it was I was marveling at that. That’s wild. There is one scene where the main character takes a hatchet, he’s German, he chops a Frenchman to death in uh in a in the in the trench, essentially. I mean, it is you know, war survival. We talk so much about survival and what you do in war and et cetera. Were the Germans bad? Well, this German isn’t bad, he’s just trying to survive. Anyway, she chops him. The guy chops the guy with a hatchet for his own survival, let’s be honest. And my daughter turns to me and she goes, Wow, this is like scream, but at another level. I know, I know, great. But what I’m saying is she was really riveted, and I think she had an ex uh, I mean, her mind exploded in a different way as those poor children, those boys fighting on the Western Front’s heads exploded, but not that’s not a good joke.
David:
That’s not a good joke, those poor people. There are monuments dedicated to those people. There are many monuments dedicated to the thing. And we’re on a podcast. They went to war for this country, and we’re on a podcast.
Gavin:
We feel like we’re in the trenches, man. But you watch All Quiet on the Western Front with an 11-year-old girl, and uh man, things get into perspective.
David:
It is amazing that the attention that her intention span even did that because I’m watching my son’s attention span goes. Like he he cannot sit for a half-hour Disney cartoon. He just has to scroll through YouTube, YouTube, YouTube. So that that that is an interesting. That’s it’s glad that she still has that.
Gavin:
Maybe you should introduce war movies with heads exploding, and then we can work on that. I don’t know. It’s been a very interesting aspect this week of uh parenting where she’s riveted by these long ass movies.
David:
So I would do that, but I’m I’m a good parent, so I wouldn’t do that. Um anyway, of course you are. Of course. So um let’s move on to our top three list, shall we? Top three. Do you remember what the topic is? Yes, our topic this week is the top three movies or TV shows from your childhood that don’t hold up.
Gavin:
All right. At number three, a movie that I tried to watch a couple of weeks ago with my daughter is believe it or not, Moulin Rouge. Really? If you go back and try to watch that, it is so schizophrenic. It was really, really exciting back in the day. But the rest of the time, my daughter was just like, what is going on here? Now, maybe it was over her head. I don’t know. I it the music isn’t of her generation and whatnot, but it I watched it and I thought, you know what? It was so revolutionary, but we’ve calmed down a little bit since then. It was not a pleasurable experience watching it. Number two, Greece for oh so many reasons.
David:
And you know, you were telling how Greece was a couple weeks ago.
Gavin:
Yes, intern Timothy. I have talked about Greece, but it hasn’t been in my top three before. But being able to watch it with my daughter, who she’s like, what the hell is going on? This makes no sense whatsoever. And why are these old people pretending to be young? And super misogynistic, and makes no sense. And it doesn’t hold up. Everybody’s 40. Yeah, it doesn’t make any sense. And then number one is the Flintstones. I tried to watch, I thought, oh kiddos, it was in the aspect of let’s talk, watch something that’s half an hour long, beginning, middle, and end. We watched it, it was so blatantly racist and dated. I had to turn it off. I I thought we’re not watching this. So um, there you go. Uh, Moulin Rouge, Greece, Flintstones.
David:
How about you? So, and number three for me, Billy Madison. I remember in like, what was it, high school? That was like the most quotable, quote unquote, funniest movie of all time. I can still quote every fucking line and I would say the quotes and people would laugh. You watch that now. It is sans funny. It is the most unfunny, stupid, makes no sense movie. So, number three, Billy Madison. Uh, number two, it’s a great movie, but totally inappropriate for children. Who framed Roger Rabbit? Oh, oh, we haven’t done that. The movie is violent and sexual to the point of like, oh, like this is for grown-ups. Like the there are cartoon characters in it who are like bludgeoning each other to death. And there’s like sex and like it, yeah, it it’s it’s a lot of things.
Gavin:
It sounds a lot like All Quiet on the Western Front with the Windows.
David:
Yeah, which you are showing to your wicked eyes. I’d like to watch. Uh, and number one for me, the the TV show that uh under no circumstances should I or any children have ever watched, Ren and Stenpy. Oh did you ever watch that show?
Gavin:
Yes, I did, but I was also not a child.
David:
Is a fucking meth-induced psychotic dream. It is so messed up and dark. And I I I recently watched it back because somebody was talking about it, and I was like, oh yeah, under no circumstances should I have ever watch this. So that does not hold up. All right, yeah. So next week, we are gonna do our top three things that can get off your lawn.
unknown:
All right.
Gavin:
Top three three, top three things that can just get off my fucking lawn. Get off my lawn. Alrighty. Our next guest entirely defines a multi-hyphenate. He’s a writer, he’s a thirst trap maker, he’s an adventure seeker, he’s a comic book nerd, he’s also a comic book celebrity, former sexually biological breeder, wow, graphic novel author, podcaster, non-practicing Mormon, and of course, father of two. Please welcome to the podcast, Chad Anderson. Chad, how have your kids driven you bananas today?
SPEAKER_02:
You know, uh my my youngest just turned 12 yesterday. And they woke up at 1 a.m. and came into my room. That still happens? Oh god. Shook me awake and said, Dad, I’m sorry to wake you up, but I can’t sleep. And I said, Okay, go lay back down then. And they did and slept the rest of the night, and I was up for like two hours.
Gavin:
Because you’re no longer in your 20s, and yeah, once you’re up at one in the morning, you’re your mind starts going and you don’t stop.
SPEAKER_02:
Sleep is elusive, man, and it’s a hundred fucking degrees outside.
David:
And also, don’t drag me into your bullshit. If you can’t sleep, you can’t sleep. Don’t make me not sleep. Go read a fucking book. Go read a fucking book.
Gavin:
Well, you know what? Before we start talking about really sexy comic books and comic book characters and whatnot, I think one of the most endearing things about your parenting journey that I’ve seen on Instagram is actually is I think you have a monthly adventure theme going with your kids, right? Like this month we’re gonna do this adventure. Tell us about that to make us better parents, and then let’s talk about skin tight lycra superheroes. You know, I uh I have my kids 50%.
SPEAKER_02:
So they’re with me half the time. And I learned early on in my parenting, I I was married and had kids. I came out when my ex-wife was pregnant with our second. So I’ve been a single dad for a long time. I’ve been with while pregnant.
Gavin:
We will be coming back to the while pregnant part for sure.
SPEAKER_02:
Wow. But I learned a long time ago, whenever I buy my kids gifts for birthdays or Christmas, they’re getting kind of the same thing in both households, right? And so instead of like getting toys and books, I’ve always been about experiences or like family adventures. This year, my gift for the family for Christmas is we’re doing a giant family activity once a month. Uh so we’re doing it, we’ve done the orchestra and we’ve done uh a dance recital, and we just did an escape room. So it’s just kind of a different adventure. It’s like a night out for the family with like new experiences being had. Uh, and it’s just a really fun way to create memories rather than acquire possessions. Not that they don’t have plenty of possessions. I think I think my youngest has like 700 plushies in their room.
David:
But that’s the thing, right? It’s like it’s it’s both better, right? The experience is gonna create a lasting memory that the the squishmallows won’t. But also, it’s a trick to get shit out of your house. It’s like when people have a birthday and like, what does he want? And he’d be like, he wants his mortgage paid, or he wants, you know, a coloring book that once it’s colored, it goes in the fucking garbage. He doesn’t want plastic anything.
SPEAKER_02:
I mean, sometimes it’s a colossal failure. A few years ago, I got my family a trip to Puerto Rico, and we got there and had this tiny resort hotel room, and then all four of us got COVID. Oh it was a nightmare. Mexican COVID.
David:
That sounds great.
Gavin:
It was a real bad. But when you um proposed like at Christmas time, is it a like I’m gonna give you a coupon book?
SPEAKER_02:
And and I presented the are you talking about this year, like the the monthly events? I’m just planning them month to month. Like uh so I have the August thing planned now since it’s July.
David:
Technically, right now, Chad, it is August 23rd. Did you not know that? Because that’s when this episode comes out. Come on, Chad. What did you do yesterday? So how 22nd? How was the August adventure? But wait, I I get I want to go back. Like you came out. Tell tell us how you came out because the fact that you came out while your ex-wife was pregnant is like that’s like soap level drama.
Gavin:
Like or or comic book level drama, frankly.
SPEAKER_02:
There’s a lot of soap opera to my story. Uh I’ll I’ll tell the very quick version, although if you have any questions, I’m happy to go there. I literally wrote a book about my life. And you wrote a book? And tell us about that book and where can people find your book? I have a book called Gay Mormon Dad. It’s available just on Amazon at this point, I think. It’s been out for about five years. Uh so I grew up in a super religious Mormon family with a lot of kids, uh, where being gay just wasn’t an option. Uh, I had my first kiss with the woman I ended up marrying when I was 27 on the night that I told her I was gay. And then we got married. David is the literal definition of gagged. Gagged. We got married uh a few months later. This is this is what Mormons do, right?
David:
Like there’s a ton of- I mean, that’s such a romantic way to propose to somebody, be like, I’m gay when I get married. This is not an un but this is not an uncommon story. I worked a lot in Salt Lake City and met a lot of Mormons. I know a lot of Mormons whose husband was like, oh yeah, I’m gay, and they’re like, Yeah. Yeah, so number one, Mormons create a lot of kids.
SPEAKER_02:
Number two, more Utah has the highest percentage of gay parents in the country because we have a lot of men and women who have kids before coming out. But third, I’m not from Utah. I’m from Missouri, which is a totally different uh system. I moved here after coming out. Uh, but but yeah, so I was uh I was living like the repressed, you know, quiet, closeted life for a while, and I wasn’t happy. And I went on a business trip and ended up kissing a guy, and it was like the best experience of my life. So I came home and came out. And she just happened to be pregnant with our segment at the time, and it was pretty dramatic for a while, but life’s really good now.
Gavin:
Good. Well, obviously, you’re where everybody needs to be to find their joy and happiness. And authenticity.
David:
I’m happy. Yeah. It’s it’s hard to explain to some people, straight people, really, who’ve never had to like pretend to be one sexuality and not another. What like the feeling the first time you do something romantic? It could be a kiss, it could be sex, it could be even hand holding with the gender that you are attracted to, like earnestly, there is that just like the whole world aligns, and you go, Oh, yeah. This is like it just like overwhelms you versus like there’s this like almost intellectual part of you that was like, I’m married to a woman, I have sex with a woman, and then all of a sudden, like you go, oh. And that’s probably what you felt, right? It was like, oh, this is right. I was 32 when that happened.
SPEAKER_02:
I’m 44 now. So uh the night that night I actually wrote a poem on that type of gay.
SPEAKER_03:
Yes, you are.
SPEAKER_02:
I talked about it. Uh I talked about like feeling like I was coming up for oxygen for the first time. And like, how can you go back to not breathing again after this? It it sounds very dramatic, but it’s a it’s a pretty big deal.
Gavin:
Those parts of you are especially when you are suddenly able to find self-expression that you’ve never been free to have, and you need to it it might be hyperbolic, it might be over-romanticized, but whatever. You were living your truth. And but guess what, Chad? You’re not gonna get your own planet now.
SPEAKER_02:
How do you feel about that? My little one, my little one likes to make jokey comic strips about like old religious beliefs, which is funny. And they they did one about uh about like religious people getting a planet the other day, and it wasn’t that great. Like the planet they ended up on wasn’t it wasn’t real nice.
Gavin:
Your kids are not growing up Mormon then, correct.
SPEAKER_02:
Yeah, yeah. No, my ex-wife and I both left Mormonism, so they’re just growing up just liberal, happy, queer little kids. They’re they’re great.
David:
For those of you listening who don’t who think I’m just like making up bullshit, no, no, no. Like the Mormons, like if you’re a good Mormon, you are rewarded with your own planet uh in the afterlife. And I only learned that because I was working in Salt Lake City and I went to the church, and I think I went to see the tabernacle, but like, you know, they let you walk in that like first room with all the planets. And when I was learning about it, I was like, and I think under the banner of heaven also uh deals with this, but but but like I was like, no, no, no, but that’s real. They’re like, Yeah, you get your own plan, isn’t that cool?
SPEAKER_02:
Every religion has like an an element of like the supernatural to it in their belief structure, and that’s part of Mormonism. Yeah, if you’re good enough, you’ll you’ll advance to that level.
David:
It’s like a it’s a I hope it’s a good planet, like a gas planet. Can you imagine like arriving to a gas planet, be like, oh fuck, I just know where to stand. We’re already a gas planet.
Gavin:
Um, and so tell us um what is the gayest thing about comic books?
SPEAKER_02:
You know, I I have a podcast called Greymalkin Lane that I produce professionally. I interview comic book professionals and we analyze X-Men comics. X-Men comics in particular are about the disenfranchised, people who’ve been cast out by society. If you’re a mutant, you don’t choose to be a mutant, you gotta leave and like have a found family. And it’s like very much the queer allegory. The enemies they fight are those that are trying to destroy their happiness or who say you shouldn’t be different. Uh, but in the last like 10 years, even the X-Men, which have always been super queer, are very, very queer. There’s queer creators writing, there’s a lot of trans and gay characters now, a lot of non-binary characters. So it’s gayer than ever. There’s also it’s really trendy to have gay, you know, there’s gay supermen and gay Batman and gay everything now.
Gavin:
It’s pretty great. So do gay Superman and gay Batman live in alternate, like parallel universes?
SPEAKER_02:
No, they’re like other people. There, it’s like it’s not Clark Kent. It’s like it’s like Clark Kent’s nephew or something, right?
Gavin:
So there’s like who takes over for but Clark Kent can’t die, right?
SPEAKER_02:
So, but it’s just like Clark Kent’s nephew lives in a there’s another there’s like four Spider-Man characters running around, and they all use the name Spider-Man, right? It’s just different versions of the same here.
David:
Also, now my brain is like going crazy. I’m like, okay, so Batman and Robin, if they’re gay, like like who’s the top and who’s the bottom? Everything, everyone naturally would say Batman’s the top. I actually think Batman is like one of those like muscle bottoms, and Robin is one of those like short tops. I like my brain is like going crazy, but wait, I think the gayest part about comic books is the drawing of the leg muscles. Sure. Nobody has those legs except for gay fan. That’s a gay fantasy. Like, like to me, that is the gayest part of comic books.
SPEAKER_02:
Everybody has a sexual awakening. We all, when we are kids, crush on uh cartoon characters and comic book characters. Uh I crushed so hard on like Aladdin growing up, right? Which is like a very common thing. Uh I I’ve talked to like either 90s. Those early 90s abs. Those early 90s abs were really good with his vest. I’ve talked to a lot of people who like had a crush on Disney’s Robin Hood, which is hilarious because he’s a fox, right? But like we we have crushes on Batman, we have crushes on different characters. It’s very normal, like that be part of our sexual awakening.
David:
The dad from Cocoa Melon, I I am so hot for him. And yeah, there’s a there’s a there’s a whole episode at the beach, and I’m like, uh I’m watching it by myself, basically. The dad from uh the dad from Disney’s Inside Out, like the mustache daddy.
SPEAKER_02:
Yeah, there’s all there’s all cleans from these places.
Gavin:
Oh yeah. So many. Now wait a minute. It fully exposing um the fact that David and I are complete virgins in the comic book world, uh, we’re you’re already going, you could go off, I’m sure, in so many different tangents for us. Um, but we we’re conflating suddenly Batman with X-Men with the dad from um Inside Out. But you uh do you embrace all levels of animated anybody, whether it’s um drawn or in a movie?
SPEAKER_02:
I love storytellers, man. And when you when you put this in the queer community, what is a superhero if not a drag queen? You’re putting on your tightest, best like cinch muscle suit, and you’re going out to punch people and looking fabulous while doing it, right? Women are in heels with like a bikini with a boob window, and guys are like, you know, like it’s it’s all drag. The whole thing is drag.
Gavin:
And did you know this before 2011? Like as a little kid, were you engaging in your own like uh sexual fantasies watching this and feeling connected to the campiness of it?
SPEAKER_02:
Or I mean as a little kid I had crushes, but when I was like 13 or 14 and discovered like masturbation, I I for sure had fantasies about some superheroes or even about like characters in sitcoms that I was watching, right? Like that was a very normal thing to like. I have like a very I’m a storyteller, so I have like a very bright, vibrant, like storytelling reality in my head where I wouldn’t just go jerk off, I’d like think of the story and like here’s how it happened. And like my algebra teacher suddenly there, because he was really hot, and that was fine.
David:
And also Ted from Hey Dude, and like all of a sudden, all these characters start. There’s like this weird middle room where everyone just joins, and you’re like, hi, everybody.
SPEAKER_02:
I just did an episode of my show about anthropomorphism, which is like our need to like put animals and robots, like endow them with human characteristics, and then we become fascinated with the way they experience grief, or like, ooh, look, this sexy robot now wants to like fuck humans. And like we, as humans, we love these kinds of stories. We do it to ourselves all the time. That’s everything from Star Trek on is is just that.
Gavin:
So I was listening to one of your episodes recently, and uh the the person that you had on who is probably famous. I mean, it might have been, I don’t know. The Jennifer Aniston of uh comic books was on. I love that that was who you picked out for for the sorry, I know I was A, so old and B so basic. But this person said that they’ve been writing a comic book that’s that he the this person, um, I believe he uh he it was a man, he said he used to be working in like super sci-fi futuristic stuff, and now he’s in the fantasy world, and he has this character that brings together two unicorns and takes their horns or something, and then there’s a m combo of a wolf deer animal type that they team up with an eyeball. And nobody in your podcast laughed when he made the description. Oh yeah, right, right, okay.
SPEAKER_02:
And I’m like You’re talking about Marcus Landasso and Jason Muir, who they’re both straight, but they’re great friends, great allies. And they’re doing a comic book called By the Horns, which is like a like feminist power fantasy. It’s fantastic, and yeah, there’s a there’s a talking eyeball named Evelyn in it. It’s fantastic.
Gavin:
It’s a great book. And there’s no irony whatsoever. You just say, uh-huh, the eyeball. Evelyn Evelyn, right. Evelyn, the eyeball.
SPEAKER_02:
Not only that, but I could list I could list like 15 other eyeball-related characters from comics that I know about.
David:
I mean, I remember all real monsters had like that monster with like holding like her own eyeballs.
SPEAKER_02:
Um people covered in eyes, people with eyeballs for heads. Yeah, it’s just a very normal thing when you read a lot of comic books.
Gavin:
Yeah, clearly. Well, what parenting skills have you learned from comic books?
SPEAKER_02:
Uh, you know, comic is all about storytelling and conflict building and resolution, and there’s all kinds of comics, right? If you’re comparing Batman to Captain America, those are very different types. But one of the things I’ve really learned is I make a lot of room for the things in my life that I love. And I’m a better dad when I’m a really balanced dad. So I I work my day job is as a therapist, which is very serious. And then I get to do these professional interviews and like lose myself in storytelling and narrative tropes. And my kids get invested and get involved, and I write stories with them, and we teach them about storytelling. Uh, and it’s it’s it’s just it’s it’s a powerful way to connect because when they see me happy, I’m teaching them to be happy. It’s the old RuPaul thing, you know, uh, how can you love someone else if you if you can’t love yourself first? Kind of thing. I’m a better dad when I’m doing things that I love. Well said.
David:
We say that all the time is like if if you are a parent only, you’re not a good parent. Like you your kids need to look at a full human being uh as a role model in whatever ways that is, whether it’s drawing leg muscles or not.
SPEAKER_02:
In therapy with my clients, I’m always emphasizing how we have to make room for the light and the shadow, and things are complicated. So the example I often use is I love my kids, they are amazing. And oh my god, they drive me nuts. Like, go away sometimes and leave me alone. Sometimes I take vacations with my family, sometimes with my husband, and sometimes by myself. I’m like, everybody leave me alone. I need a weekend away. I will talk to you on the phone. And the uh the 50-50 custody thing’s pretty nice because I get a lot of time with them, but also a lot of time away. And I think all of us are pretty grateful for that. It’s a good way to do it.
David:
And you get to miss them a little bit, which is nice. So you’re wait, you’re a professional therapist. Can you fix Gavin? I don’t know, I don’t know what level you’re at, but that’s a it’s a big ask.
SPEAKER_02:
My therapy, I have a I have a sign hanging in my living room that says I’m not your therapist. So when I’m in my office with the door closed, I I’m your therapist. But outside of that, I don’t do it.
Gavin:
Also, throwing your friends under the bus to saying that they need therapy. He has limits, limits, baby, limits.
SPEAKER_02:
I had a I had an aunt, uh, she’s still alive, but I she was a practicing nurse for years. And we’d be like at the dinner table, and someone would come up and like pull their pants down and be like, Can you look at this mole and tell me if it’s infected? And that’s how I feel as a therapist alone. That was a sexy story until you mentioned mold. Okay. So I’d be like on a date and you meet someone and they’re like, So what do you do? And I’m like, I’m a therapist. And the third thing they say to me is like, my brother committed suicide. Do you think that I’m messed up? And I’m like, I had just met you.
David:
Like, this is not but I bet there’s some guys who would go on a date with somebody and hear the therapist and feel defensive about that. Like, as if like you have this weird, like judgmental, like in that they can’t, like, and they’re like, you know what? I I don’t I want to hide some shit.
Gavin:
I don’t want this to be still know everything, and that you never turn it off either, that you’re always analyzing people.
SPEAKER_02:
I mean, uh, with my answer to that, uh, people will call me intimidating because of this. They’re like, You’re we we never know what you’re thinking. And I’m like, girl, just like be with me. Like, this is the I’m just a person, but I am a therapist, even when I’m not your therapist. Like, I still read energy and I get worried about people and I’m empathic. I it’s not like you turn it on or off, but I’m not a therapist when I’m not working either, you know? It’s like storytelling. Like, I’m always looking for stories, but I’m not writing stories all the time. But you do write. You used to write for Marvel, right? Yeah, yeah. I’ve actually written a bunch of things. Uh so I used to write Marvel handbooks. Uh, I’ve published my own graphic novel called The Mushroom Murders. I’ve also made a documentary called Dog Valley that I wrote and produced. It’s it’s nonfiction, but I put it all together and was behind the camera for 200 hours making it, you know. Uh so yeah, the podcast is kind of the newest version of that, and I’m writing content for my show all the time while also working on original graphic novel and novel scripts. So, yeah, it’s a huge part of me. So, but but what are you doing with all your free time?
David:
It sounds like you’re not doing much. So this. This, right? Oh yeah, thank you. So sorry, Chad. That’s an awful waste of your time.
SPEAKER_02:
No, no, no. I don’t mean this interview. I mean uh writing and but like my podcast and my writing is my free time. That’s what I do with it. Because my my therapist stuff is my day job. The rest is the stuff I love on the side, you know.
David:
So you came out. What how old were you when you came out? 32. So 32. So I always say when people come out later in life that they have to kind of go through adolescence again. And so sometimes that can be a real fucking messy. Were you a messy new gay at 32?
SPEAKER_02:
You know, because I came out with kids, I had a toddler and an infant. There was something about that experience that was really hard the first few years, but because of that, I couldn’t go wild, I couldn’t go crazy. I had to provide and still be home with my kids. So they were with me 50%. So one night would be like out dancing and making out with a guy at the club, and the next would be like rocking my babies to sleep, right? So I think it kept me kind of grounded.
Gavin:
That’s a fantastic balance. A fantastic balance.
SPEAKER_02:
It’s easier now that the kids are older to explore the queer side of me in ways. I have like a really strong group of friends. I travel. My husband and I do a lot of uh queer activities together. So it’s nice to have room for that. But because of that grounding experience, I didn’t, I never feel like I had hit like the really hard emotional adolescent thing that a lot of gays go through.
David:
Oh my god. I’ve seen it with so many people in my uh inner circles who come out in their you know late 30s, early 40s, and it’s like some part of me just wants to like back away for a year and be like, you just just just burn everything down real quick.
SPEAKER_02:
Yeah, yeah. You see like someone who has like a medical practice and five children who are like crying because the 20-year-old they went out with once didn’t call them back, or or they still hate date people even though they’re fucking other guys all the time. Like people do not know. That’s a good one stuff, you know?
Gavin:
Yeah. You and that’s particularly well, I mean, is that unique to where you practice in Utah?
SPEAKER_02:
Sure. Yeah, yeah. As a therapist, I specialize in three areas. I specialize with people just coming out, I specialize with people just navigating the transgender journey. And then I work a lot with the polyamorous and kink sexual communities in town as a therapist. Wow, you went from zero to 60. The common the common thing with all of those is you have a lot of people who grew up in like very repressed sexual religious environments who are now exploring themselves. And I’m kind of known as like the safe guy to talk to. So just wherever you come in with, I’m just here to help. You know, it’s uh it’s it’s a good space to occupy.
Gavin:
So now your kids are at a pretty critical age in their development, obviously. They’re both in puberty. In fact, your 14-year-old is, I mean, probably like getting through puberty. And um, I’m curious to know how what kind of a world of crushes and sexual awakening do you provide for them? And or are they like, dad, I don’t want to talk about sex, leave me alone, stop being such a therapist.
SPEAKER_02:
Ew, gross. My kids are 14 and 12. My oldest has come out as gay. He came out at 12. And my youngest uses he, they pronouns. So we try to use they mostly in the home because they use he mostly in public. And they like to put on blankets as wigs and dance around as drag queens sometimes. And we have friends over, they know trans and queer and drag queen friends of ours, and we go to drag bingo, and being queer is a huge part of their life, but we’ve never told them anything about who they are except we love you for whoever you are. So, you know, when uh when we’re watching RuPaul, we got to send them out of the room sometimes because the language or the sexual humor get bad, but then we invite them back to watch the lip synks and the dance offs, you know? Uh so they’ve always just known, they’ve always known that queerness is just a part of it. We go to the Pride Parades, they have uh they have just a very accepting, loving environment and they feel safe to be themselves. So I’m providing for them what I did not have as a kid, which is like the biggest honor in my life. When my when my now when when my now 14-year-old was 12, we caught him in the aisle at a at a store looking at all the the pictures of the shirtless men on the underwear packages, which is something we all know.
David:
What a gay rite of passage. What I would stand in the like the Macy’s underwear section, shopping for underwear, just like entranced, just yeah, and uh he acted embarrassed.
SPEAKER_02:
And I was like, Oh, if you’re enjoying yourself, keep looking. That’s fine. And later, when we were talking at home, he’s like, uh, so sometimes I look at boys, and I’m that’s I said that’s fine. He goes, I might still be straight though. So, buddy, if you were straight, you probably would be looking at the pictures of the women in their bras. And his response literally was, oh no, I would never do that. Coming out for him came out pretty like pretty easily. But he’s also a huge feminist, you know, they’re they’re great kids.
David:
What a what a I mean the kids are getting we say this all the time on the show. Like the kids have fucking gotten it right now. Like now it is a space where if you aren’t, if you if you are heteronormative, you’re kind of on the outskirts, which listen, like nobody wants to be outcast. But the fact that there’s just room to like pretend, even if you’re pretending to be queer through those informative years of like middle and high school, and then you’re like, you know, I’m actually straight, like what a safe space for the real kids, the real trans kids, the real gay kids to just be themselves. And even if your kids end up being straight or whatever they end up being, they’re in a state of the world. Or just non-labeled and get to live and love however they want. As long as they’re not Republicans, they can be whoever they want.
SPEAKER_02:
It’s a beautiful thing, but it’s also accompanied by fascism and global warming and like anti-trans and anti-gay shit all over the place. So they’re having normal childhoods, but it’s hard to be gay already when you have a normal childhood. What we’re removing is the childhood trauma related to being gay in your own family. They’re still left with all the political shit.
David:
Well, we need to make sure there’s some childhood trauma so they become funny. That’s important.
unknown:
Yeah.
Gavin:
Um, and you are uh remind me though, you are in Salt Lake City, right? Yep. I live right here in Salt Lake.
David:
I love Salt Lake City.
Gavin:
There um and their communities, their schools, everybody is um open and welcoming, or do they ever have to do they ever feel unsafe or closeted?
SPEAKER_02:
Yeah, you know, my kids are pretty they’re they’re pretty quiet about their own stuff. So they go to a charter school. The charter school celebrates pride. It’s like very supportive, but I don’t think my kids have come out to their classes. It’s like a thing that they keep to themselves and they get to tell who they want. Uh, we feel pretty safe in Salt Lake for the most part. However, when we travel to visit family, I’ve got a bunch of family in southern Idaho as an example. My kids will visibly state, like, ooh, I don’t think I should wear my rainbow shirt here. Or, you know, if my husband and I are holding hands, there’s like a discomfort because it’s drawing eyes. So they still notice that kind of thing. But here in Salt Lake, we’re pretty, we we keep ourselves in a community that’s pretty supportive and affirming.
David:
And Salt Lake City is like pretty literal, the city itself. It’s just right when you get to the outskirts and Provo and everything, it starts to get real Mormonny and real religious.
SPEAKER_02:
But even, yeah, but even Provo’s pretty gay these days. I mean, there’s still a lot of oppression. Salt Lake’s got Harvey Milk Boulevard down the center of town, you know? It’s pretty gay here. Damn.
David:
I remember working in Salt Lake City a couple of times. I worked at the Pioneer Theater um right on campus, and I loved it. And one of my favorite things is like getting your membership card to the bars so you could then drink. Which is that still a thing? You have to get a membership card. No, no, no, no.
SPEAKER_02:
That’s not that’s not been a thing for many years. Uh, but I have heard those stories, absolutely. That was that was over in 1967, David.
David:
No, no, no. I was there in 2008 or 2007, it was still a thing. But yeah.
SPEAKER_02:
Yeah, I moved here in 2011 and that had been stopped before then. So I don’t know when it ended, but it was done before 2011.
Gavin:
So, Chad, for our listeners who might be card carrying gay men who have never been with a woman, but they might be just a little, you know, cute. Curious, by curious, what words of wisdom would you have for them uh indulging those fantasies? Okay, then.
SPEAKER_02:
You know, life is short. Make room for whatever animal energy you have got. If you are into women and you are into whatever you are into, find room for it. There is entire communities out there of people who celebrate all kinds of kinks and interests. Uh, for me, being with a woman was not something I’m really wired for, but I celebrate women and I celebrate women’s sexuality. Uh, I think I think you gotta find room and figure out what it is that you love in safe consensual ways. And there’s a big, wide, giant world of kinks out there to explore, and we’ve all got them.
David:
Do you see how elegant and dodgy that answer was, Gaven? He was I mean, you should have one for office, Chad. That was fucking incredible.
Gavin:
Also, you are elevating every aspect of the intellectual abilities that we have. Uh, absolutely. So, okay. Bringing it in here for a landing, and you have been absolutely fantastic. What if we if you are a complete comic book version, what should you go out and explore?
SPEAKER_02:
Oh, goodness, that’s a hard question to answer. There’s a there’s a lot of really good comics being produced. Uh, my my show focuses on the 1960s X-Men, which is kind of like going back to season one of Star Trek. We’re like starting from the beginning. That’s not the best place to begin because they’re so campy and silly. Uh, you know, there’s a reason. If you like X-Men, there’s a recent book from like 2018 called House of X, Powers of X, which uh launches a new era. Mutants who, again, it’s like the queer allegory, have formed their own nation. They’re saying, you know, fuck humans. We’re done trying to live by your standards. We are our own people now. That’s a great place to begin. But there’s a lot of really amazing starting points out there. Uh one of my really there’s a lot of queer books out there that are really incredible. Uh, The Magic Fish is one of my favorite books. Go look up The Magic Fish. Uh, there’s a lot of really incredible queer storytelling for kids and adults. I can give a long list.
Gavin:
I’m sure. I’m sure you have a long list, no doubt. Well, we will explore those, but everybody out there should definitely take a peek at uh Chad’s book that he wrote. Again, it’s called The Gay Mormon Dad. You can find it on the Gay Mormon Dad. And also, also check out your podcast, Gray Malkin Lane, which I’m proud to know. Well, I in a little bit of digging uh in preparation for our talk, I realized that that’s where that’s the street that the X-Men live on, right?
SPEAKER_02:
Yeah, it represents the idea of found family. You leave the people behind that you don’t fit with and you go to your new home and find the people you love. So Gray Malkin Lane is meant to represent the concept of found family in this fictional universe. It’s a lot of fun. And the and the podcast is super queer. We have a lot of fun. Chad, welcome to the Gatriarchs family.
Gavin:
Thank you for joining us.
David:
Thank you, Chad.
SPEAKER_02:
So glad to meet you guys. Thank you.
David:
So something great this week for me. Uh I was thinking about Tim Gunn. We’ve been watching this uh show that he’s on uh called Making the Cut, which is basically Project Runway, but he’s like, fuck you guys. Um and I was just thinking about Tim Gunn in general. I know there’s like uh he’s if you don’t know who he is, he’s a um he teaches, I think, at uh a uh fashion school, but he’s yeah, he used to be one of the hosts of Project Runway, and now he has a show with Heidi Klum called Making the Cut, and he’s just a fucking national treasure. He’s so kind, yeah, he’s so smart, he’s warm, he’s here to spread positivity and joy. He is, which you’re so gay for. You’re so gay for that stuff.
Gavin:
I also gay gratitude, positivity, and joy.
David:
Oh man, it’s your own, it’s your porn, it’s your corn hub. But here’s the thing: he is older, and it it is a trap in the arts, and you know this, that like older people tend to start going, well, it was better when I was blank, right? Like there’s this like weird trap you get into. He does not, people show him the most fucked up fashions you’ve ever seen in your life that are so ugly, and he’s always like, hmm, that’s really interesting. Like he’s he’s so open-minded, but he’s so kind, he’s so clearly there for the artists and the designers and to make them better. And I just saw this like TikTok clip of him talking about some of the fucked up contracts that Project Runway used to give their artists, where they were like, it was really fucked up. And he was like, I left the show because of that, and I just so appreciate that. So, Tim Gunn, if you’re out there, we fucking love you. That’s something great. You are something great, Tim Gunn.
Gavin:
So I was camping this weekend with my kid as mother dads. I know, I mean, I’m I know sometimes I really butch it up, and we um it was really fun because it was fun to see it was four boys and uh and all dads, and we had a really great dynamic. It was very fun, and the boys were just living their best lives of breaking shit and taking um little uh um hatchets and learning how to chop wood actually properly, because I didn’t realize I had been chopping wood wrong for my entire life.
David:
You’ve been sucking it the whole time.
Gavin:
That you need to go from angles, alternate angles. Anyway, they learned a lot um and about just like I don’t know, being out there and being safe with tools and all the things, and it was just fun to see them in um of any kids. You just want to see them just living their best independence and discovering things themselves and working alongside each other. It was it was really fun. It was um it was something great, something butch and scout-like and great, and I loved it. And that’s our show. If you have any comments, suggestions, or general compliments, you can email us at gatriarchspodcast at gmail.com. And also don’t forget to sign up for our newsletter. You can find the link in our bio on Instagram.
David:
You can also DM us on Instagram. We are at Gatriarchspodcast. On the internet, David is at DavidFM BaughnEverywhere, and Gavin is at GavinLodge on Cornhub. Please leave us a glowing five-star review wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks. And we’ll Google you next time on another episode of Gatriarchs.