Full Transcript
Yeah, I went and worked for the Gore campaign in nineteen in 2000 and I don’t work on it, but it’s the same business. Fuck off. And this is day three architect.
David:
So my son for a couple of weeks has been itching his butt in a way where I keep saying to him, Hey, like, what are you doing? He’s like, My butt itches. I’m like, Do you want diaper cream? He’s like, no, that’s for babies. I’m like, well, let me look at your butt. He’s like, no. So I’m like, fine, whatever. So this is how it goes for a couple of weeks. So finally, one night in the middle of the night, Emmett comes to our room and he’s crying. He’s like, my butt hurts so bad. And I’m like, what is going on with your butt? So I like, I like, I there’s nothing on his butt, but he’s like scratching it. So I like send him to bed, he goes back to sleep. And in the morning, I’m like, I need to Google this. So I Google this, and Google tells me, oh, your son probably has worms in his butthole. And what those are are little white filamented-looking things sticking out of his butthole that wiggle and move. And the internet tells me I need to get a flashlight, peel open his butt, and look at it at night and see if I can see worms coming out of my son’s butthole. And and that is when I said I’m done with parenting. I’m that’s it. I’m I’ve reached the limit of what I’m capable of doing. And it is not to stare at my my three-year-old’s butthole in the middle of the night with a flashlight to see if I could see wiggling worms coming out of it.
Gavin:
Listen, David, you have been looking. I th I I really think I know that you hang on every word and every um reaction I give you. And I think that you were waiting for me to be surprised by anything that you just said.
David:
Just wait. Just wait, Gavin. Just wait. So the next day, I’m like, we’re going to urgent care, we’re going to the, you know, the doctor. There’s no way I’m gonna, because this is of course this is Sunday. By the way, my kid only gets sick on Sundays when the pediatrician is not open. Only day of the week. Anyway. Of course. So the morning we before we go to the pediatrician, I’m like, let me look at your butt. And I notice above his butt hole, excuse me for being crass, is like a little red sore. Like it looks like a sore. And I’m like, oh, that must be what he’s scratching. I wonder if he like cut it, it’s a cut, it’s something. So we go to the pediatrician and we say, Hey, this is what’s been happening. He’s been very itchy, he has this little sore above his butt. And the first words out of her mouth was, that’s probably strep. I said, like strep throat. She said, Yeah. But strep butt. She said, If you’re if you put your fingers in your mouth, which my my son is a finger sucker, if you put your fingers in your mouth and then you scratch your butt, you can get strep throat of your butthole. So she took a strep test and like did it over the area and it was positive, Gavin. My son had strep of the butthole.
Gavin:
That I did not know. So I did not know that either.
David:
Now, obviously, you can put the pieces together. What happened? Now everyone in the house has strep throat. One of us has a strep butthole.
Gavin:
Wait, does he have strep throat then?
David:
So what had happened was he had strep throat, he got us all sick, but he was like scratching his butt with his streppy fingers and created this like little thing. Yes. And luckily, the the the doctor was super nice super nice, and she was like, Oh yeah, this is so common. And I was like, I’m 43. I have never heard of this in my entire life.
Gavin:
Neither have I. I’m way younger than you are, and I have never and I have just you wait. I I have older kids. I’ve never heard of strep butt.
David:
Strep butt, yeah. And guess what? It’s coming for you. So, anyway, so that was my week, which was really exciting. And then I just my last part of my little bit of rant, um, and we’re we’re beyond buttholes now for those of you who have been holding your breath. Um, is that so we so I got antibiotics, everyone like the adults in the audit in the house got antibiotics and their little pills, like we’ve done that before. And the kids get like a liquid, right? And and so what really fucking pisses me off is that so my daughter, who’s one, has this, my son has it, um, and you know, let’s say it’s five milligrams per time you get it, right? And they’re like, take it, let’s say 10 times. I’m just doing really rough math. So that’s a total of 50 milliliters. The prescription will be for like 50 or 55 milliliters. I’m like, you motherfuckers have never had to give a child medicine, which they especially the baby, will spit out or she’ll block her mouth or whatever. I need backup to have to do refills to give her the five milliliters two times. So, all of those doctors out there, when you’re prescribing a liquid medicine for somebody under the age of four, can you give us a little bit of fucking wiggle room so I can give my son the medicine he needs to cure his streppy butthole?
Gavin:
I’m glad that you’ve gotten back into parenting um with the strep buttons, and but the pinworms, I’m telling you, it uh I a friend of mine uh told me a couple of years ago it went through her entire family. Oh, God mom, dad, three children. They went to the doctor. It was actually an easy treatment. It wasn’t that big a deal. There were it wasn’t flashlights in the middle of the night, uh, luckily. But she said that the doctor said, Listen, I’m glad you’ve got this. Because this is science. This is what human beings are supposed to be. We’re not supposed to be walking around completely sanitized, because if we do, strep is going to kill us. So luckily, strep hasn’t killed you and your family. But the fact is, no, nobody wants to have white worms in their butts by any stretch of the imagination.
David:
The idea of feeling a wiggling worm in my butthole makes me want to walk into traffic. Like, I cannot explain to you. The idea of like the the uh crawling out, crawling out, little TV things, crawling out. I’m done. You’re done with parenting. I’m done with parenting. It’s it. I can’t do it anymore. So anyway, that was my week, Gavin. How was your week?
Gavin:
Well, okay, I you’re hopefully you’re not gonna hear me talk about this too much because everybody’s gonna get really sick of it. But I am solo dadding right now, um, which is great because my partner is super, super lucky. He is a musical composer and he gets to he gets to fly to London for a month to work on a show, which is awesome. And um, but we’ve done this before, but it’s a lot of work. And the last time we did it, my kids, all I had to do was basically keep them alive and fed because they were much, much, much younger. And now I have to like monitor homework and I have to deal with social um issues going on at middle school and whatnot. And it’s um, I, you know, it is what it is. I I all hats off, of course, to anybody who’s doing this um single-handedly because it is tough. So anyway, but um also all I ever hear is complaints from my kids, also. There nothing’s ever good enough, nothing’s ever hot enough or cold enough or tasty enough, or sweet enough, or whatever. And so once again, I found myself last night as my kid was saying to me, I wish we lived in that house, I wish we lived in that house, I wish we lived in that house, and I had had it. And I’m like, when is it gonna be enough that what we have is all that we need, and we don’t need want more, we don’t have to have more. And we live in a world where rights are being taken away from gay parents and trans kids, and like all my kid wants to do is be on TikTok all the time. And I’m like, and meanwhile, can you just pick up the wet towels off your floor? And um, so you know, I am it’s it feels to me that there’s a lot of tension in our house, and I think my younger kid is like, can you and can you stop fighting with my sister, please? And I’m like, oh geez, now it’s coming. The advice for my little kid is that I am fighting too much. But um, you know, it is uh it it just it it doesn’t let up. And I’m like, but how do you teach your kids to pick up the towels off the floor if you’re not like nagging after them the entire time? Anyway, there’s a lot of nagging going on, but you know what? We do always uh say goodnight on very good terms. So it’s it’s not a failure, but I am uh it’s it’s a lot. It’s all a lot. Never go to bed angry. Yeah. Uh uh, do you ever go to bed angry? Do your kids, do you and your husband ever go to bed angry?
David:
No, we’re we don’t really, we’re not really fighters, but but my there are I have to oh I have to override the caveman part of my brain that would like my son or really my son is being an asshole before bed, that I don’t just say find like the beast from being the beast, then starve and like slam the door. Like that’s all I want to do. And I have never done that because a my husband is a better person than I am, so he always like chooses the high road, and I always feel guilty that I don’t. But also, like you I do I have to manufacture a part of my brain that like the other day we were leaving daycare, he was being a total fucking asshole, and we were in the hallway, and I felt myself going to the point of like I’m gonna pick him up, throw him in the car, and let him scream the whole. I was just like so angry. And what I did was I just stopped. We were in the middle of the hallway on like where two stairways meet. And I said, Emmet, let’s you and I reset. And he goes, What? And I said, We’re gonna reset. You and I, we’re gonna hold hands, and on three, we’re all both gonna jump as high as we can in the air, and we’re gonna land really loud. And I don’t know where this came from in my head, but I felt my brain going to a very dark place. So he goes, What? I don’t understand. And I was like, Let’s just do it one, two, three, we’re gonna jump really high. And we just went one, two, three, we jumped up in the air, we landed, and then he kind of laughed, and then I picked up and I like threw him really high over my head and I grabbed him, and then he just started laughing, and then it broke this like thing. Yep, and good for you like that. Is me Michelle, thank you, Michelle Obama. Like taking the high road when all I wanted to do was just throw him as hard as I could into the backseat and be like, then starve. Yeah.
Gavin:
I don’t know. You will we both have similar uh spouses because I would say that my partner uh f very, very frequently takes the high road, or but also it isn’t helpful for me to hear the advice like, well, if you would just make it lighter, or if you could you have to be the grown-up in the room, and I’m like, fuck you, I don’t want to be the grown-up in the room.
David:
This is why it’s good that we married the people we did, because if like two two personalities like you and I got married or they got married, can you imagine the destruction, the just the collapse of the entire family union that that would happen? Um, all right. So moving on, let’s move on to this week’s top three list, which was my list, and my really thoughtful, elegant list was who are the top three hottest murderers?
Gavin:
I’m really glad you have dumbed it down a little bit and made it frankly sexier.
David:
So thank you.
Gavin:
No, no, it’s true. It’s all right.
David:
I I’m all about it. Okay, so uh, and number three, my third hottest murderer is a very specific one. Christian Bale as Patrick Bateman in American Psycho. Totally. Christian Bale, it listen, say what you will about him. He is so sexy in that movie. Yeah. Um absolutely. Absolutely. So it’s so manufactured though, like he knows he’s sexy, but it’s yeah, all right, all right. Uh uh number two for me, David Korish from the branch Davidian cult. He’s got this, like he’s got this like 70s long hair, skinny, like maybe barefoot playing guitar kind of vibe, which I was totally into. Like, sorry about all like the culty like death and everything, but like he is very, very sexy. Um, number one, first place, I gotta give it to the hometown hero, Jeffrey Dahmer. He for he’s blonde, he’s gay, he cleans up, like he is he’s he, you know, you gotta give it to the hometowner. Um, so all right, number one, Jeffrey Dahmer. Thanks a little high five to the the gay murderers out there. What about you?
Gavin:
I took a little less reality spin, um, although I would obviously Patrick Bateman is not real, but I would say at um at number three is Mark Wahlberg in the movie Fear. Oh, I haven’t seen it from 1996. But you had me at Mark Wahlberg. It’s him, Reese Ritherspoon, and he terrorizes the entire family, and it’s the dad is protecting his daughter, Rhys Ritherspoon, who was, you know, young in 1996. Where Mark Wahlberg very, very scarily locks her in a bathroom, lifts up his t-shirt, which of course is abs for days, and he has scratched into his skin Nicole for Eva, which is fucking hysterical because he’s got that Boston accent, but it’s those abs, and he’s scratched his skin, and you’re like, oh, he’s a hot psychopath murderer for sure. So number three, Mark Wahlberg in the movie Fear. Number two, Darren Chris as the murderer of Versace in that show that Ryan Murphy had, you know, um, the murder of Versace or whatever. Darren Chris, I mean, Darren Chris can he can be a murderer, he can be a dad or whatever. Um, I’m here for it. And then number one for me, Jeremy Irons in Die Hard with a Vengeance. There is a scene in there where he is doing yoga naked. And when I saw that movie, I was like, I’m sorry, excuse me, what? And I remember the whole movie thinking like, and I was young to realize the feelings I think I was having. I mean, not that I was six years old or anything, but I was like, yeah, but the guy who’s about to kill a bunch of people, I mean, he was kind of hot when he was doing naked yoga. So I know. Jeremy Irons diehard with a vengeance is my number one murder hot murderer. Nice. All right. What’s next week’s list gonna be? Next week, um, let’s stay with hotties and let’s talk about hot professions. When you see a dude in his job and it’s just automatically hot, dude, because it’s a hot job. Tell me what your top three are.
David:
Okay, so our guest this week is a man I’ve had the pleasure of knowing since 2001. Which honestly, if you ask me, it was like eight years ago. Yeah, eight years ago. Right.
Gavin:
It’s both of it’s both of those things. I still think like just a couple of years ago, you know, 2007.
David:
He is a successful writer, composer, actor, artist, and now he’s got something to add to the very top of his resume. He is a new dad. Daddy. One of my favorite picketing pals, Nick Blemeyer. Hi, buddy. Nick and I, we were just talking the other day. Uh, we met in 2001, which I I I I said jokingly, but I really mean it. When you think about 2001, doesn’t it feel like, I don’t know, like eight or nine years ago?
Gavin:
Totally. Or still in the future, frankly. That was almost 23 years ago.
David:
Jesus! Like, do you understand how long ago that is? I do not. We could be great grandparents if we had created a child in 2001. Also, science would have a lot to explain. Uh Nick and I created a child at the Well to the Art Project. Stick to the arts, buddy. You know what you said to me when we were talking on the phone? You were like, I remember you had sideburns out to your nose. That’s true. I used to have for like 10 years, I had these wild sideburns. Do you know where those sideburns came from? Footloose. Yes, yes. Okay, so not a lot of people know this, but I was borderline obsessed with a musical Footloose when I was in high school and college. I saw it on a spring break when I was in high school. I came up to New York City, I saw Footloose. I was like, this is the epitome of cool. It was just like, it was like rocking and wild, and there was shit flying in the air, people were on skateboards. Now I look back at it, and it looks like a really bad 90s like commercial for some a theme park show. Yeah, totally. But um, yeah, I was obsessed with it. And so the lead Gavin, Jeremy Kushner.
Gavin:
Jeremy, I hope you’re listening, and we will definitely have you on.
David:
Had sideburns to his mouth, and I literally was like purpose? Was that artistic choice or not? Yeah, I don’t know if it was like Ren McCormick or if it was Jeremy Kushner or some sort of like middle ground. But so I was like, I’m gonna fucking do that. So I did that, and then I just that was my identity of my life. Oh yeah. You it was my entire identity.
Gavin:
You arrived in New York City with sideburns to you know, okay.
David:
In multiple headshot sessions, you can see them. Oh my god. I you know what, you know, wait, do you know when I got rid of them? 2008 or 2000, wait, 2008, when I did Shrek, because they were like, you can’t have those because we have so much like makeup and stuff like that, and that’s when they went away.
Gavin:
Anyway, Nick, thanks for wasting your time with us.
SPEAKER_04:
This honestly, it’s been not a pleasure at all so far.
David:
Fantastic. So, Nick, I don’t want to like spend too much time on your pedigree, but like you are maybe one of my most accomplished friends. When they talk about like ampersand, I think that word ampersand, you know, people are like, oh, you’re singer, dancer, actor. Nick is all of the things. I think you actually might belong to more unions than I do, which is a really hard thing to do. But Nick, you you started as a writer in high school, like you were writing, composing, you were doing music. You I think we talked about you were playing guitars for girls. You know, you played like, you know, you knew all the chords to like Dave Matthews crash, and that was about nice.
Gavin:
Oh, that will definitely make you successful.
David:
Successful. And then he went to Michigan. Oh, go blue. So direct, so so direct to Broadway, right? And then you did Crybaby. You’re an actor in a bunch of shows. But what I think was a huge feather in your cap, which I want to talk about a little bit, is like you were in a Broadway show performing, while a Broadway show you had written was a what eight blocks north opening. That’s amazing.
Gavin:
That that is has that ever been has that ever been done?
SPEAKER_04:
Yeah. I don’t know. I don’t know. I mean, it was my first time for sure. Um I yeah, I I I still I still am like bat you I feel like you’re talking about somebody else. Speaking of 2001, right? I’m just like there’s no there’s no amount of you telling me that that actually occurred that feels real, despite the fact that I have like pretty crystal clear memories of like trying to navigate that. And like I was living with a mutual buddy of ours, Ryan Watkinson, who was uh um a childhood best friend of mine, who was actually the subject of one of the characters in the Broadway show that I wrote, Glory Days. I was living with him doing Crybaby on Broadway at the Marquee, and like I would wake up in the morning, he was doing Xanadu, I think, at that time. Um and uh and it was just like a total, it was a total dream come true. And in some ways, you know, I think we’ve we’ve talked about this, David, and Gabe, and I’m sure you have uh, you know, some sort of equation for this as well. That you know, it’s a funny thing when your dreams come true because then it’s like, well, now what?
Gavin:
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:
Um, and I think in in a lot of ways, parenting so far has been like, oh, maybe this was what I was really waiting for. Um, because I remember doing Crybaby and being, you know, it was like five or six weeks of previews and just changes like crazy. And and David, you were mentioning when we were chatting the other day about how you saw a per uh a night when one of the songs that Harriet Harris sang like wasn’t even orchestrated, right? Um yeah, I mean, there was a night when James Snyder, who played Crybaby, was reading lyrics off of cue cards and the wings to his I Want song. Because David Jabberbaum from um The Daily Show was changing stuff so often because he had like the TV mindset. Um but I remember doing that, you know, like uh the 20th or 30th show and being like, okay, you know, I now I now I’ve now I’ve now I feel like I get this. Now I feel like I’ve I’ve been through this. And you know, in a lot of ways, what I learned in that moment is that. Doing uh that Broadway is more about maintenance than it is about um accomplishment. Like the accomplishment is like getting there, and and it there is such a holy shit to that that I still kind of also can’t believe has actually happened. Like I still feel like the guy that I was when I met David at Broadway Theater Project uh and rankings summer theater program in 2001, when like that was the only thing on either of our minds. And then, you know, it it sort of evaporated in once once once I got there, was like, oh, actually, this is about like maintaining your health so that you can repeat your performance night after night after night after night for all these new audiences. And that was just like a an eye-opening moment of like, oh, was that what I was after when I was a kid, or was it like the rehearsal process actually?
David:
The creation. That’s what it is. And I think that’s that is the like kind of limited view you have from that side, is you’re like, oh, I’m gonna be on Broadway, I’m gonna make this thing, it’s gonna be amazing, but you don’t realize exactly what you said that the the experience of being a professional on Broadway is about maintaining a product visually, emotionally, uh everything and consistency, especially if you get a show, a government show like Wicked, like those, those, those shows, there’s no like artistic flip, like they’re like, no, this is what the product is, and you don’t recreate that product every single night.
SPEAKER_04:
Don’t evolve, don’t explore. And I think that’s that’s complex because it’s it’s like this is also the peak uh of American theater, and so I think that was a really interesting moment, and and doing glory days also was because I think that it’s like dictated every choice I’ve made since about just like wanting to be making stuff that feels uh you know personal and intimate, and and then going back to this this this new project of parenting that I know you you’re both familiar with. This this feeling of like, oh, I’m having like profound experiences every minute with a person who won’t remember and and or applaud or appreciate anything.
David:
Or pay you or pay us your pension, which is fucking bullshit. But continue.
SPEAKER_04:
Totally. Uh quite the opposite. Um, but uh but yeah, just just the idea of like, you know, what was what was the what was the audience thing really about in the first place? And and like maybe these private, profound moments are, you know, are they are they more valuable than than a crowd applauding for you? Is it a different valve? And and it is, it’s not they’re not equatable really, but there’s there’s something about what I learned from doing the big thing that made the small thing become more valuable.
David:
Yeah. Can you tell quickly the story about when you were told about Glory Days and you were like, okay, there was one rule. They’re like, you can do Crybaby and Glory Days, but what’s the one rule?
SPEAKER_04:
Yeah, uh, you can’t call out of any previews, you can’t miss any previews. So I had this great conversation with Mark Brokow, who’s like a just a legendary director. He did This Is Our Youth with Mark Ruffalo, like back in 1984, which is the year I was born. Um and he’s talking to me, and Rob Ashford, choreographer, were like at the foot of the stage, and they’re like, We’re stoked for you, like this is an anomaly. Um, but like you really can’t miss. Like, we have a lot of work to do in these um 130 weeks of previews. Um, so uh so don’t just don’t miss. And I I of course said yes, but then you know, we’re going through previews for glory days at the same time, and like I’m writing the music for that, so we’re making changes, and you know, I’m getting texts while I’m on stage at preview rehearsal for Crybaby, like, hey, can we change this lyric? Or hey, can we change this like bar of music? And I’m like, that’s like a 30-minute conversation at the least. Like, we need to, you know, no, I can’t answer this over my BlackBerry.
Gavin:
I was gonna say, this is even pre-iPhone days, isn’t it? I mean, I know when Crybaby was, so I miss that.
SPEAKER_04:
I miss that clack, clack, clack. I thought, you know, you got a lot of aggression that way. But um, so one night it was just like it I needed to be at Glory Days to see um some changes, and so I called in sick at Crybaby and like snuck across the eight blocks, went to see Glory Days, and the producers of Crybaby were in the audience of Glory Days and saw me across the way and had that moment. I remember their faces just like, oh hey Nick, wow, congrats, you know, just like their face fell. And then the stage manager, you know, was just like, you’re gonna get fired for this. Like, this is like this is gonna ruin your career. Like, you’re uh you’re a uh Satan. Um, and uh and to Rob Ashford’s great credit, he heard the stage manager having that conversation and came over and was like, We’re gonna let Nick off the hook for this one. Um, don’t do that again. Yeah. Uh I didn’t have any time to because Glory Days closed on opening night and Crybaby closed not far after. So if even if I wanted to, I wouldn’t have gotten it all.
David:
Wait, that story reminds me of uh there’s a guy named Richie who did I did the national tour of Saturday Fever. He did the Broadway production and he told us the story of in act two of Saturday Fever, there’s like an opening number of act two, and then for a certain group of the male ensemble, they literally do nothing until bouts. So they had all of this time, and Richie said, he goes, I needed to buy a douche. So, and and you know, in Saturday Fever, we had like the Britney Spears mics, and so he was like, So I just walked across the street to the bodega in my costume, in my microphone, just quickly to get a douche, and I’m standing in line with a douche. And who walks into the bodega but the producers of Saturday Night Fever? And he’s like, Ha! I mean, he is mic’d and then just disco attire holding a douche. Um so yeah, you can’t get away with anything in New York City. Listen, this is like what 11 blocks will be you’ll run into people. Yeah, geography.
SPEAKER_02:
And I love the idea that like his mic was live, so he’s like, I’d like to buy a douche over the loudspeaker of the Broadway theater, and they’re like, tragedy.
David:
Oh my god. So the uh the last Broadway story, I swear to God, everyone who hates Broadway, we’re gonna move on to parenting in a second. But wow, I was I was doing I was doing Trek on Broadway, and there was a there’s a scene where there’s puppets and we have to be the voices of the puppets in the wings. And there is a changing room in the backstage, and usually I hang out there, and then it’s my turn to go out there. I go out there, I do my little thing. And it was the Lion King, right? So I was like, nah, so by uh, which is a little problematic, but whatever. And um, so I’m back there and we’re doing, we’re all telling each other stories of, you know, like the dirty Sanchez and the chili, you know, all the like the gross sexual things. Trying to gross each other out. We’re trying to gross each other out. Turn each other on, whatever. Correct, yeah. So we’re all like telling us like who can like outdo who with like the grossest things. So I’m standing there and I’m like, no, no, no, guys, I got you. So it’s called the Alaskan Pipeline. And so I start talking about the Alaskan Pipeline. And as I’m talking, out of the corner of my eye, I see Eric Peterson, who is one of the other voices, standing in the wings. And he all he does is he just kind of leans over into the changing room I’m in and just looks at me. He just looks at me. And in that moment, I re I I check in and I’m listening to where I’m in the show, and I go, oh, I’m to be singing right now. I am to be singing, and I am mid-conversation, so let me perform how this went. It went. And so it’s the Alaskan pipeline, guys. So what you do is you shit into a condom, okay? And then you freeze it, and then you use it as a dun nahbi, two double. And so I, like you, was like, I’m getting fired tonight. So I went upstairs and it was just before intermission, and I was like, literally packing my things. I was like, they’re gonna ask me to leave. I just ruined my first Broadway show. Like, I I’m never gonna work in this industry again. And I just waited and waited and waited, and then intermission came, and then people were getting ready for act two, and I just started getting ready. And then I was like, I’m just gonna do act two. Maybe they’re gonna fire me after the show. After the show comes, nobody comes up to me. So I go up to the A2, I go up to this one of the sound guys, and I go, Hey, so like during the puppet show, like, did you hear me say anything weird? He’s like, No, I was like, Did you put my mic on like at last minute? He goes, Oh yeah, like the last second I throw it up, I was like, Thank you for saving my entire job because the children in the audience didn’t have to hear about freezing shit and using it as a dildo. Jesus Christ.
SPEAKER_04:
But also, have you worked since? Because I don’t think. So maybe they maybe one of those children did file a commander.
David:
Honestly, maybe one of those children, yeah, totally. So, Nick, you are a dad. Congratulations on the congratulations back to both of you. We are all dads here, and uh uh the reason I wanted to have you on, one of the many reasons, uh, other than I love seeing your face. Um you’re my um WGA picketing pal now, is um talking about an artist’s career pre-children and post-children, and really what our fantasies and our kind of visions was before, and then now you’re in the weeds. Now you are a working screenwriter and composer and musician who is also now a dad. And so we talked a little bit on the line um when we were picketing, I don’t know, what was that, Amazon or something? Um but like how did you imagine your career changing when you had kids?
SPEAKER_04:
Or did you uh no? I think it’s a wonderful question, and I I pose it back to both of you because I I feel like you you’ve had more time to process it than I have. My my daughter. How old is your little one right now? Uh my my daughter Faye is seven months.
David:
Oh, wow. And as Nick said, I haven’t worked since 2008. So you have no after.
Gavin:
You only have the before to talk about, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:
Yeah, exactly. And then you just started working at Applebee’s, and it’s been you saying, No, no, but you know what? I have all the flair. Exactly. You have the little Alaskan pipeline pin. Yeah. You made it yourself.
David:
I I just cannot even believe that I was saved by a really smart soundboard operator. Thank God for those guys.
SPEAKER_04:
Truly, truly. Um, okay, so to answer your question, I think um I I’m very, very much still in the the thicket of of understanding who I am now. Um and I think I I had you know a bunch of, as we all do, I think, hopefully, have uh a bunch of good teachers around us in in terms of people who have been through it before and and artists who have been through it before. And I was talking to a director about a project um like the week before my wife gave birth, and he was like, having a child is creative steroids. It’s like it’s the greatest thing for your career, it was the greatest thing for my career, it was like a rocket ship. And I was like, oh great, what a great way to think about it. You know, I’m gonna come in and I’m gonna be um just like awake in a new way. And uh, and I I kind of was. I mean, like right away, uh, I was really interested in like finding this balance and sticking the landing on that, um, on that balance of like sleeplessness, um, and you know, trying to like make space for this new human who I’m getting to know, while also keeping up the um the amount of workaholism that I had uh before Faye came along. And and I I am a workaholic. I definitely um feel more comfortable spinning five or six creative plates at once, um, which uh, you know, I think is something that I’m reckoning with right now. Uh partially because just that the hours are gone, um, and that it, you know, whatever I thought uh it was gonna take to raise a kid, it I knew it was gonna be more than I could possibly imagine, and it is more than I imagined.
David:
That that is the one thing that preparent, pre-parents, non-parents, whatever you want to call them, cannot comprehend. They think they can, is what 24 hours a day, seven days a week means.
SPEAKER_04:
Yep. Yeah. You’re just and it’s like just an immediate um, you’re immediately behind. And I think that’s something that my my brother, who’s also a parent and I’ve talked a lot about, um, and he’s in the the you know, the the world of like the nine to five, and is is just like, you know, I don’t he’s like, I I don’t like feeling like I’m getting a break at work from my family. I I I I want to feel like I’m I’m at work to feed my family and that there’s this beautiful symmetry and symbiosis there, but it’s it’s tricky because I I I feel a little bit like when you say my name, I feel like you’re talking about somebody else. Like I’m I’m a little bit like um only Faye’s dad now, and happily so. And I think you know, right out of the gate, I really was like, I was stimulated uh so much by what I had seen um my my wife go through and and what Faye went through to to come into the world, and then watching her just kind of like figure things out on a granular level, all the way up to to who she is now, which is like who is like a hilarious, very cool little person who I like really enjoy just hanging out with, much less like keeping alive. Um, and so she was informing you know every every artistic choice I was making as well. But I think you know, the elephant in the room is that it it just created such a pressure on the the business side of the work of like I need to sell this movie, I need to sell this script, I need to get this job in a way that I I just it is not positive. And I remember being in an audition at NBC during pilot season when pilot season was a thing, um, with a guy who I’m gonna remain nameless, but it were the story works out well for him. It was uh for what was that show? Marvel’s Agents of Shield. And um we’re sitting there and I’m like a Marvel fan. I’m like, this is cool, like I would like to do this, and and he just looks stressed. And I was like, How are you? Um he’s like, I’m bad. And I was like, Why are you bad? Like, you’re you’re a good actor, I’ve seen you and stuff. Like you, you know, you we’re this is the long game, right? He’s like, No, I just had a child, I need this job. And I I just like saw a look of desperation and sort of pain on his face about like, of course, he doesn’t want to put that on the work. That’s not a great way to like, you know, be be open to the creative spirits. Um, but what’s weird is that he he got the job. Um, and uh so I’m very happy for him that it worked out, but I think it it he he still had to, it’s sort of like a double accomplishment because he had to navigate that panic and still be in the moment and do something, you know, for some executives who don’t care whether you’re a parent or not. Um so I guess the the long story short is that like I’m fascinated by how it’s changing me and I’m trying to relinquish uh controlling the way that it’s changing me.
Gavin:
Has it helped the your creative process though? Like, for instance, if you sit in the corner with a pen and a paper and you just look off into the windows and whatnot, are you able to like d maybe divorce isn’t the best word, but like are you able to not think about the fact that any minute now Faye’s gonna wake up from his uh nap, and frankly, I should probably be folding that laundry over there, and my wife needs a break, and I need to be able to do this, that, and the other, but also I need to like feel my creative soul. Are you able to, you know, separate them and feel as opposed to cranking out product? Are you able to sit there and be philosophical and creative?
SPEAKER_04:
Yes, I I think I I’m not a great compartmentalizer in general. I sort of get overwhelmed by like the majesty of life, like pretty quickly, um, and just like the pain of life for everybody. Uh, but but I think one of the smart things and one of the privileges that that my wife and I were afforded um by the work that we’d done previous to getting pregnant was that we knew that the the office in our apartment was gonna get turned into a nursery, so we rented a little office space that I’m in right now. And so like actually physically separating myself feels so important. Like you can’t you can’t.
David:
You can’t smell shit and write a beautiful screenplay. No is the rule. That’s correct.
SPEAKER_04:
That’s correct. Even if the shit is on the collar of your shirt and you’re like, is that my shit?
David:
Wait, or can you see my collar right now? This is a baby drool from holding her on my yeah, no, it’s like legit baby drool on. I mean, what you were saying, Nick, I think is also going back to the art side of it, is like we were led pre-parents by the art. We were led by the inspiration, by the art we wanted to make, and that kind of led us. And then when you when you’re putting it now through this filter of like this art needs to pay the bills, and it always needed to pay the bills, but that that wasn’t the way you kind of uh put it in your brain. Right. So now the pressure of like make the art to pay the bills feels a little it’s that it’s it’s a little more intense, and then it’s and then it sucks a little bit of the joy out. And I I will say that you saying having that separate space is so important. One of the lessons I learned, and this was about texting, but I think it still relates is like either be fully in or fully out. I would try to like answer a phone call or do text while I was playing or doing stuff, and it just made everyone miserable, versus like either be fully invested, don’t even think about it, or be out of the room, don’t even talk to your kids and be doing something totally different. I think that has saved me, and I think that it sounds like that art that space that you have is doing the same kind of a thing.
SPEAKER_04:
I I relate to that totally, and I think the flip side of the intensity is an intensity of focus because you know how privileged that time is to be away. Um, and and so I do think you’re wasting it with us, which is well, that’s your fault. I I feel so guilt, I felt too guilty to say no.
David:
You’ll never get this this 30 minutes back. Sorry. It was really for a Gavin.
SPEAKER_04:
Yeah um but but um yeah, I I I do feel like you know, going back to what that director said to me, I do feel, and I wonder if if this if you guys feel this as well, that there is like I mean, there’s a mystery revealed in in in terms of like, oh my god, I was this little pound of skin, and now I’m I’m I’m full of all these thoughts, and I was playing, I’m playing this video game in my mind about what the career should be, and and I should you know eat that mushroom, and it’ll give me a one-up. But like I know now, I might I’m zoomed out so far into the like miracle of existing at all. And that’s the thing. Every time my wife comes out and brings the baby out after they’ve been breastfeeding or she’s been breastfeeding in the morning, and and Faye just is like, Hi, I’m like, how do you exist? Like, how is it possible that you look like a morphing of it’s sci-fi? It’s sci fi.
David:
I can tell you like a bottle of whiskey and the Michael Bublé album. That’s how you guys did it. I know that’s how you did it. That’s how she’s huge.
SPEAKER_04:
Uh Booblay is a huge aprodisiac for us, yes. Yes.
David:
But wait, I also want to get into a little bit before we go because we’re already running out of time, which is so disappointing. But um, you and I, I feel like, are ampersands, where we are our our artistic, I artistic identity is pretty varied. And I think a lot of people in our industry, and a very notable person that we met when we were in 2001, are look down upon that. They’re like, choose the one thing you are because that will lead you. And I always fought against that, and I understand the differences of like, yeah, you’re you’re you’re broadening yourself out, but you’re not as easily identifiable. What I found after becoming a parent was it it forced me in a good way, in a way that I liked, to strip away some of the ones I was holding on to for non valid reasons, and to be like, no, no, no, I am a blank and a blank and not a blank, blank, blank, blank, blank, blank, blank. Because I think prior to it it was like, I can do anything and I’m gonna prove it to you guys. Right. And now I’m like, yeah, I don’t fucking want to do that one anymore. I want to do This one and it it it helped me focus the the pressure of you gotta pay the fucking bills also helped me hone I think my artistic vision of what I wanted to be doing. And I’m curious if you felt the same way.
SPEAKER_04:
Uh well good for you. No, I don’t. I mean, uh no, I I I think I I I I’ll hope to, and and I think that more than anything, it it’s like it you you have the best excuse in the world. You know, it’s just like okay, I I I’m not gonna do something. It’s just like time is more valuable now. And so it if that’s the case, and and Gaben, I I wouldn’t like are you are you a multi-hyphenite or are you like a a a singular?
Gavin:
Oh, I would I I think I’m I’m uh I’m definitely non-binary, multi-hyphenate, all the things and the gray area, I would say. But I mean in terms of like show business, yeah, I was a have been am uh actor, singer, dancer, sure. And but then also like now I’m a nonprofit activist and a podcaster and a fashion designer. And um am I doing any of those things very successfully right now to varying degrees, but yes, I can relate to the full distraction and ad-ness of it. And also feeling like even with kids, many people have said to me, How are you doing all the things you’re doing with a kid with kids? And I’m gonna go, well, probably not very successfully, but but it does, it has opened up. I think parenting uh makes me more efficient with my time because um because I I still want to be creative, I still frankly want to live for myself a little bit, but also I want to set a good example for my kids, also to be like, hey, just jump in and do the shit.
David:
And yeah, but but you living for yourself is the good example you need to set for because my parents, my parents, god bless them, were parents, they didn’t really have an identity beyond that. And I think I I think I it was something I noticed, you know. We all have those things like we look back at our childhood, we’re like, I would like to improve upon that, improve upon that, yeah, add that. Like, you know, you kind of do that. And that was what I remember thinking, even at that young age, is like, I want to make sure my kids see me living independently of them that can inspire them, even if it’s like I play baseball or I don’t play baseball. I mean, I could do cartwheels in the outfield and pick flowers, that is not it. But like to for them to be inspired, you know. I’m sure when Faye watches you play the guitar, that’s gonna be a fun thing for her to see and be inspired by and tell stories about. My dad used to play the guitar poorly, but he used to play the guitar and it was wonderful. I’m kidding. My goodness jaws it gave.
SPEAKER_04:
Are you surprised? Right. And I’m no, I’m not surprised by anything David says. Um, but I I do I it has been actually a really fascinating thing to echo what both of you are saying. So, you know, there’s there’s this like five o’clock to six thirty, you know, really tricky hour and a half of like what you do with your kids. Um, and it’s it’s shocking and scary how um if I bring the guitar out, she’s like, wow, wow, wow, oh my god. Oh, cool. That’s awesome. And so we play and she puts her hands on and and strums. And it’s it’s fascinating, and I think this is you know, going with what you’re saying about you can’t just be a parent um because that’s doing your child a disservice in a way because it’s sort of saying, like, don’t be your own person. Um, and and you know, it’s not I I don’t relate to the parents who uh who sort of martyr themselves uh because I think there’s a resentment that then comes out in the parenting. And you know, to your point about not wanting to text while you’re with your kid, yeah, because like your kid deserves the attention, like they’re fascinating enough on their own. And like that’s the thing. It’s like time management’s gotten better, everything’s just gotten deeper. Like my need for uh answers about like what’s coming next are deeper, even though like I don’t that doesn’t mean that the answers are gonna come any sooner. Um, but I think it’s making the questions I’m asking also deeper about like what do I really want and what am I really good at? To your point, David, about like you know, which which hyphens do I keep. Um and and I think it’s just like these kids deserve to know that you know their parents are all of these things and that they can be them too, and that like when I’m playing the guitar for my daughter, I’m not like you need to be a guitarist. Like I I think the whole idea of being artists having kids and knowing how hard Joe business is, and then sort of trying to like uh share the joy of art with your child, which is such a means of communication for you know, music and rhyming and and all of the ways that you kind of get kids to understand communication is such a delicate balance because I’m not trying to teach her that like she needs to do this, you know, in order to make to make me happy, or she doesn’t she needs to not do this in order to make me happy.
David:
Like that’s yeah, I think it’s about being a full person. Yeah, just period. Being a full person for yourself, for your your partner, and also for your children. I think that that is kind of what we’re yeah, exactly. That’s what we’re talking about because that that is the human experience, and this interview is way too serious. Oh my god. We haven’t talked about any dick jokes. Also, I mean Yeah, you did.
SPEAKER_04:
You brought the Alaskan pipeline, you asked.
David:
Yeah, but that’s not about a dick. That was about shit in a couple of well, it’s a dick shape. That’s true, you’re right, you’re right.
SPEAKER_04:
Okay, so here’s a gross story just to cap off our time so we’re not being too sentimental. So she’s constipated right now, she’s like into into solids, and it is so it’s so funny. Uh it’s so fun. Her pain is funny. Like, I she’s like in so much pain trying to shit out these little fucking Reese’s pieces.
David:
Rabbit pellets. Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_04:
Yes. And I I open the diaper, and she’s just like really like experiencing pain at that level for the first time, like kidney stone level shit. And I open the diaper, and there’s like a fucking bunch of crunch, and I’m just like just a Civil War muscat shell.
SPEAKER_03:
And I just laugh. And my wife’s like, You’re such a bad father, and I think maybe I am.
David:
Yeah. No, we all are. I mean, like that’s not that’s the full human being. Welcome to the patriarch. I will say, Nick, um, as we let you go, thank you for a thank you for joining us and demeaning yourself by being on our stupid little podcast. Thank you for letting me go. I yes, I I I do take inspiration, I have never said this to you, but I do find inspiration in you being a fellow ampersand and doing it exquisitely and successfully. And I am inspired from the sidelines. I would never tell this to your face. Um, uh, but yeah, you you you inspire me daily. Yeah, yeah. Right, all right. Well, I love you so much. Thank you for joining us on this stupid little podcast.
SPEAKER_04:
I’m so happy to.
Gavin:
Well, mainly good luck with the constipation and the the the uh musket shells and the rabbit pellets.
SPEAKER_04:
Thank you so so much, Gavin, for being the warmth in this conversation.
David:
So, something great this week for me, going along with the sick vibe, is um my son has like a wake-up light, you know, like where you can program it to turn on or off or whatever anytime you want. It’s got sound and everything. So we basically taught him when the light turns yellow, that means you’re allowed to leave your room. And for whatever reason, he fucking respects it, which blows my mind.
Gavin:
It’s a magical fairy dust that kids actually follow that and they take it very seriously until they don’t.
David:
Stop it with the just you wait. So, um, anyway, so recently he’s gotten into this thing with as soon as the clock hits seven, he stumbles into our room, but he brings his blanket and as many stuffed animals as he can carry. And there’s just this Norman Rockwell vision of the the clock strikes seven, and you just hear and the door swings open, and there’s this little boy holding this blanket hovered in stuffed animals. He runs up to the bed, he throws everything on the bed, he jumps on, and it’s just this like one of the few moments of just like pure beauty and like Norman Rockwellness. And so that’s been happening a lot lately. So that might is my something great.
Gavin:
My something great is much uh less social and much less sweet. So I am solo dad once again for a little while. Um, because hey, art, man, it uh it takes your partners away an awful lot of the time. So uh I’m solo for uh so I am solo and it is fine. This is what we do, and um, I’m able to do it for sure. And it what’s been really great, it this is kind of two-parter, sorry. Gary Gennetti, who you definitely need to follow on Instagram for all of the snide and snarkiness of his entire life. So part of my something great is that so many of my friends here have said, let us know what you need, let us know what you need, let us don’t be afraid to ask, let we can help you, as if I’m incapable of taking care of my kids for uh, you know, a month alone, which is perfectly fine. People do it all the time. But so I it’s something great that my parents my friends are offering help, and at the same time, I’m like, I don’t want to do anything though. I don’t want to socialize, I don’t want to go over to other people’s dinner houses for dinner. I just want to sit home and pour wine down my throat alone. And admittedly, it would be great if they would take my kids away from me. But um, I think everybody’s like, oh, let’s get together and socialize. And I’m like, I feel more antisocial than ever before. So my something great is Gary Gennady, who gives me so much attitude and I feel seen by him and also drinking alone. And also drinking alone, and my friends who are trying to make me not feel alone.
David:
And that is our show. If you have any questions, comments, suggestions, you can email us at gatriarchspodcast at gmail.com.
Gavin:
Or you can DM us on Instagram. We are at Gatriarchspodcast. On the internet, David is at DavidFM Vaughn everywhere, and Gavin is at GavinLodge on meh, I guess everything else.
David:
Please leave us a glowing five star review wherever you get your podcasts.
Gavin:
Thanks, and we’ll annoy you next time on another episode of Gatriarchs.