Full Transcript
Great. Um okay, so it is soon summertime, right?
David:
And we want to plan things. Sorry. It’s just funny to see you kind of go. It’s like watching Carrie Strug at the end of the mat, and she’s like she’s like prepping herself to do her round off guy can’t swing back tuck. But it’s a grown man doing a podcast. And this is catriarch. So I have some advice for you, Gavin.
Gavin:
Um, is this what we’ve come to?
David:
Yeah, yeah. It’s the yeah, the student becomes the teacher.
Gavin:
The uh the unsolicited advice portion of our journey here.
David:
Okay, I one of the ways I I feel like I do work or I are set work for later is I’ll see something and I’m like, ah, I need to do that, and I’ll screenshot it, and then I will email that screenshot to myself. So when I’m sitting in front of a computer, it’s an email that I can do, delete, and go. That’s just like my personal system.
Gavin:
The many layers of trying to get through the to-do list, but that makes sense.
David:
The problem is that I often do it while I’m peeing. So I’m like, like, oh, I need to screenshot that. And for the guy next to me at the urinal, he hears screenshot noise and then email, and then I zip up.
Gavin:
So maybe turn the whoosh, the whoosh of your urine stream and the whoosh of the email being.
David:
For sure. And so I think the advice I have is if you’re going to be doing work while your dick is out, make sure that you uh your sound is off. So that’s how I wanted to start this really elegant episode of Gatriarchs was just a little piece of advice.
Gavin:
I will take your unsolicited advice, and I’m gonna give you some unsolicited advice as well. Okay. Um, speaking of dicks and urinals and bathrooms and taking pics.
David:
Quality podcast, guys, quality high-end podcast.
Gavin:
Years ago, I was at a bachelor party where a buddy of mine came running out of the bathroom, actually, the bachelor, and he comes running out and he’s like, You guys, you won’t believe this. A dude fell asleep in the urinal, and I’m like, What? And I went in, and there was a guy who was apparently so drunk, somehow, I don’t know, I do not know how this happened, but I do have picture evidence of it uh somewhere. A dude had just like slumped over with his head in the urinal with his head in the urinal head in the urinal and I and I took a picture of it. And then he came to. I I don’t know if I was in there or if I I don’t think I was a good enough person to actually help him or wake him up. I was a bad enough person that I just took a picture and laughed about it. We know. But somehow he came to and he started to leave, and I ran up to him, and this was oh my god, this was a long time ago. Uh but it wasn’t exactly like you couldn’t just airdrop something, but I ran up to the guy. I mean, he was shit-faced, right? And I say to him, Hey buddy, you fell asleep in the urinal, and I took a picture of it. I want to send it to you because you’ll laugh about it someday. And he goes, Dude, I do that shit like all the time. And just walked away.
David:
Urinal naps? He does urinal naps all the time. I can think of maybe one or two other places that are more disgusting than your face in a like in a urinal nothing good is there.
Gavin:
Yes.
David:
No, just piss and stranger’s pubes, which I guess some people are into.
Gavin:
But that sounds no judgment. I’ve but it was one of the I mean, I will be in diapers one day and remember that.
David:
I will have forgotten everything about my life, but I will remember that time that I saw a dude who just passed out into your was it like a throwaway camera and you had to like click it back and then send it to Walgreens in like a little paper envelope?
Gavin:
So I wanted his address, his mailing address so we could send him copies because I was gonna get doubles.
David:
You’re a thousand years old.
Gavin:
Oh, always. So summertime is just on the horizon. Are you do you feel like you’re officially in summer?
David:
No, because it’s still really nice outside. It’s like, you know, seven minus the thick plumes of smoke that we’re breathing in.
Gavin:
But so you associate summer with oppressive heat that is not fun.
David:
No, look, summer is my least favorite season. It’s my husband’s favorite season. It’s the only time we argue because he’s like, let’s go outside. I was like, no, there’s no air conditioning outside. No.
Gavin:
Well, summer always makes me think of, yes, having no uh uh schedule and no routine whatsoever, which actually does drive me crazy, but also the sense of like, oh, I need to get out and enjoy this because it’s summertime and I have social obligations that I need to get out and enjoy. It reminds me of how often we try to have picnics outside, or and by we, I mean society, right? Like we all think we should be outside eating all the time. But going outside to eat is a pain in the ass. Like, you know, your hot dog is cold and your beer is warm, kind of thing. And none of the food is ever actually good unless maybe you’re having a pizza. But does anybody want a hot, greasy pizza outdoors when it’s sunny? And your picnic menu sounds like Fenway Park. Like, are you like in a good way? I mean, that would be that would be better, just basically paying somebody else to to just hand you pre-made food as opposed to thinking I’m gonna pack everything and go out to the I just find it.
David:
Are you proud that I remembered the name of a stadium? Are you like because like I literally was like going through my Wrigley Field Fenway Park? Fenway Park sounds a little more like different, so I’m gonna use that one. And people are gonna think I’m sporty.
Gavin:
The listeners in Connecticut are definitely gonna appreciate that. But nobody thinks you’re sporty. Okay. Nobody. No, nobody whatsoever.
David:
So don’t worry, your reputation for Except for my Spice Girls costume for Halloween. Then I’m sporty.
Gavin:
Okay, so anyway, so I I’m reminded of people who have their like pottery barn and crate and barrel picnics that just look so perfect with a blanket and like multiple bowls of food, and but when you do it with kids, it’s such a pain in the ass, especially with little kids. I was invited to a picnic, okay, admittedly, years ago, where I know that the host just wanted an Instagram worthy shot. And I’m like, I have two monsters that I’m bringing to this middle of Central Park. I’m already sweating my balls.
David:
Because getting there is a is a nightmare. Getting somewhere with kids, and then you’re also lugging like gingham plates and a fucking wicker basket. No, thank you. Yes.
Gavin:
Yes, and your and your tripod for to get that perfect shot. But also, um, you had to prep prep the food, which means that you were neglecting your kids in the first place to get the food because it either needs to be cold or it needs to be hot, packing it and then packing the kids and all of it. Like, I am so angry with Pottery Barn and Carrot and Barrel and all the like who make it make that Don Draper sense of the 1950s picnic ideal ideal, something that we want to aspire to. Because frankly, just give me a beer and a subway sandwich and call it a day. Do you picnic?
David:
No, it’s like because you need, like you said, you need a staff. If you want something like that, you want a staff. So there’s two problems with that. A number one is what you said, which is like the realities and logistics of having young children at a fucking unfenced area is is impossible. But also, my aesthetic is that I don’t like eating outdoors on a blanket where my ass is getting a little wet, it’s too hot, nothing tastes good, you just feel like you’re just trying to get through it. I was like, why are we doing this? I yeah, I am I when it comes to summer, I’m a fall girl, as we know. Pumpkin sliced lattes and an oversized sweater. I do and your PSLs, oh my god, PSLs and a spruce candle. Oh fuck yeah. So I love like it’s a little too cold, but if we put on a sweater, it feels perfect. When it’s the middle of summer and people are like, let’s go outside to consume fucking chips. No, thank you. Also, my my my my memory of like outdoor eating is always like Lay’s potato chips covered in like chlorine water. No, chlorine water because it’s always next to a pool, like it’s like pool party. And every time you put your hand in the bowl, everything tastes like chlorine.
Gavin:
Somebody else’s wet hands, like Jimmy’s wet hands went in the the bag, and you’re like, ah, you ruined the Lays and now they’re wet. So what’s like the what’s the dream picnic for you? What’s the perfect picnic for you? Okay, well, first of all, I would have eight-pack abs and be shirtless the entire time. I’ll be there. I’ll be there. What is my ideal picnic? Hanging out with my friends and getting drunk. No kids. David, what is your ideal picnic?
David:
In my cold basement alone, watching succession. Okay, let’s move on to our top three. Now, this was my list this week, and the top three list was top three things that are adorable when a little kid does it, but not so cute when an adult does it. And not kill. So uh number three for me is having conversations while you poop. My kid loves an audience, he loves, he loves somebody with him while he poops, and he loves to talk about Spider-Man and the world and you know Ukrainian politics while he’s pooping. So, number three, pooping conversations. Number two, staying in the bathroom. Um, peeing at the urinal with your pants around your ankles. That is so fucking cute when a kid does it. And if I walk into a bathroom and a grown-ass man is doing that, I’m out.
Gavin:
I’m out. You know what? The last time I remember seeing something like that happen, actually, I remember being in elementary school and seeing like a fourth grader do it and think, dude, I think you’re too old to be doing it, actually.
David:
Legit. Yeah. And number one for me, that is cute when a kid does it, but not an adult, eating a cupcake by just biting into it like a fucking psychopath. When a kid does it, it’s so cute. They get a little frosting on their nose. When an adult does it, I’m like, listen, you monster. Pull the bottom off and make it into a cupcake sandwich like the rest of us. My God.
Gavin:
Do you really make a cupcake sandwich? I mean, I agree with that. When adults bite into and try to get their mouth over the entire thing. It’s like a snake trying to like eat an alligator. This cum this cupcake sandwich thing perplexes me. I don’t think I’ve ever seen anybody do that.
David:
Gave him you, we have all I have so much to teach you and your few remaining years on Earth.
Gavin:
What is your top three list? Okay, so number three for me, believe it or not, is barfing. I think it’s kind of cute when my kids puke. I mean, the times that they’ve like barfed in my lap or over my shoulder, I’m like, oh, my heart goes out to them. Okay, I’m not a triggered barfer either. I can deal with it. I’m I I I I can deal. I can deal. So I’m not sure.
David:
But it is cute when they’re when they’re sick and they’re so cuddly. Yeah. Barfing, no thanks.
Gavin:
But as an adult, no. You you you crawl your ass to the bathroom and and I don’t want to hear it.
David:
Turn on loud music. Flush as you’re puking.
Gavin:
Number two, spaghetti mouth. I mean, a little kid with their mouths just so full of spaghetti and like the spaghetti coming out of their mouth and the tomato sauce all over their lips. It’s it’s cute. Now, adults who do that, yeah. Like you’re like, sir, you’re gonna have to leave this olive garden if you keep eating like this. I mean, it really is uh public eating etiquette is actually really shocking. We should have a base standard at least, and spaghetti mouth is not allowed after age four. And then finally, number one. Hey, I am all about body positivity. I love the human body, but naked dancing is not acute for adults. Adults. But a little kid, yeah. Come on. Little kids naked dancing. Totally fucking cute. That’s a great one.
David:
All right, what’s uh what’s next week’s list gonna be?
Gavin:
Well, it is summer. Okay, it’s very hot. And it is hot. Exactly. I think we should talk about the three things that are hotter than summer.
David:
I wanna first talk about Gavin’s weird sexy lean-in voice. Like, what was that? You like literally leaned into the mic.
SPEAKER_01:
You lowered your voice. Okay, fine. Fine, fine. I’ll never be like a 1-800-number voice over person.
David:
Fuck me. Not with that syntax, you’re not. All right, that sounds like a good list. Let’s do it. Our next guests are two travel-obsessed gays who are currently knee deep in the surrogacy process to become dads. They come from the land of lesbians, Portland, Oregon, um, and have built a considerable social media presence online, starting with a meeting over their coming out videos on YouTube. They are laughing at my jokes right now. You can’t see it, but they are laughing, covering their mouths. Uh, please welcome the show, Michael and Matt. Michael and Matt! Welcome. Welcome. We just had a fun little talk before I hit record, so I don’t know how we’re gonna get any of that stuff in. Tell us about your uh your coffee regimen, boys.
SPEAKER_03:
Oh, yeah. This is a point of contention to start off with in the morning.
SPEAKER_04:
Yeah, Matthew. Um, I don’t know. I make coffee every single morning. I wake when I go to work at the dental clinic, I wake up at five. I make coffee. He gets to wake up at like seven or whatever. And then lounging and there’s just a pot ready for him. It’s like sit on the couch. Yeah. By that time, I’m like already at the clinic doing some, you know, doing my my job. And then when he wakes up, when he wakes up before me, I’m like, Did you make coffee? He’s like, uh Okay. There’s coffee that’s hot. Do you do you want it? Here’s this. It’s from yesterday, and I’m like, I absolutely do not want that. All right.
SPEAKER_03:
Some people may think this is disgusting, but when you have leftover coffee, you have like so much. Like, I I mean, I I have like eight cups left in that pot. Am I gonna toss eight cups away? That’s like Matthew’s the king of our bucks or something. So, like, let’s save a little bit of money. Two cups. Two cups, three cups, four cups, whatever. Eight cups. Eight cups. It’s more like eight cups.
Gavin:
So there’s there’s gotta be some magical recipe out there for turning that into really good iced coffee. Because frankly, when you spend six dollars getting iced coffee elsewhere, it’s never any good. So, how can it be any worse just with your leftover coffee?
David:
I I am I am that girl. I’m the girl who was like, because I only drink iced coffee. I’m I’m just you know, listen, I’m if you’re gonna be gay, be gay. But like I I was doing that. We had a pot and I would pour it into like, you know, a big pitcher, and then it’s never as good. No, it’s never as good. It’s it’s too acidic, it’s too anyway. We’re really starting strong, guys. Iced coffee conversation.
Gavin:
But I think that there’s definitely there are metaphors to be found here in parenting and the path that they’re about to hear. I mean, David, as you as you hear them talking, I’m like, oh, I hear that like when I get up at five, and then somebody else lounges till seven, but when he gets up at five, and to listen back to this conversation in a few years because I think we’re preempting a few things.
David:
Well, this will be in the divorce decree. I think this video in particular will be ground yeah, for the grounds. No, but but but seriously, you are if you’re penny pinching, that’s really smart because you guys are in the middle of the surrogacy process. Is that correct? Thank you.
SPEAKER_03:
Yes, we are thank you for seeing the value in something that that seems so ridiculous to do in the morning.
David:
Tell us a little bit about um where you guys are in the process right now. Do you did you just start? Are you pregnant?
SPEAKER_03:
Where are you at? Oh man, okay. So we’ve been doing surrogacy for a year and a half now. Um, and we have embryos. We have, I think, five, five of them. And uh, we are looking for a surrogate. So we’re like, yeah, like you said, knee deep in the surrogacy journey.
SPEAKER_04:
Yeah, I was like, it’s that’s a loaded question to ask. Like, are you just beginning? Because like six months into this process is like sort of just beginning, right? Like totally.
David:
It could be no anything. So like because there’s like contracts and there’s egg retrieval and donors and all of the things. Yeah, but and when straight people say, like, we’re trying, it’s like, you’re telling me you’re fucking. Like, I don’t know what, like, that like but so like that’s the only process, that’s the only process they’re into. For us, yeah, we’re in the middle of contracts, we’re negotiating with a whatever, but so you guys and the quick jerk off is just one teensy bit of it. The ejaculation part is very, very guys have to do things too. But you you guys are kind of you know, surrogacy is kind of financially at least can be split in half, right? Like there’s the creating of the embryos IVF side of it, and then once those are frozen, you have a little bit of time if you want to recover financially. I know some people that you know the process is extraordinarily expensive. But um, so but now you guys are searching for a surrogate, is that correct?
SPEAKER_03:
Yeah, yes, we are looking. And no luck yet. So if you’re out there and listening and happen to be a female who wants to have a baby but not your own, let us know. Not that we’ve not had any inquiries.
Gavin:
I was gonna say, surely, this is like online dating. So how’s it how’s that been?
SPEAKER_04:
We’ve had actually quite a few, you know, people message us soft inquiries, you know, of just like I live here, I haven’t been a surrogate, or I have been a surrogate, and I have this many kids, and I do this for work, and that’s uh that sort of thing.
SPEAKER_03:
And um there’s so many factors to consider in there, and I think like one of the biggest things for us is just like distance-wise, how far away are they? Absolutely. We would really love to find somebody who’s in we’re we live in Portland, Oregon. So Oregon or Washington, Northern California, somewhere where it’s like close enough where we feel just a little bit more involved and able to be there.
SPEAKER_04:
I didn’t have that thought at the beginning. I sort of just thought, oh, it won’t really matter. We fly all the time, you know, like we can just fly to wherever it works best. And then now I’m like, that’s really inconvenient. And it would be really nice if we were doing this more in our backyard. Inconvenient’s one way of putting it.
David:
But yeah. But it’s true. I just had this conversation. Uh a listener reached out to me yesterday and he was talking about like, I would really love to know about what it feels like to be quote unquote pregnant, but the there’s not a growing belly around you. And I was saying, you know, it is a weird part of being gay men in this process, is that there is this weird kind of nine months of lead up for people who see this belly growing where you can kind of like there’s a visual kind of ticked, you know, uh uh clock uh ticking. And for us, both of our surrogates were in Portland, actually, and we live in the New York City area. So we were just we would visit and we went to a couple doctors’ appointments, but there was not this thing in our house. It was just one day we were parents, and it is a it is totally weird and different.
Gavin:
It’s very on brand also for this this era, too. Unfortunately, it’s like you just order something on Amazon and suddenly it shows up and you don’t actually see it happening, which is too bad. Maybe you guys you guys should join Amazon Prime.
David:
Maybe that’s what you need.
SPEAKER_04:
Is there an Amazon baby? You know, there’s Amazon Prime video, Amazon Prime.
David:
You know, it’s gotta be Amazon Prime Baby.
SPEAKER_03:
I would not put it past.
Gavin:
It’s the new stork and it’s the new delivery service. The new Amazon surrogate.
David:
That’d be amazing. My God, yeah, that’d be amazing.
SPEAKER_04:
Did you guys do IVF in Oregon as well?
David:
We did everything in Oregon, yeah. We um so our first surrogate was my sister-in-law. Shout out to Erin, my uh my sister-in-law, who’s amazing and a lot of reasons, but also um uh she was our first surrogate. And so she lived there. So we we knew we were gonna use her. Uh we had already agreed to it. So we were just like, well, we might as well get our egg donor there, uh, our cut our all of our contracts. We just kind of did all of that. So when we were ready for uh the second time, we knew that all of our stuff just lived in Portland. So we tried to find a Portland surrogate, and we did. Amy, shout out to Amy, who’s also a listener. All right. Um, and and so it ended up working out really well. Like that was the reason we were in Portland, no other reason. And I think sometimes when people start, they’re like, I don’t like you just kind of wherever the people are, wherever the donor is, and and you guys I think are with an agency as well. So wherever your agency uh works, so you guys actually met over your over your um Coming out videos on YouTube, isn’t that correct? Yes. Yes. Tell me what happened. Tell me the length of time from when you first spoke to each other to when one of you was on a flight. I would like to know the time frame of that.
SPEAKER_04:
I think it was three weeks. No, no, it was four weeks. Four ish weeks.
David:
And then you were on a plane.
SPEAKER_04:
Yeah. So I think um Michael was living in Nebraska. Communication was established on like May 1st or 2nd, probably. And then I was on a plane June 4th. So it was, I think that’s exactly almost exactly four weeks. Oh my god.
Gavin:
That’s a great leap of faith, though. I mean, talk about a brave move and it could be.
David:
Because you could have shown up and this person not be a real person or ghosted you or whatever. Him be not not a real person.
SPEAKER_04:
I mean, he had an online presence for like five-ish years. So I that was part of it. I was like, I can go back and I can see like he’s okay, so he’s at, you know, his university or whatever, he’s talking about being at college, like he’s talking about being in Seattle. Michael did his research. I’m like, there’s no way. I’m like also he didn’t seem very suspicious, right? And he doesn’t just strike. They never do. Like catfishing. They never do. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:
Yeah. Um we never actually admitted our feelings for one another until we met when we met in person. So it was four weeks of like three-hour Skype sessions.
Gavin:
And why did you fly across the country? Was it well, I was gonna say, like you were flying out to make out, or were you flying out to be like, I don’t know what else to do with my life, so I’m gonna go meet this person in real life?
SPEAKER_03:
That’s a good question.
SPEAKER_04:
So I had like dipped my toe into the YouTube space, right? Like earlier that year. So he had been on YouTube for like six, seven years, probably. And I had just like kind of discovered this whole world of YouTube right after I came out, and I watched a bunch of coming out videos, and then I found out people had channels, and so, anyways, there’s this whole snowball effect, and then we yeah, I saw his coming out video, and then he posted a one year after encouraging other people, so then I posted, and then we connected, and I was like, I feel like we have so much in common. He was kind of on on track to go to med school at that time. I was going to dental school in the fall. I had like kind of tried, I was on a gap year. I kind of dipped my toe into the YouTube universe. I was like, kind of interested, like, do I just need to cut this off like once dental school starts? Do I need to they were telling you at that point, like, erase your presence online, people are gonna find something stupid and fire you or not hire you or whatever it’ll be this whole scandal. Um, and so I was like not really sure what to do with this whole social media thing. And so I was like, oh, well, um maybe I can ask him because we seem like we have a lot in common. We were both raised Catholic. We came out, you know, in our 20s, that sort of thing. And so for me it was like, I just want to like I don’t know, I need a sounding board. I just kind of come out and I was like ready to ask him all the questions about about things that I thought we could relate on. What did he ask? And then there was this what were some of the questions he asked? I oh no. Why Matthews is being stirring the pot. Well, but there was a there was a YouTube convention in like August in Seattle, and I was like, oh well, this would be kind of a neat way to meet. And I was like, well, I’ll just meet you, you know. I’ll just I’ll plan on coming out in August for like this vlogger fair. Um, and then he responded with like, what if I want you to come out sooner? Oh then I was like, did we do it in that voice? That’s how I read it.
David:
No.
SPEAKER_03:
I don’t know.
SPEAKER_04:
Probably probably pretty close. And then you met and then you fell in love. That’s why it it ended up being some basically sooner.
SPEAKER_03:
Long story short, is like we met and we fell in love. Yeah, that is very I think we said I love you on like the third day.
David:
I mean, you guys really are absorbing this lesbian. Lesbians, yeah, we’re living in right away. We are exactly where we were meant to be.
SPEAKER_03:
I was even driving a Subaru.
David:
See, that’s what I’m saying. I have a Subaru ascent parked outside my house, right? I fully embrace all the lesbians. I wear our Birkenstocks.
SPEAKER_03:
Or I’m barefoot, so that’s it. That’s true.
Gavin:
I’m bringing this back to the gay shit now, all right? Oh, so I uh when I had to fill out a questionnaire about being a parent. They said, What is your biggest fear about being a parent? And to this day it is the same one, which is I’m afraid I will never backpack across India. I really want to travel to India. Okay, but I I really want to I’ve romanticized the idea that I get to be on a train and I get to go across and I’ll never have the runs and ever all the food’s gonna be great. And and they said the the agency said, Well, you can do it. You’ll just have a kid strapped to your back.
David:
And I’m like, No, absolutely not. That’s hopefully like wait next month, next month, although when this episode airs, I’ll have already gone, but we’re going to Scotland for a week. And guess what? We’re not bringing the fucking kids. Yeah. Because I had the same thing where I was having like a little bit of a midlife crisis, and I was like, Why are why do we not travel? We keep saying, eh, that’s so hard with the kids. Maybe next year, maybe next year. I was like, I’m gonna maybe next year until I’m 50, and then I’m not gonna have done anything, and then I’m gonna be too tired of doing anything. So I was like, we’re going to Scotland for a week. So I guess by the time this episode airs, we have just come back.
Gavin:
So So how was your trip? How was it? Scotland was great.
David:
Yeah, it was fantastic. Oh, we saw Bristols, we saw Harry Potter.
Gavin:
And mainly we didn’t have your Did you miss your kids? Who did so, guys? So, Michael and Matt, you guys have been traveling now for a long time and a lot of traveling. And you partly want to be dads because you’re tired of the traveling, or do you want to take babies along for the ride?
SPEAKER_03:
Kind of both. Um, I’m really enjoying my time in Portland right now, but I mean, we’re entering into summer. Things are a little bit better than when they are in the winter. Yeah. So that has something to do with it. But yeah, we’ve traveled so much over the last few years, which has been incredible. And then at the same time, we’re like kind of burnt out by it. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:
It’s it’s it’s I love I love traveling. I love exploring like new parts of the world and experiencing new things. Um, but I also liked to recharge a little bit, and we just went really hard at the beginning of this year, and both of us are like, we’re good. Like, we’re good for the year. Like we went like five or six different places.
SPEAKER_03:
I just want to stay home.
David:
Well, no, I think because part of it is honestly, the I think the real part is you guys are getting older, which is not like you guys are old, but like as you’ve done your young 20s travel goal, like the it it becomes less desirable. And you know, as I said earlier in the episode, laying down in your bit cold basement watching succession by yourself sounds real, real fucking nice and fantastic. So, no, I totally, totally get that. I want to talk a little bit about social media because you guys, so Michael, you’re a dentist, Matt, you’re a writer and a vlogger and a you know, photographer and stuff, but like you another business that you guys do is social media. And I feel like it’s easy to be like, oh yeah, I’m on social media, that’s my business. But I want to know what does it actually fucking mean? Like, how do you actually make money being existing online? Like, I I I’m I’m curious, and I guarantee you, people who are listening are like, okay, but like you don’t have to tell us obviously the numbers, but like I know that like you can be in the creator fund on TikTok, but what does it actually mean?
SPEAKER_04:
This is a giant Pandora’s box with a lot of answers.
SPEAKER_03:
Yeah, if you want to you go ahead. Generally, like it’s just like running a small business, you know, for the most part. Um, it’s difficult and it changes all the time. It’s a very volatile uh environment to be in. But I’ve I mean, I’ve been working in it since 2007, uh, when I first started on YouTube, and I I started making money uh within a year of being on YouTube, and that was through they didn’t even have like a you know a creator fund or ad sense or anything like that on YouTube at that point, but we were able to like um, you know, do one-off deals with different companies that were like just starting to figure stuff out, so it was such an early stage, and then that’s just evolved over the years to become more and more, and it’s not just like one thing or one income source, like we have Instagram and YouTube and TikTok. And they’re all different, I assume, of how they pay you and what what their metrics are. Totally, but the vast majority of the income comes from advertisers, so when you see ads, paid partnerships on Instagram, TikTok, etc., like that is gonna be your bread and butter for income.
SPEAKER_04:
I was gonna say the platform itself is not where you make most or much income at all, unless you are like Mr. Beast on YouTube and every single video hits like 20 million views or whatever.
David:
He just opened up his first brick and mortar literally five minutes down the road from me at the American Dream Mall. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:
Because then you’re making like, you know,$20,000 per video. Yeah. And so if all of your videos are hitting like 20 million views, then you’re making an advantage. Then obviously you’re making then that is obviously a significant uh source of income. But like not not a lot of people can hit like millions and mil millions and millions of views on every single video that they have. Right. TikTok’s even, you know, it’s it’s very it’s variable. Um, you know, the creator fund again, if you’re hitting millions and millions of views, can be somewhat significant, but it still pales it pales in comparison to essentially the I I think of it as like real estate that advertisers purchase to put on your platform. So I think of it as like any like think of it as like a billboard or like Times Square. Like it’s it’s gonna be way more expensive to put your billboard in front of a bunch of people in Times Square than it is like in the middle of Iowa, right? On like a highway. So and that’s just like how many, how many eyes you have, you know?
SPEAKER_03:
So I I think it’s difficult because you’re navigating this really unpredictable algorithm and it’s changing all the time, no matter like what social media platform you’re on, is just changing all the time. So it’s very hard to kind of like adjust from that, but it’s like putting stuff out, having to pivot, putting stuff out, having to pivot. Like, you know, you’re constantly producing and putting your life out there for people, but when does it tip over from business into fun or fun into business?
SPEAKER_04:
I think it it I think it has a little bit of both. There’s fun moments. So like some of it is kind of like strictly business, but then sometimes you get to work with brands that you’re actually like that are like really fun to work with, and you’re like kind of excited that they reached out to you. Um, some of the travel opportunities, I think, for us, like some have been kind of very business-y and and like we just sort of like went through it, and then some have been like just the most amazing experience that we’ve ever had in our life. And so I it just really ebbs and flows.
Gavin:
As a couple, have you ever traveled surely for pleasure with your phones completely off?
SPEAKER_04:
Never off. But for pleasure, yes, but phones never off, which then means not for pleasure because then we’re documenting stuff, we’re documenting stuff to like post on Instagram and TikTok and yeah.
David:
Um okay, so going from social media, you’re gonna have a kid. I I believe very wholeheartedly by 2023, at the end of 2023, you guys are gonna be pregnant. So in 2024, you’re gonna have a kid. Do you anticipate absorbing them into your current kind of social media world, or do you think it will change, or do you not want to have them a part of that?
SPEAKER_04:
That is um that is such a kind of uh tricky question that I’ve actually listened to a lot of creators talk about on like different podcasts or on their social media, and um I think that there’s a way I think immediate most immediately, and to be fair, we haven’t like you know laid out like a plan of like how we would do this. Um, because a lot of times we just sort of like it take it as it comes, and if it’s if it feels natural or right or like you know, good, then then we’ll um we’ve we’re pretty transparent people, but obviously like just throwing our child’s face on our social media like 24-7 is probably, you know, obviously not the plan. I think in the most immediate sense, we would more talk about our experience like as parents and you know, like what that’s like. And um I also have like a pretty big like I love educating if I’m like if I’ve if I know something, I like educating other people on it. Um and we have like great friends and family members who are um like child development specialists. Um so I definitely could see part of our social media sort of like um branching off into just that, like, hey, this is what kids do or think, or this is how their brain is growing at this time.
David:
Well, you guys just started a new podcast right last month. Look at that. You guys talk about families. Tell us about your podcast you just released.
unknown:
Go ahead.
SPEAKER_03:
Yeah, so who’s your daddy is a podcast?
David:
Genius title.
SPEAKER_03:
There’s a long list of them for me, but continue. About non-traditional past the parenthood. So Saragacy, IVF, adoption, foster to adopt, IUI, all the things. Theft. Um, theft theft. Just grab a baby. Amazon delivery. No. I have not thought about this.
David:
Wait, can I tell you a story I’ve told on the podcast before? But when I went to Iceland, people told me that people would just leave their babies in the strollers outside the restaurants when they would go in. And I was like, you’re you’re lying. You’re like, like, maybe they’re not as close to the table. Um, I went to Iceland and there are just strollers on the street with babies in them? Free babies. You’re free babies outside. And people inside.
SPEAKER_04:
So if you need a baby last minute, hop on and to leave babies outside like they like dogs.
SPEAKER_03:
I’ve always wanted to go to Iceland. And if I can get a baby, three babies. Three babies in Iceland.
SPEAKER_04:
Wait, why do they do they do that just because?
SPEAKER_03:
Because it’s so safe.
SPEAKER_04:
Do they just go inside and have like a nice brunch?
David:
Yes, so they go get ruined, so it’s not ruined. Literally, people inside eating by themselves, whether infants are outside. Also, my friend who is from Sweden said when she would cry in the middle of the night, her mom would just put her in her stroller and wheel her out to like the courtyard of the apartment building they lived in, and then she would go upstairs and go back to sleep. The cold air. Well, the cold air would like calm her down, but you know, she was like wrapped up and stuff, but it’s just culturally different. Like nobody steals babies there, which is why you guys should go.
SPEAKER_04:
They’re not expecting it.
SPEAKER_03:
We had a similar um not to And if you get arrested, uh the I heard the prisons are really nice and I’m gonna do it. They’re super nice, and they have they all have steam rooms and like saunas and stuff.
Gavin:
Yeah, you’re you’re given your own cell phone, the dot the dudes are no doubt hot, and the security guards. Come on. Have you ever been to a win-win?
SPEAKER_04:
Have you ever been to Japan? No. Um, one of the craziest things that I remember about Japan is that we’re all on the subway. We are shoulder to shoulder, and then all of a sudden, this little like she had to have been eight years old. Uh, little girl with a pink backpack walks on right after school, headphones on, just walks in by herself, and just like sits on the train. And I’m like, Where’s the adult? Where’s the adult? Like, where’s the adult? There’s no adult, there’s no adult. Eight-year-old kids can ride the subway safely in Japan, and that to me was insane.
David:
Yeah, the difference in the cultures where they the the thing I think in Japan they all consider all children everyone’s responsibility. So they, you know, but here effectively decided.
Gavin:
And well what what other uh along that line, um, I’m sure you’ve thought a lot about what you’ve learned about parenting during your travels. Do you have other w bits of wisdom that you can share with us from anywhere from Tampa to Nairobi?
SPEAKER_04:
Oh my gosh. Um, I think I think one thing that I have noticed is that like going different places in the world, and you obviously see a lot of different socioeconomic situations. Um, and I feel like in a lot of situations where you would see them as having less, you see kids with bigger smiles on their faces and they’re outside more and they’re just like exploring and like doing things on their own. Um that’s true.
SPEAKER_03:
There’s something to say about minimalism when it comes to um kids having a good time and using their imagination and having fun. So I’ve seen that yeah, in countries all around the world, and it it seems like you know, the you don’t need to have all these super fancy toys, electronics, gadgets, things like that, and the kids can be super, super happy just playing outside. Um, and I don’t know how exactly to approach a parenting technique that could parallel that here in the US because we’re surrounded by technology, materialism, etc. So it’s it’s really hard. I don’t know. I I feel like that’s a very difficult thing to do here.
SPEAKER_04:
Yeah, and I’ve also I’ve also thought about it considering like, you know, obviously we are very uh front-facing on the internet and gaven is usually back facing, but that’s a different thing. Um and so trying to figure out a way like how are we gonna balance, you know, not having our kids obsessed with screens and phones, but also like continue to document and can have a healthy environment around. I think that’s gonna be interesting to navigate interesting to navigate, yeah.
Gavin:
And I would imagine also injecting my own opinion about the um influencership there is that if you go down a path where you are suddenly um ambassadors for baby companies who are all gonna be absolutely after you, then you’re suddenly like getting a bunch of shit, which by the way, David’s and my unsolicited advice is you don’t need anything. You need nothing. And so then you guys, here’s your challenge is like, do you go down the path of selling shit that is almost none of it is actually necessary? Furthermore, you’re just burdening, you’re spending more money, you’re burdening your kid, yourselves, with just like accumulation of stuff when in reality you guys have seen firsthand it is about the minimalism and just like simpling it down. Man, well, when it brings it down, Gaven. It’s like hottest. That’s what I’m here for with. And let’s talk about some gay shit. Where are the hottest guys in all of your travels, and where’s the gayest country you’ve ever visited?
SPEAKER_03:
Oh, this is really good. The game is really good.
SPEAKER_04:
The game.
SPEAKER_03:
Well, the hottest guys. Spain. Oh, yeah, ish. I don’t know. I so the first country I visited outside the US was Sweden because I had the hardest crush on a Swedish man who had a lot of people. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Biggest crush. The hardest. Well, it was also very hard. Uh-huh. Difficult. It was difficult because he was straight. And I had that old story. Yeah. Yeah. And I decided, like, oh, he was well, he was an exchange student, he was going back to Sweden after a year in the US. And I was like, oh, well, you’re my best friend. I’m gonna go with you and just spend time together in Sweden and shower together. Yeah. Just a little bit. Exactly. But yeah, so he was straight, not interested in me, was not a great time. I was like, did you figure that out in Stockholm? Like after you got out of the airplane or on the plane. And I was like heavily in the closet. I’ll change him. Like, I’m like, yeah, I was kind of yeah. Yeah.
David:
I mean, we literally that is the tail as old as time. We all have to go through that. That straight crush where in our heads are like, maybe they’re like questioning, or maybe, maybe I can get them there. No.
SPEAKER_03:
That was my first experience abroad, and there’s just something about Swedish men that like was ingrained in my mind.
SPEAKER_04:
Is that not the Heartstopper fantasy, right? 100%. 100%. Like open gay kid and then like rugby star, right?
David:
It’s totally something is awakened in the rugby star, and it’s just 18.
SPEAKER_03:
We were play playing soccer outside every day, shirtless with all his friends. Like I was, oh my god.
SPEAKER_04:
Like living the dream, but also like the most angsty teenager. Like overwhelmed. It’s amazing. Um, but I think I actually do remember, I feel like when we were in Portugal, was it Portugal? We were walking around. Oh, and I don’t know Portugal’s not a very big country. That is a good point, my every time I was weird as a bigger one. What is in the water? What is happening here? Portugal had the most attractive man.
SPEAKER_03:
Sweden, Portugal wins. Yeah.
David:
I remember living in the Czech Republic, and everywhere I walked, I was like, are you Bellamy? Are you on Bellamy? Are you on Bellamy? Are you on Bellamy?
SPEAKER_03:
Yeah, definitely that. I also felt incredibly self-conscious walking around Portugal because I’m like, I am just an ugly. I was like, holy crap, I felt so incompetent.
David:
One of my first jobs when I moved to New York City was like, I had to usher New York Fashion Week. And I was I had to like block backstage, so I could see all these models walking in, and I was like, I hate myself. What like I hate myself? These people are walking in here and they look like a million dollars. Um, anyway, um, thank you guys so much for coming by. Our time is up, but everyone out there, please subscribe to their new podcast, which is called Who’s Your Daddy? Who’s your daddy? And obviously, follow them on all the socials. And I think by the end of this year, you guys are gonna be uh pregnant. So I’m very excited for you guys. So fingers crossed for you.
Gavin:
Can we have a part two?
David:
Yeah, let’s have we’ll bring you guys back when you’re pregnant.
Gavin:
So, my something great is what’s getting me through the summer, and frankly, getting me through my life and parenting, and that is bribery. I just go back and forth constantly trying to say no to my kids, and there’s utter addiction to screen time, and I just bribe them by saying, You gotta read. You gotta read half an hour, and you can earn another 15 minutes of screen time. It is so tough to stick to that, but bribery, that’s my something great. How about you, David? Uh, mine is extortion.
David:
No, I’m kidding. Um so my something great is actually uh drag queen story hour, which as we know was the hot button issue last month with Pride. But and obviously I totally support drag queens and story hour and all the bullshit is bullshit. So, but I actually had never been to one. Oh. Um, I had seen them on YouTube, I understood what they were, but I had never actually been to one.
Gavin:
So like 99% of the population and the people who hate it who have never been to it. Correct.
David:
So um, so I’m also a hypocrite, just like they are. So anyway, so last month during um our local town’s pride, they had um a drag queen named Harmonica Sunbeam, which a number one, great name. Totally. Um, and she came to do um Drag Queen Story Hour. Um, and the pride is all in like one park, and there’s like one band shell where all the performances happen. And we just happened to be walking by when she started reading. So we’re like, oh, let’s sit down. So my three and a half-year-old and my one-year-old, we and my husband and I, we all sat down and we watched her read, Gavin. It was fucking great. Yeah. It was great, it was she was so funny. And she did the thing where like she’d, you know, you know, read a page of the book and then she, what about you kids? Have you ever wanted to have a pet? And kids would like scream, and she’s like, Yeah, like it was it was so wonderful. And it was just she was wearing a big moo moo and this like clown wig. And I was like, what is the problem here? Yeah, exactly. And so I fucking reached out to her and I was like, You were great. How what’s your Venmo? I want to tip you. And I tipped her 20 bucks because I was like, listen, you don’t that was worried. You you did this probably voluntarily. You were great. I hate that you’re having to deal with all the bullshit you’re dealing with. Nice. So I was like, here’s fucking 20 bucks. So anyway, my yeah, my something great, dry queen story hour with harmonica sunbeam.
Gavin:
And that is our show. If you have any comments, suggestions, or general compliments, you can email us at gatriarchspodcast at gmail.com.
David:
Or you can DM us on Instagram. We are at Gatriarchspodcast on the internet. David is at David FM VaughnEverywhere, and Gavin is at GavinLodge on Pornhub.
Gavin:
Please leave us a glowing five-star review wherever you get your podcasts.
David:
Thanks, and we’ll see you next time on another episode of Gatriarchs.
Gavin:
Let’s see just how much you know about parenting.
unknown:
Okay.
Gavin:
Will your kids watch TV? Yes. Will they have iPads? Eventually. Will they be allowed to have chicken nuggets? No. Are they gonna sleep in your bed with you? No, not often. Will you text when you’re sitting playing with them? No.
SPEAKER_04:
Unless I have to.
Gavin:
Do you think you’re gonna get bored? Yes. No. What’s the first solid food they’re gonna eat? Will you be heating bottles?
David:
Yes. Yes. For the last question will you allow a drag queen to read a book to them?
SPEAKER_03:
Yes. Hello,