Full Transcript
Speaking of not at all Namibia, tell us about it. Sorry. I that was felt like it felt wrong. And this is Gatriarch. David, I just want to grow up to be an old lady. You kind of walk, I want to walk through life with the entitlement that I witnessed the other day at Lowe’s of an old woman who walks past three people who are awkwardly standing in line in the paint aisle, including myself. Because we’re all waiting to talk to that poor guy who’s like, listen, this is just I this is not my passion in life, is to be the paint guy in the paint section at Lowe’s. All of you are breathing down my back. It’s a Saturday morning. I don’t know why they didn’t hire more people to work here at 10, 11:30 on a Saturday morning at Lowe’s in the paint section. And then up comes this woman who says, Hey, Clark. And I’m like, Oh, she must know him. And he turns and she’s like, Clark, I’m looking for that spray paint that’s for furniture. Where is that? And he’s like, uh, right over there. She walks away without thanking him. And I realized that bitch just walked up, looked at his name tag, skipped beyond all of us, and she got exactly what she needed. And frankly, it was very efficient. She had a quick question, it’s fine. But I want to grow up in life with the entitlement of somebody who just pushes past a line and addresses a person by their first name because they’re wearing the name tag. A name tag is not, it does not mean that you’re supposed to use the name, I don’t think. This is another discussion entirely. What? But I don’t think that Clark should have been addressed by his name because Clark immediately thought, oh, I’m gonna listen to this broad, you know.
David:
Man, when I’m an old lady, I am gonna j I’m gonna steal stuff. I’m gonna cut lines. Do you know what I mean? Like, I I have done enough shit in my life to where like I don’t have to follow the rules anymore. I’m gonna commit crimes, I’m gonna do all kinds of fucked up shit when I’m old.
Gavin:
Well, that woman did not, she had no zero fucks to give, that’s for sure. And I guess I that’s kind of the story is I want to walk through the entitlement of having no fucks to give.
David:
Um, my son has no fucks to give because we were playing Play-Doh the other day, and I went to do some of the dishes and I came back around the corner, and he’s stuffing Play Doh in the head of his penis, like in the foreskin. He’s stuffing, he’s stuffing his penis full of play-doh, and I had to say out loud, for real, please don’t put play-doh in your penis. And so these are things that you don’t see on the brochure of what you need to know um about parenting and the things that you’re gonna have to say.
Gavin:
Is this the moment in the Gay Triarch’s um story where we talk about whether or not to um uh circumcise our children? Have we not talked about this already?
David:
I don’t think so. I feel like we have, but if we haven’t, I mean, I’m sure I don’t know if you went through this, but um a lot of gay, I you see it a lot in the gay dad um kind of groups online is like, should we or should we not? And then it just seems to everyone is very passionate about their side. Is it is a weirdly passionate issue for guys. And so when we were having kids, I remember us kind of casually having the discussion. And then when it was time to decide, it it felt significant. Now, my husband and I are both circumcised, and we were just we just kept saying, like, why, why would we? Like, what what is you know what are the what’s the data out there? But also it just felt so fucking pointless and cruel to do and architect. It just like I I was just I just there was there’s no religion behind it for us. There was no so what we’re left with was like, I want my kid to look like me. It felt like I had to walk to school, so you have to walk to school. And I was like, I don’t think we need to do it, and I think we made the absolute right decision. But I see every I have friends and family who have done the opposite, and it I totally get it because you just don’t know what to do.
Gavin:
It’s all right, but it is uh it is we’re living in an interesting time now where people do have that open discussion about like, wait, why why have we done this for you know why why has one society, America, done this for the last 80 years or so? It’s a fascinating history, but now your kid gets to smuggle Play-Doh wherever he wants. And I think that you have given him a tremendous gift.
David:
He one time in the bath I will never forget, he had like he has these like little plastic, it’s kind of like what like a G.I. Joe would look like, but they were from Wendy’s, of course, because that’s the only place to go. It was the toy you got in the meal, and he he would put like their feet or their hand, whatever is like the extended part, in, and then he’d stand up and it was like hanging from his dick. And it was so funny, but also like, please take the GI Joe out of your penis. I I just I I maybe I should have gotten them circumcised because then I wouldn’t have to be saying these things, but it is it is weird how much fascination. I have some friends who are uncircumcised, and I’ve asked them, I’m like, do you do this? Do you do X, Y, and Z? They’re like, Oh yeah, we do that. And I’m like, oh, well, it’s just part of this community I’m not a part of.
Gavin:
Yeah, that is wow. I cannot wait for the Wayback Machine to find this episode in 10 years and for your son to hate.
David:
He’s gonna be so pissed. But um, speaking of uh kind of things that gay dads talk about and and and some controversial things, I witnessed something in some of the gay fathers groups online. I don’t know if you saw, I’m curious to get your take on, which is they were talking about when and if, like you’re asked, hey, if you if you did gestational surrogacy, who is the biological dad? Right? Like that is a common question that I have gotten a billion times that I want to ask because I’m just curious. And they were basically saying, should we tell people who ask? Right. And of course, there’s a sliding scale, they’re like a stranger on the street, it’s not their business, but also like your family. And so it was an interesting discussion. And I’ve very I’ve always been like, yeah, I I I’m not offended by the ask. I am also curious, and I will tell you, but I understand how maybe some people find it uh like a too sensitive question to ask. What do you think? Really?
Gavin:
Wait, do you mean people find it too sensitive, the asker or the ask-e?
David:
Like to to be asking somebody, either your family member or a stranger who has gone through donor-conceived um surrogacy, yeah, who is the biological parent?
Gavin:
I guess there’s different ways of looking about this, but it’s funny. I was listening to the radio just the other day, and it was the radio.
David:
You’re a billion episode.
Gavin:
It was MPR, of course. And it was a Pride episode, and they were interviewing a woman who is a lesbian with children, and she was saying, How dare people ask me how I made my family? It’s not their business, and I don’t feel like it’s an I don’t feel like I need to share that with anybody. And I was taken aback by that because I’m like, well, isn’t this part of representation? Isn’t this part of flying a pride flag and saying, here I am? And it’s exciting to talk about um how you made your family, I think. And it normalizes it for people who are curious or don’t know how it’s done. Now, in terms of asking who is the biological parent, I’ve never had a problem telling it. Um, I want my kids to know it. I don’t think it’s any, it doesn’t need to be a secret.
David:
And I think that’s that’s the crux of it right there, is that like it is part of your story. And so don’t be ashamed of it. I I get the other side, which is I think like the I don’t want to be looked at as less the less than parent or something like that. But I don’t, I have never felt that in my life. I I I I know prior to becoming a dad, it was biology was very important to me because I was worried I wouldn’t feel that way. And when I tell you, I think of me not being biologically related to my daughter zero times. I mean zero times, other than people every once in a while like, oh, you look like your son. I’m like, yeah, because we both have blonde hair. I don’t ever consider our connection different than my husband’s, but I get how you could feel that way.
Gavin:
And it’s I think it’s important to also, this is a part of transparency and having kind of mature conversations with your kids, not mature as in above their grade level, but that it is okay for your kid to realize that they came about in a different way, but you also love them unconditionally and you are a family. And sometimes families get crafted in different ways, and that is okay.
David:
Um technically I love my non-biological kid way more than my biological kid. Yeah. Like leaps and bounds.
Gavin:
Speaking of relatable, I have a couple of hacks that I have recently researched for us. Okay. Okay. You know how your kids come up with like crazy ideas like, oh, we should go do this, or I want to go do that, or blah, blah, blah, blah. And you think, how do I just get out of this? And just, you know, I don’t want to say no right now, but I came across a recent uh hack that basically is you have an idea place, like a folder in the kitchen where you write down ideas, and a kid comes up with a great idea, be it go to Disneyland or I want to dye my hair blue or whatever, and we don’t have time to do it right now, put it in a folder where you keep your ideas. And those are ideas that you can go back and refer to. And often kids just need to get it off their chest and they want to know they’ve been heard, and so go write it down in an idea place, huh?
David:
And so the idea is that like you put it in this book and then you promptly ignore it. Yes, pretty much. Yeah, you’re welcome.
Gavin:
You’re welcome. Next part is um when a kid is having a problem with something rather than just trying to um solve the problem for them, like tying their shoe or uh solving a math problem or whatever, asking them what is the tricky part for you? Because it may not be the entire act of tying their shoe, it might be just like the first loop or the second loop. And helping them isolate what is the actual problem can help them be better problem solvers themselves. Okay. And then also, I always felt like when my kids were really little and we had way too many toys, uh, they were overwhelmed by all the toys and they would very frequently easily get bored because they had basically overstimulation and too much shit all around them. So when I started to hide toys and things would disappear and they honestly wouldn’t even notice. But then um every week or so, I would think to myself, oh, I should go get that other thing. I would bring it out, and it was like a brand new toy. Oh, yeah. That that um entertained them for at least four and a half minutes. And oh yeah, I was able to neglect them and go get on my phone.
David:
Oh, the the circle of toys we do that in our house. We have like three areas where like toys go and then they go away, and then they get in the staging area. And it is literally like Christmas Eve. They’re like, oh my god!
Gavin:
They’re on deck, they’re on deck.
David:
It’s literally on deck, it’s on the deck in the dugout. Wait, no, on base. What are the uh it’s this is beyond my my competition.
Gavin:
Well, I was thinking of auditions.
David:
That was an actor like a baseballs.
Gavin:
Um, that’s on deck too. I never made that comparison, isn’t it? Isn’t it? Yeah, that’s true.
David:
Um, no, but uh we we for sure do that, and when I have brought things out like like infant toys, my son saw the you know the little saucer you sit in as a baby and it has like stuff around it in a circle. We went to the garage and my son found it. He played with it for an hour.
Gavin:
We used to call that the uh neglectomatic 2000. Because you can just right, yeah.
David:
That is fantastic.
Gavin:
Or his office, our kid’s office. Oh, yeah, we did the office.
David:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Gavin:
Um, and then uh sometimes we like to talk about news in the world, and I have to say there’s an awful lot of shitty news for gays out there. Uh, but it there was uh one little highlight that um in Namibia, the high court has decriminalized homosexuality. So there you go. Little bright rainbows moved to Namibia.
David:
Open your Zillow and see what’s going on in Namibia. You know what they don’t have in Namibia?
Gavin:
What?
David:
Our top three list. Gate remarks.
Gavin:
Top three list, three, two, one.
David:
God damn, that was hard. Um, this week is my list. Oh, thank God.
Gavin:
I was trying to think, wait, did I do this one or not? I am ready, but I thought, oh God, did I uh is this mine? Anyway, great.
David:
You have arguably never been ready for the top three list, but always pull through with three things, which is fucking fantastic. Including what, two weeks ago when you made it up on the spot?
Gavin:
Like I’m doing, like I’m doing right now. Uh-huh. Go ahead.
David:
Uh so this week it is top three things, do as I say, not as I do. We love to embrace our hypocrisy here on Gatriarchs. And so here are the top three things do as I say, not as I do. In number three for me, wash your hands. I never wash my hands. I never wash my hands unless I was cutting raw chicken. I never wash my hands.
Gavin:
And this is why every woman finds every man on the planet disgusting.
David:
We are. So uh in number two, eat well.
Gavin:
Yeah.
David:
Oh, eat well, eat eat vegetables, stop eating when you’re full, sugar is a sometime snack. Really, I really want you to eat well and think about food as fuel for your body. I don’t do that. I, you know the jumbo buckets of popcorn at movie theaters?
SPEAKER_01:
Yeah.
David:
Do you know that now if you buy a jumbo bucket, you get a free refill? Yes. I’ll blow through one and a half buckets by myself for the movie theater.
Gavin:
Damn.
David:
One and a half buckets. One and a half buckets.
Gavin:
Uh I’m rendered speechless. Why am I fat and tired all the time?
David:
Okay, and and number one, the thing that I want my kids to do that I do not do is just let it go. Just let things go. That’s a good thing. I still stew about that girl in fourth grade who called me gay when I didn’t deserve it. And then I did deserve it. I stew and stew and stew over the smallest shit, and I don’t want my kids to do that. So let things go. All right, what is your top three?
Gavin:
Okay. For me, uh the most basic one, no doubt, is number three, get off your phone. I mean, every the amount of times that I am literally on my phone in the midst of texting and turn to my child and say, get off your phone. Uh and I see the hypocrisy, thank God she hasn’t really called me on it. Um, and often when I’m just like, but I’m reading the New York Times, but yeah, that’s that’s a level of embarrassment for sure. Uh number two, don’t say bad words, don’t cuss. I mean, yeah. Yeah, that’s simple.
SPEAKER_01:
No.
Gavin:
And um, and finally, uh, we tend to have a little section in our fridge that has a bag of Reese’s mini Reese’s peanut butter cups. And I always say, please don’t have more than two, but I have 11 or 52 at night after the kids have gone to bed. Or frankly, at four o’clock in the afternoon. So the level of hypocrisy I have about Reese’s peanut butter cups is criminal. So yeah.
David:
Listen, we have said this since our literal first episode. We embrace the hypocrisy.
Gavin:
Absolutely. So what’s next week? Next week for our top three list, I want to hear about three tops. Just three tops. Okay.
David:
Top three tops. I cannot wait to see where this goes.
Gavin:
Our next guest is a journalist from Winnipeg who immediately sought us out because she gets the Gatriarch’s vibe. She’s been a writer for all things progressive, transgressive, aggressive, and obsessive. A queer mom of a queer kiddo. Welcome to Alicia Dacey. Hello, Alicia.
SPEAKER_00:
Hello, where’s my round of applause? Yay! Oh yeah, we can’t afford that.
Gavin:
We can’t afford those kind of sound by Tier Gatriarch. We don’t have those. Alicia, welcome. Without a round of applause, how has your kid driven you bonkers today?
SPEAKER_00:
You know what? My kid has been the opposite of bonkers today, which is very, very out of character for them.
David:
Usually you tell me I don’t know. Take that shit to another podcast.
SPEAKER_00:
Yeah, exactly.
Gavin:
My kid is so great, is another podcast, actually.
SPEAKER_00:
Yeah. No, but literally, like my kid came in and was like, hey mom, uh, I know you haven’t eaten anything. I’m gonna make you breakfast. Okay, that’s I know it is bizarre because usually the morning goes, Okay, get out of bed. Get out of bed. Get out of bed. Clean your own, get out of bed. Oh my god, oh my god, get out of bed. Uh yeah, we have reached that stage of teenagehood where uh the getting out of bed is impossible. And that is my daily annoyance right now.
David:
I feel like what I’m learning from you uh older people is that I mean older people as it parents of older children is that like is that the please put on your fucking shoes morphs into please get the fuck out of bed, which morphs into so it’s just the same conversation that we just have on repeat, but it just changes what the thing is that they’re not doing.
SPEAKER_00:
It’s very much a difference between, you know, go to the fuck to sleep to wake the fuck up. Yeah.
Gavin:
And but furthermore, I mean that that immediately makes me think about all the shit that I nag them about, like please pick up your shoes, click up, please pick up your room, please. There is no amount of passive aggressive stepping over of their crap to leave it there that I can tolerate. I can do it for three days, and after that I I hit the wall because I’m like, how have you not seen that that pile of clothes that you are literally stepping over to get to your bed is an impediment to your life?
David:
Come on. It becomes invisible. I it’s the same way with us at the the old, like because we have an upstairs and a downstairs, and there’s the old game where you have something that needs to go upstairs, so you put it on the farm stair tread and it lives there for weeks, weeks, and you just don’t see it anymore.
Gavin:
Yeah, absolutely. So, Alicia, you have not figured out how to get beyond that with your teenager.
SPEAKER_00:
No, and we have tried many, many things, especially that we have tried different alarm clocks, we have tried like the sunrise alarm clocks, we have set, you know, Google to be very, very loud, and uh it just gets turned off and she goes right back to sleep. Um and like the cleaning of the room thing. I actually just I took advice. I did the right parental thing and I said, okay, how do we deal with this so that you like pick the clothes up off your room? And they wanted two different hampers, you know, like dirty clothes hamper and a clean clothes hamper, and that’ll solve the problem. No, now the clothes just they’re still all over the room and the hampers are empty.
David:
I bet if you I bet if you tipped over like a bucket of snakes into her room, she’d pop right the fuck out of it. Right the fuck out of it.
SPEAKER_00:
Probably, probably. Yeah. It’s not a problem that is going to solve itself anytime soon. And to be fair, I was the same way. Thank you, undiagnosed ADHD. Um, you know, and I didn’t get my shit together until I was an adult. But uh uh, can can we just keep the stuff off the floor? Why is this so hard? Why is this so hard? You have a thousand different organizing shelves and buckets and everything, and no, it’s all on the floor. Everything.
Gavin:
No, real talk here. I hopefully I won’t get us all into trouble by saying it, but I know that you have written about ADHD, and I think it’s helpful to de destigmatize it and realize that so very, very many of us do have ADHD. When does ADHD when does the Venn diagram of ADHD overlap with teenage? Where you’re like, you’re just a fucking teenager. Like, but there’s there’s a very small percentage of teenagers who are the level of responsibility we hope they would be, where we’re like, oh, look, they don’t have any sort of mental impediment to being a the a highly functioning 48-year-old at the age of 14.
SPEAKER_00:
Right. And that is that really is the question, right? Like that’s something that we struggled with. And in fact, when my teen came to me and said, Mom, I think I have ADHD, I laughed because I thought, you don’t have ADHD. And then we did the assessment, and oh my, yeah, okay, they do. And um, you know, I kind of regret going, mm, you know, laughing in their face and you don’t have ADHD. But so many um, like women and you know, females, their ADHD is diagnosed as inattentive, which means they don’t have the hyperactive part of ADHD. It’s just your brain gets distracted and you go off into La La Land and you forget to do stuff, and it just a friend of mine was recently diagnosed, and she called it when she started meds, it was like taking mittens off. She had gone through her life wearing mittens, and now the mittens were off.
SPEAKER_02:
So she could still do stuff, but yeah, it was harder.
SPEAKER_00:
And after my kid was diagnosed, I was like, oh shit, she has like so many of the same symptoms I do. Oh my god, do I have it? And then I I had it and I it blew me away.
unknown:
Yeah.
David:
I think it’s I think part of probably what drives a lot of the I I feel that I’m always this way too, where like something becomes very prevalent and I I’m very much get off my lawn until I like come around or whatever. And kind of how you were feeling with like you don’t have ADHD. I think also what it the it it it’s almost like it’s like putting the word trans on something where you’re like, why is everyone trans now suddenly? It’s like, well, I don’t know if everyone’s trans suddenly. It’s just that when we when we when we make it okay to be that’s the left-handed thing that you’ve heard a million times. And I wonder if with ADHD, ADHD and mental health in general, because we’re like taking the stigma off a little bit, it does seem like everyone has debilitating cases of anxiety or ADHD versus like, oh, well, maybe that was already there and we’re just putting a name to it and that is a good thing. But I can get how people are like, why does everybody, why is everybody trans now? Yeah. I’m like, well, I don’t think everyone is trans now. Um, but I think that because transness is becoming less and less of a terrible thing that you should never ever be. People are like, oh, I guess I’ll just be my authentic self. So that maybe that’s what happened with AD ADHD. I have not said it correctly one time in that entire monologue, and I’m not cutting any of it out.
SPEAKER_00:
Okay, keep it. I think that’s fine. No, I’d agree with you there. Uh the stigma has, you know, come off. In Canada, there was a it actually was started with uh actually a corporate slogan on social media, you know, called Let’s Talk. Um, and it was ironic because the corporation was Bell Media, which um has probably the worst mental health plan in Canada. Uh, so the fact that they were spending millions of dollars to say, hey, let’s reduce the stigma of mental health, that did not go unnoticed, especially by the journalists who work for Bell Media. But um it did, it did achieve some effects and just in terms of um being able to talk about it freely. And especially as a journalist, um, it was actually extremely freeing because in journalism newsrooms, you do not talk about your mental health. Uh, you worry that you lose your job if you can’t handle the harder things. And it became um, you know, there are a lot of journalists out there with PTSD from what they saw in the newsroom just doing their job. And the fact that you didn’t talk about it, that’s also why, you know, the stereotypical journalist chain smokes and has, you know, whiskey in their desk because that’s how they dealt with their shit. So now that that has changed, at least here in Canada, I can’t speak for the US, um, that has changed greatly, but there’s still always still work to do.
Gavin:
For sure. A little bit of progress. Well, so one of the main questions I thought that it would be super interesting to have you here, not the not the least of which is um, how how does the level of hypocrisy in your life make you feel like a gatriarch? But you have a queer kid. And I’m curious, um, what advice can you share with the rest of us and what mistakes can we learn from in helping a kid reach their most authentic selves?
SPEAKER_00:
Okay, so I think like you’ve just asked me like eight questions. Sorry about that. It’s definitely my step, Alicia, get used to it.
David:
He will ask 20 questions and then answer them for you.
Gavin:
Okay, so how are you a hypocrite who feels uh very connected to the Gatriarch’s vibe?
SPEAKER_00:
How am I a hypocrite? I mean, I think every parent is a hypocrite. It has to be. Um probably the most hypocritical thing is that whole uh rules for me, but not for the thing. That happens a lot.
David:
That was our top three list for this episode. That is oh my, I cannot believe you said that. Our top three list is top three things, do as I say, not as I do. That is amazing that you came up with that. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:
And see, my kid is um my kid has been calling me out on my hypocrisy hypocrisy since they were like seven years old. So I’ve tried very hard. Right. I’ve tried so hard not to be, but it it still rears its ugly, ugly head every once in a while. And you just can’t help it. And I I don’t think I’ve ever said the things my parents said, you know, where it’s like, don’t cry, I’ll give you something to cry about, or you know, I’m your mom, just do what I say because I know best. But it has come very close. And maybe I have said it, I don’t even know. I’m sure my kid could tell me. I’m sure they’ve documented it uh every single time we can use it, you know. That it’ll be fodder.
Gavin:
It’ll be fodder for later.
David:
Well, so what I for sure said I told you uh because I said so a couple weeks ago, and I and I wanted to walk into traffic. I was like, I can’t, because I’ve been doing the same thing where I’m like, don’t say any of the stupid shit that you annoyed you as a child, right? Don’t do it. And I’ve been really good. And then the other day he was just pushing me and pushing me. And why do I have to? Because I fucking said so. And I was like, oh no, he broke me.
SPEAKER_00:
And it’s true. Um, and then as a queer kid, you know, that’s been like a twisty journey of insanity for me, anyways. Um like we’ve gone, we’ve tried, always tried to raise you know, my kid fairly gender neutral. And I suspected as a young child that they might be gay. Um, but whatever, it didn’t really matter. Um, it was just about, it was for me, it was more about not adhering to specific roles as a woman, you know, there’s disadvantages and just being uh yourself is is fantastic. And so when they told me at about age 11 that, oh, I think I might be gay, I was like, cool, that’s that’s fine. Um, you have gay uncles who, you know, are married and you know what it’s all about. I’m not I’m not that surprised. And then about a year later, they said, Mom, I think I’m trans and I had a panic attack. So that was not good. Um I also did all over.
Gavin:
What what made you have a panic attack about it?
SPEAKER_00:
So the fact that it wasn’t the fact that they they might be trans or were trans or are trans. Um, it was it was more about the society around us and just how much more stressful our lives became simply because of of who they are. So this when they told me that they think they’re trans, I did the wrong thing and I said, I don’t think so. And then they told me again in a note saying, Yeah, I’m really sure I’m trans, and I was like, fuck. Then my kid had to write a note to me. That’s brutal. That is not who I want to be.
SPEAKER_02:
Right.
SPEAKER_00:
Um, and so that was the only time I actually emergency called my therapist and said, I don’t know what to do, I don’t know what to say, what do I do? What do I do? And she talked to me off the ledge and said, you know, Alicia, like, okay, this is this is, you know, you take it one step at a time and the changes don’t happen overnight, and you you kind of just go with the flow and it’s gonna be okay. But you know, immediately I was wondering like about surgery and hormones and drugs and uh different clothing, all of those things. And so after my panic subsided, I called my my same friend, my mitten friend, who has a son who is who is trans and uh had fully transitioned. And so I asked her advice and um she helped quite a bit just with the whole calming down thing and some resources in in Winnipeg and where I could go. And probably my advice would be then, you know, for parents who who hear this from their kids is don’t panic like I did.
SPEAKER_02:
Right.
SPEAKER_00:
Because it and it was more again, it wasn’t that they were trans, you know, but it was more about the hate that I was worried they would face.
SPEAKER_02:
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:
Um and we’re in a fairly liberal city. Um, the school divisions here, you know, are fantastic. They’re flying the gay pride play uh flag right now in front of their high school. Um, and uh there are gay straight alliances, uh, most of their friends are on the queer spectrum somewhere. It’s it’s very welcoming. Um, and you know, changing pronouns and stuff is old hat to them. Like, you know, the kids are all they get it.
Gavin:
But it’s so true that we as parents, of course, we we panic in the same way that uh that our parent, that my parent freaked out, saying, I just don’t, it’s I don’t basically like be who you’re gonna be, etc. etc. Sort of, but um, I just don’t want life to be more difficult for you. And you as a parent can’t help but feel that way. You do frankly, you want your kids to be as conventional, normal, and boring as possible, ultimately, because you know life is easier when you’re just normal, boring, and conventional.
unknown:
Right.
David:
But I think there’s also for at least I I can only speak for myself, but like I I think there is also, if I’m being totally honest, a part that I fear if my kid is gonna ever be gay or trans, my kids, um, is is a part of like what people think about me because my kid, like if I’m being totally honest, the egocentric part of me of being always constantly defending being a gay parent, and then my kid becomes gay or trans. Yeah, see, see what I told you. So there is a part I think it’s 95%. I want to protect you, I want you to be happy, and I don’t want bad things to happen to you, which I think is normal. It’s the same thing when I came out and all this, but like there is an ego part of this where I’m I don’t want to have to also defend that now my kid is trans because I’m gay, which is obviously stupid, but I still appreciate you making that confession so the rest of us don’t have to look like assholes.
Gavin:
Thank you, David.
David:
I’m the jester, evidently, David.
SPEAKER_00:
So and and I think you know, for me, so I’m bisexual, um, but I married a guy. What’s the saying? I’m bi but married a guy. And so people assume I’m straight.
Gavin:
Oh all right.
SPEAKER_00:
It is a thing, it is a thing. I’m bi, but I married a guy. Um and so people assume I’m straight. And I get um, I don’t get that level of scrutiny, you know. Um I mean, and my my biness, like I don’t even think my parents know, I’ve just never talked to them about it. You know, I I listened to people. Hi Dad, here you are. Um, you know, but I you know, I introduced them to, you know, people that I was seriously dating and that happened to all be men, you know, just at the time the way the circumstances worked out. So, you know, surprise, you know, I’ve had relationships with women and they had no idea.
David:
But but I think that’s super common, like the like the the visibly, the publicly straight where you’re you’re visibly, you know, the quick if I just look at you at the grocery store, I go, that’s a straight woman, that’s her husband, and that’s what we there’s so as we all know, there are so many things that are just not that way when you look at them and you’re like, oh, that’s two guys. I you just don’t know exactly what’s going on. Right. But it is interesting that like you benefit from being visibly straight. Not that you’re hiding your bisexuality, no, but like in the the people who would, you know, no, no, none of us have ever experienced somebody pointing to a straight child and be like, see, it’s because your parents are straight. Exactly.
SPEAKER_00:
Exactly. How dare you? Exactly.
David:
How dare you? Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:
And as my child was, you know, okay, so I’ve been told they’re trans, and we’ve kind of settled on for now, you know, they feel more a gender. Um, but kind of all pronouns go, you’ll you’ll hear me slip up, you know, she, they, and kind of go back and forth. But um, so they’re still there, they’re still, you know, trying to figure things out. And okay, I am here for it. And uh, but yeah, I’ve never had to really suffer that kind of public, you know, judgment that way, uh, especially since my child is not trying to pass, you know. So they are just, you know, they’ve dressed, you know, probably more tomboyish, but they’re not trying to look like a boy.
David:
So But that’s what I mean when I talk about like uh the people thinking everyone’s trans now, versus like I would always argue to people like, remember when we just call girls who acted more masculine or liked to dress more acting, just tomboys, and we just never consider that anything. That is, I think, on the trans spectrum, that is a part of that, and we’re just we’re just neat. Yeah, the gender spectrum for sure.
Gavin:
And or when we would call or when we would call little boys um who would like to be a little more feminine fags, right? Is that what does that mean?
David:
Yeah, or we’d call them gabe and lunch, you know what I mean? Like whatever. Um, no, I have a qu I a real question because maybe I’m dumb. Non-binary and agender, same, different, nuanced. Like I I’ve only heard non-binary, agender, I’ve never heard. What is is that basically?
SPEAKER_00:
I I think it’s I think it’s essentially the same. I’m sure there’s a nuance in there that I do not understand because I’m still trying to understand this as well. Um, but yeah, agender is you know a term that’s used here.
David:
So maybe it’s just not I feel like the thing we’ve learned today is regardless of your your child’s birth sex or their gender or any sort of transitioning, they will not listen to you.
SPEAKER_00:
Uh, pretty much.
David:
That is, I think, the lesson we’re learning. No child will listen to their parents, whether they’re bisexual parents, straight parents, or your child is transgender, they won’t put their shoes on and they will not wake up in the morning.
SPEAKER_00:
Yes, that is absolutely true, and they will do hideous, hideous shit around your house.
Gavin:
But also along those that path, also, when you realized that you needed to not freak out, and I would imagine when you took your kids’ journey a little bit after they wrote to you, I’m trans, you opened your mind, opened your heart, and then everything became less binary or less um less strict, right? They came your your kid just came back and was like, Well, I don’t know, maybe we’ll just navigate this and not be one or the other, huh?
SPEAKER_00:
Right. And but it’s a scary thing to do that.
Gavin:
Sure.
SPEAKER_00:
You know, it’s and especially for someone like I consider myself a pretty open-minded, liberal, you know, very lefty kind of person. And so, but when you’re confronted with the reality, it’s so different. Nuanced. And then when you start the journey, you start the journey, and it’s like, there are no resources. Yeah, I don’t have answers to my questions. What do I do? It’s it’s really frustrating, and just you want to choke some politicians, you know. So it’s uh it’s been a journey.
David:
I think also it’s hard, it’s it’s it’s important for us to remember because I feel the same way, if not more, where I just I get I I I discover myself being get off my lawn, and then I’m embarrassed at it, and I’m like, I’m not as open-minded as I thought. Um, is that like that those those like preteen to teen years are supposed to be exploratory and dangerous and challenging the status quo. And I like and allowing them to do all of that that and trusting that on the other side of that they’ll they know who they are and they’ll settle on the thing that they love and they who who they are, but allowing them to maybe, like you said, go, I’m trans. Well, maybe I’m not trans, maybe I’m a gender. Giving them the space, I think is so important because I think about like if people to give me the space, I would be working at 7-Eleven right now because that was my dream as a little boy was to work at 7-Eleven because I thought if you worked at 7-Eleven, you could eat as much candy as you wanted. And they allowed me to have that dream, and I am no longer aspiring to work at 7-Eleven.
Gavin:
But the more we push back on their expression, the more they’re gonna push back on us. So, yeah, uh, let your kids work at 7-Eleven. And by the way, for respect, because you probably do get to eat all the candy you want. So that sounds awesome.
SPEAKER_00:
Get all the candy, all the candy, absolutely. And I think too, what’s interesting, especially around the whole trans conversation, though, is that you know, when we talked about it, and we talked to, you know, my husband and I talked a lot about like the influence of social media and how when we were kids, you you would try on different personalities, right? Like, you know, I my husband went through a goth phase, uh, I was an art kid phase, and then there was, you know, all these different things where you try on these different personalities. And so we wondered if that was what was happening here, and but you can’t discuss that in the trans community because then you’re immediately labeled trans phone. Yeah, and it becomes very challenging to kind of share those things, like um, okay, how do I navigate this? How do I know that they actually are who they say they are? And yes, I definitely trust them 100% that way, but you know, how much is the influence of what’s around them? And um, I think those are legitimate questions to ask. And I don’t necessarily think it’s a bad thing. I mean, I think the the fact that you know kids can even question that and question their sexuality, that’s fantastic. That’s great. We should all do that, but uh it’s scary.
Gavin:
It all goes hand in hand, and we can’t have cancel culture on either side, frankly. Just let the kids be the kids and let them figure it out, and let’s just all love each other.
David:
I mean, and I love that your husband went through the goth phase. Guys, do you remember the ska phase? Do you remember those like eight months, those eight months where like ska was it and then it just went away forever? And it was the Mighty Mighty Mossones and no one else.
Gavin:
Yeah, that was it. Did that go hand in hand with um swing dancing as well? Like the movie Swingers and Gap had a commercial that was all swing dancing. And I mean, I suppose that was maybe a little after ska, before. Hmm. Anyway, I’m much too young to actually conversation. I can see the bags under your eyes with that, even with that riverside filter. So um, so Alicia, you are a journalist. Are you doing any hard hitting fact-finding um uh journalism these days, or what is um filling your journalism cup?
SPEAKER_00:
So, right now, actually, I’m uh the managing editor of a website called Future of Good. Uh it’s kind of a different, like it’s an online magazine and it’s a little bit niche, but what they do and what we do is we talk a lot about the social services sector. So every nonprofit, every kind of arts group, anything that um and and the changes that kind of surround that industry. So if you’re a healthcare worker, if you um if you’re a theater producer, if you’re a singer, if you’re you know, all of those things in within Canada system, we talk about the changes and we talk about the solutions that are happening. It’s really easy to fall into the bad news trap. Um, and that we don’t shy away from that, but all of our stories, or the vast majority of our stories, have a solution. Nice. You know, this is how uh some people are solving it. And that’s a different type of journalism that’s slowly gaining some traction, uh, in more, I think, in the US than in Canada. So we’re pretty unique that way. Way. So I don’t do a lot of writing anymore, with the exception of our newsletter. But I certainly have my I’ve learned so much about the nonprofit sector in the past year that I’ve been here that it’s kind of blown my mind. And it it has changed my perceptions of what government should be doing and what they shouldn’t be doing.
Gavin:
So we do like to consider ourselves here at Gatriarchs, America’s finest news source. Often we will share bits of news that we find from um basically with it three weeks after three weeks after. Absolutely three weeks after the fact. Um but it but it is helpful to I really like the idea that you are solutions-based, and that would be a very productive way of be of reorienting our media for sure. We’re gonna do that here at America’s Finest News Source as well. We’re gonna be solutions-based from here on out.
SPEAKER_00:
No doubt, no doubt that you are going to follow this model.
Gavin:
How about those disaster stories from the road of parenting that um can help us all realize that it’s all one big shit show and we’re all in it together?
SPEAKER_00:
So probably my favorite story, and my husband reminded me of it last night, actually, was um we were living in BC. We spent about two years there when my daughter was very young.
Gavin:
For Americans, that does not mean before Christ, by the way.
SPEAKER_00:
No, no, no. British Columbia. Uh we’re living in the Okanagan Valley, it’s a beautiful, very expensive part of Canada. And um my child was, I think they were maybe 18 months-ish. My husband at the time was working retail. I was driving to go pick him up after a shift, and uh my daughter decided to vomit everywhere. And this is not, you know, the little burp up. Yeah, this is you know, strapped in your car seat and it goes everywhere. Yes, we’re for building. I’m like, well, fuck. So I texted my husband, and texting was still fairly new those days. Um, texted my husband and said, uh, buy me a shirt, the smallest shirt you have. And he’s like, What is happening? And I said, So, you know, our kid has vomited everywhere. So uh he told me to come in. So I’m walking this vomity, crying, sick kid into Mark’s book warehouse. Um, we put a shirt on them. Their smallest shirt is way too big, anyways. Um, and I do believe we just threw out the clothes that they were in.
SPEAKER_01:
Yep.
SPEAKER_00:
Came back, and then I’m like, it’s still all over the car seat. Well, fuck. So I’m trying to clean it with like the moist tallettes that you get that you throw in your trunk, you know, for when you’ve had wings somewhere. I’m like, oh, this could be coming in handy. I’ve got all baby wipes. We’re trying to clean it as best we can, but everything still just stinks. It reeks. We get home. My husband is putting the kid to bed, and I’m like, what the fuck am I gonna do about this stupid car seat? It reeks. And I was able to get the padding off, but there was no way to take the seatbelt straps off.
David:
Uh-huh. And I’m not sure. Oh, yeah, the nooks and crannies and those things, the English muffin of it all.
SPEAKER_00:
Exactly. So eventually I filled the bathtub, I put soap in there, and I chucked the whole goddamn seat into the bathtub. Oh, let it sit for a while. And then I took it outside to let it dry, and then I sprayed the straps with vodka because that takes odors out very well, and that worked great. And I told later that the um you really shouldn’t, you know, wash the straps, and that it’s very bad for them. But I’m like, I can’t live with vomit, and I’m too poor to buy another car seat.
David:
Right. And it would it would live in there forever, as we know. We’ve all tried to clean vomit out of those seats, and it is just it’s impossible.
Gavin:
And then you wondered why in the next car trip that you took, your kid was sucking on the straps and fell asleep for the next three and a half hours with that little vodka uh buzz.
SPEAKER_00:
Yeah, no, no, thank you for that gross.
Gavin:
I think I completely missed the point of this because when you mentioned that wipes in the car are for when you eat wings and stuff, and I thought that is not the first association I would have made for um wipes in the car, but I love it anyway.
SPEAKER_00:
Fair enough, fair enough. This just goes to show how much of a metaholic my husband is.
Gavin:
Um we love him already because here at Gatriarchs, we’re metaholics as well. So we love meat too. Yeah, we love me. Alicia Dacey, you are uh a complete delight. Thank you for seeking us out. We are thrilled to have you in the Gatriarchs family. And um thanks for sharing your advice and also mistakes made so that we will no doubt go out and make exactly the same fucking mistakes again. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:
I’m glad that I could not help. Yeah, thanks.
Gavin:
So we had a neighbor take us to a concert recently, and we were, let’s just say, the youngest people in the crowd. Uh, but it was so fantastic to be taken out of our comfort zone. Uh, somebody wanted to treat us, and that was great. And it was a jazz musician, a jazz trio. Not normally my cup of tea, but man, did I feel cultural and just like, you know, uh I wouldn’t have sought out that concert, but it was really awesome to see a concert on somebody else’s turf. And um, I’m reminded, God, I wish I were just richer with more time on my hands, and um no responsibilities in life. And I would love to go out and be cultural every single night of the week. So was it the Mati Madi Boss Tones? No, okay. No, but I would love to go see the Madi Madi Boss Tones, but I will not do it unless somebody else buys me a ticket and forces me to do it, because that’s unfortunately my reality. Because all I do is melt into the couch, watch uh too much Netflix, and eat too many Reese’s peanut butter cups as a total hypocrite. Total hypocrite. What about you?
David:
Um, so my son got pink eye, like all the kids do in daycare every five fucking seconds. So the rule is you have to be on antibiotics for 24 hours before you can go back. And so he had to stay home for a day where he wasn’t really sick. You know what I mean? He was just kind of home. And I’m still traumatized by like infancy, where the idea of a kid home means your day is ruined, you cannot work at all, you can’t do laundry, you can’t even fart by yourself because there will be something that needs you the whole time. Totally. And so he was home and I was like, fuck, canceled all my meetings, I was moving things around. And then I just was like, I’m gonna, I need to take him, I need to get groceries, I need to do something. So I just brought him along with me for the first half of the day. And it was so easy and great. And I forgot, because he’s almost five now, that he can just get in the car and go to the grocery store without any sort of fanfare, yeah, without any sort of preparation or thought or whatever. I had to come downstairs and do a quick meeting on the phone. I was like, just here, play with your iPad. He’s like, okay. And it just was like so easy and so enjoyable. We stopped at Starbucks and had a little drinkie poo. Like, it was just one of those moments, and I said this a couple weeks ago where like my son being older has just made it a little easier. Totally. I was like, this was actually kind of enjoyable. Yeah. Listen, I will still reserve the right to complain about all parts of parenting forever, but it was a great, great day of just hanging out with my kid while I did stuff that I thought I couldn’t do with him.
Gavin:
Uh, it’s a great realization, and when you hit that moment.
David:
And David, just you wait. Oh fuck. Let’s end the show before you start just you waiting me. That is our show, unfortunately. If you have any comments, suggestions, or general compliments, you can email us at GatetYarxpodcast at gmail.com.
Gavin:
Or you can DM us on Instagram. We are at Gatrix Podcast. On the internet, David is at DavidFm VaughnEverywhere, and Gavin is stuffing his face full of Reese’s peanut butter cups right now.
David:
Please leave David a glowing five star review wherever you get your podcasts.
Gavin:
Thanks, and we’ll do as I say, not as I do next time on another episode of Gatriarchs.