Full Transcript
We don’t get any better at this. We don’t get any better at this.
Gavin:
And we just both went for the top. So just as catriarchs.
David:
Happy Pride Gave in. Happy, happy pride, right there. Are you at ya? Are you going to uh Target to get your pride merchandise? Oh wait. Wait.
Gavin:
Target doesn’t have merchandise. Well, listen, I was in Target just two days ago, and they have a huge pride section just in the corner.
David:
They do. I was referring to this Target thing, if you guys haven’t heard. Like Target. So all the fucking idiots on TikTok. All seven of them who just happen to be really loud. That’s what’s so annoying is there’s seven people who’s mad at Target because they somebody took a bathing suit from the adult section and put it in the kids section and then made a video about it of them destroying it. Now, Target released a if you don’t know what we’re talking about, Target basically released a statement saying there’s been these threats at our stores because of our pride merchandise. So we’re gonna have to take some things off the shelf. But Target stands by the queer community, blah, blah, blah, which is of course lies. And listen, we all as gay people knew we knew when corporations started supporting pride that it was a business decision and not a uh one of full support. And we all know just making money. And we all kind of like, we all kind of quietly agreed to that in a way. So I want to put that out there that we all kind of quietly agreed to that. However, Target’s decision to say we still stand by it, however, we’re bowing to these idiots, is only going to further the fucking violence. It’s only going to stoke the flames because what they’re saying, what they’re saying to them is like you’re destroying the pro pride merchandise worked. Yeah. And continue to please do that. So Target, I’m really fucking annoyed with you because I love walking into your store purposely trying to buy bananas and leaving with$150 worth of shit it need. That is part of my white culture that you are taking away from me now because I don’t, I literally thought the other day, I was like, I need to go to Target to get something. And I was like, I don’t want to go there. And I haven’t eaten at Chick-fil-A in 20 fucking years. Yeah. So Target do better.
Gavin:
Yeah, and uh, I was there just a couple of days ago, actually. We uh are not on the boycotting stage, but my daughter was walking through the the Pride area and she was just mesmerized by it all. And I realized that there might have been some things missing. I went to customer service actually to say, hey, have you had to take any of your items away? And they looked at me somewhat blank-faced, which I don’t think was a ruse. I think that they were really like, I’m not actually sure if we have or not. But uh, let’s leave it at that. I’m gonna choose to believe the positivity. But they um my daughter was absolutely loving it. And uh, but she we we left there with, you know,$150 of stuff that I sort of intended to do and sort of did not intend to. And it was my 11-year-old who said to me, Wow, Target is the place where you come in expecting to buy one thing and you leave with$200 worth of it. She finally got it. And she said it got it on her own. She wasn’t even prompted to say that. Now, I’ve probably said it before, but I mean, I uh I agree with you. It is definitely too bad, I think, that there’s some rotten apples spoiling everything for everybody. And uh it would have been really interesting to see them stick up for themselves. Like, frankly, Disney has stood up to Gron DeSantis and actually said, We’re gonna take this fight and we’re not gonna just roll over for you. So it is disappointing.
David:
I uh Because the fact that they bow to that pressure is the most meaningful part of all of this. Because like me getting a overpriced, cheaply made Pride t-shirt up target is not the end all be all. But when a corporation like that visibly says, Yeah, you putting up this fight worked, it just means they’re gonna do it more and it that it’s okay. And so that is that is so frustrating. So I don’t want to live in the dark place because I want to talk about Pride because it’s Pride Month, it’s it’s June 7th today, and it is officially Pride Month, and Pride is happening. Um, we uh our local neighborhood uh has or our local town has a their own pride celebration. It’s the second year they’ve done it. It’s so fun, everyone has a fucking blast. They have like a lot of kids stuff, they have like a you know, bounce house, a lot of vendors. So shout out to Rutherford Pride. I think in a couple weeks we’re gonna have um the um the head of Rutherford Pride on our podcast. But um we’re very uh uh it’s it’s it’s a great time. And so that’s typically how we celebrate Pride. We also have an oversized flag. We are not flag people. Our house doesn’t like we don’t always have flags. However, we have an American flag for the you know July 4th holidays, and then we have a pride flag, but we ordered a five by three, like a five foot by three flag. Damn. It is so aggressive. Like we pull up at the end of our block, you can see it for miles, and it’s so there’s this weird like self-consciousness that I have when it’s out, and then part of me is like, this is the point of pride, David. That’s exactly right. This is literally the point of pride. You’re self conscious power.
Gavin:
You’re his self-consciousness is hilarious because you’re just thinking, I mean, it the fact that you’re because I’m so fucking visibly gay, and you have an aggressive pride flag is actually pretty hilarious. But listen, you drive across the middle of rural Ohio and you see those American flags that are a hundred feet by yeah. I mean, we also um are flag people and we have two on the back of our house, we have two different locations where we have flag holders. And you know, a couple of years ago, I am a patriot through and through. I love our country. I th I love um I feel uh fortunate to be an American. And there have been times during the Trump administration that I was I thought if I raise my flag, it feels a little too Trumpy to me to have a.
David:
Yeah, they they took over the flag.
Gavin:
And in part, yeah, they have rebranded the American flag as being um a symbol of, well, the things that I don’t stand for. But when I put it up next to my trans flag, uh trans gay pride flag, I’m I’m uh able to say, look, I am a proud motherfucking gay American. And uh it feels good to have them side by side.
David:
Yes, it’s important to rebrand it that way. We do the same thing where we don’t have two flag holders, but we try to make sure that our American flag comes because it’s Memorial Day, yeah, right before uh pride. And so we try to make sure that everyone, because we want to rebrand it, because it’s the same way. Whenever I see an American flag, my first thought is you are an enemy, you are an uh anti um uh everything, right? You’re a hateful, trumpy kind of thing. And I don’t want that to be. So part of part of I think our job is to kind of rebrand it by like, like you said, putting the trans flag next to the American flag, the gay flag. So anyway, that’s how I’m celebrating pride.
Gavin:
We will be, we will be uh so I live in a very, very rural part of Connecticut where we don’t have celebrations of frankly any kind, so let alone pride, uh, because there’s just uh well, one, it’s Connecticut, so people are antisocial and yeah, the Yankees just like to stick to themselves. But uh there is a small town near us that has their own uh third annual pride parade, and we have been invited by another church actually to march with their church. And I’m like, this is I mean, this is this is progress, y’all. This is progress that a church invited us, and we aren’t even part of their church. Um, I mean, they were totally like, hey, we want some gays to march with us. I’m like, that’s all right, I don’t mind being the token. And uh my kids are actually excited to be in a parade, so it’ll I I’m I’m I’m excited about that. Yeah. So recently, uh a theater near us is Goodspeed Opera House, which is a really well very well-respected theater where uh actors in New York really, I mean, hey, if you’re not on if you’re not already gamefully employed, Goodspeeds is a really good place to work and they put it. And a lot of Broadway shows come out of there. A lot of Broadway shows have come out of there, and it’s uh just a really fun place to work. And very high production quality. Recently, I took my 11-year-old to see Gypsy. And Gypsy is an uh, for those who don’t know, an uh truly an old-fashioned classic musical, although from like the 60s to not from the 30s, but like it’s a it’s old-fashioned, and at the same time, it has a lot of psychological games that are being played as this mother is essentially emotionally abusing her children by pushing them onto the stage to be a child. She’s like a stage mom, yeah. She’s a stage mom. And so there I am. We were sitting in a part of the theater that wasn’t uh we didn’t have good sight lines for the first act. So the second act, uh, my daughter wanted to move, so we moved closer to the stage. And so we have moved to the front of from to the front of the audience where people are the way it’s set up, people are really able to see us. I mean, if I stood up and waved my arms, everybody in the entire theater would see us. And we move there for the second act, which is the the second act is about how a character become goes from basically being a little kid tap dancer to an adult stripper. And there I am sitting there with my daughter, thinking, everybody in the audience is looking at me, thinking, why does this man with on a school night have his little girl at a show that is about a stripper? But the whole time.
David:
At least a drag queen’s not reading her a book. That’s all I’m saying.
Gavin:
Thank God. It’s there are no drag queens. But at the same time, I’m like, this is way more G-rated than anything she probably sees on TikTok on a daily basis. So I was ready for it, but it did, I did feel exposed. It but it uh, you know, and at the at the end of the first act, she said, This is the most boring thing I’ve ever done in my entire life. But I swear to you, she was riveted the entire time, too. And uh, you know, by the end of the show, she was like, I need to go to bed, but that was really good. And I thought, okay, good. I’m glad you got some musical theater history there.
David:
Gays just indoctrinating their kids with musical theater. Oh my god.
Gavin:
What and strippers, they said jam a few times.
David:
Oh my god. See, this is you’re you’re the reason why gays shouldn’t have kids. Um, speaking of, uh, I I wanted to just quickly talk about something we’ve casually mentioned a few times, and I want to know if we can solve this problem. Oh, the idea of when parents of older kids say to parents of younger kids, you’ll miss this, whatever that is. So, like I have a one-year-old and a three-year-old, you’ll miss the baby years, you’ll miss the toddler years, you’ll miss the preschool years, you’ll miss, you know, whatever the thing is that you’re complaining about personally, the person above you, you in my case, other people, you’ll miss this. Don’t worry, because because what’s coming, not not just what’s coming down the road is worse, right? Like the oh, the teenage years, but literally, I know, I know it’s hard to have a baby, but you’ll miss those times, right? So I’m wondering, is there a way? How do we as parents fix that? How do we as parents get enough of this in the time to where we won’t feel like we missed that? Does that make sense? Other than what we all want to do, right? Is bottle it, right? We all want to just do the whole like pretend I’m 80 and this I get to come back and listen to this baby crying. Oh, I would so enjoy it. So we want to just bottle that up, but we can’t. So is there a way that we can just enjoy this enough to where we won’t miss this?
Gavin:
I mean, that’s a$64 million question, right? That we’re all wishing away the time because oh, this weekend’s gonna be so much tough, so so much running around or whatever, and I just gotta get through the weekend, or I just gotta get through the holidays. I think about that a lot, and think, why am I wishing away my time? Or I just wish my kid could be a little older so it would be easier. And um, I mean, mindfulness as as as very 2023, roll your eyes uh Instagrammy zen meme about it as it is. Mindfulness is a literally a muscle that we have to exercise and stop and think to ourselves, be in the moment. I mean, I wish I had any semblance of what it means to actually be in the moment.
David:
I I feel like it regret is my my biggest fear when I think about being an old person. Like I don’t want to have regret, like regret or missed out on things. And I think that’s why I think about this a lot is that I don’t want to feel like I missed my chance. But I’m also wondering, will I feel that no matter what? No matter how much time I just enjoy and wrap myself up in the cuddles or the whatever the thing is I’m gonna miss. Is there no amount you can absorb to where you feel satisfied at an older age? I got enough cuddles at three. I got enough, you know what I mean? So I wonder if that’s the solution. I I literally propose this as a question or outline because I don’t know the answer to this, but it’s something we talk about all the time. I’m sure you hear all the time like you’re, you know, you’ll complain about, oh, my preteen this, and somebody says to you, you’re gonna miss this when they move or whatever. And so you’re like, okay, will I ever be able to enjoy enough of this without getting to bottle it up, which we can’t do, other than photos and videos that we take.
Gavin:
I it’s I don’t you’re we’re all struggling with that all the time in multiple aspects of life, especially raising kids, but it’s about being mindful. I don’t know. I know it’s so Pinteresty, I know, and it’s about like oh it it makes me gag too, but there is a lot to be said for actively stopping and being in the moment. And I don’t know.
David:
Yeah, and I will say for me, my my trick, other than the the trick that’s going viral right now, which is pretend you’re 80, is the thing I’ve noticed is that when some when a moment hits me as memorable and unique, and god, this really just like so. This morning, my my son, he we try to limit his sugar and it never fucking works. Oh yeah, you and your he requested like these like strawberry banana Cheerios in the shape of hearts that he saw that I just know are just sugar bumps, and I just said, fuck it, who cares? And so I poured him a bowl of it, and he was so excited, he was screaming and grabbing the hearts out of the the bowl and like showing them to me. And I just had this moment of like, oh my god, this is a moment I want to remember forever. And so I took out my phone and I and I have this special folder of like these moments that for whatever reason they hit me as like, I want to remember this. I want to always this particular moment of this just like joy shining out of him. So that is my personal way of doing it, is just like these special, weird, insignificant moments that just mean a lot to me. But other than that, I just think I’m gonna feel like I never got enough time, and that’s maybe part of it.
Gavin:
That’s parenting.
David:
Wait, when you pull your phone out, you’re taking a picture of the moment and it’s a special you’re writing it down and then and then I I uh we, you know, you have your favorites folder, I put it in there to where, like, you know, I have like you, a billion photos and videos of my kids, which I’ll never look at again. But then I want to make sure that I have a curated list of things that just for me are special, and they’re not special in that like kindergarten graduation, they’re special in like that moment he got so excited about a Cheeria that he wanted to show me, you know.
Gavin:
You know, this is gonna nauseate you as I go down that sentimental track as well. But last summer, uh my kid uh my son had just gotten a fishing pole, and we happened to be on the coast, and we went out one night, uh, we were on a weekend vacation, and we went out fishing on the beach, briefly, and I was like, oh my god, my phone’s about to die, and and I was left alone because for random reasons we were gonna be out there for a couple of hours. And I thought to myself, oh my god, I’m not a fisherman. I’m gonna be out here with my kid on the beach alone without my phone while he’s fucking fishing, and it forced me for two or three hours to be out there with him in the moment, and yeah, it was kind of boring. But and what my takeaway from it though is that we conversed more. Of course, I was a better, more present dad because I didn’t have my phone. And as much as I wanted to take pictures from it, and I don’t remember a lot of the visuals, even though it was just last year, but my memory is a sieve, of course. Well, at your age, it’s pretty understandable. But I remember the that the whole evening we were just present together. It was the most present I’ve felt in a really long time. Why? Because I did not have my phone. So when you talk about taking out your, hey, no judgment. I take pictures of like, I just want to remember this. But an awful lot of the time, I just do a like, I physically make myself be like, I just want to remember this. And I don’t take out my camera, I just pretend I’m taking a picture. And I don’t know. I don’t remember I can’t remember a single one of those moments that have actually done that right now.
David:
For those of you at home, he just did the symbol of like, you know, when you pull the old timey where you pull the blanket over your head and then you hold the thing and then it like explodes. Oh, fuck off. Oh, I know, I’m just being a dick. Um well, this has been this episode so far has been way too sentimental and stupid. Um, so let’s move on to our top three lists. Let’s do that! So this week was my list. Um, I wanted to choose the top three non-toy toys because I think every parent knows that toy toys are not as popular as non-toy toys. You know it. So obviously, my kids are much younger than yours, so mine will look maybe a little different, but here are my top three non-toy toys. And number three, real remotes. Not fake ones, because we we have an old DVD player. We’re like, oh, we’re just gonna give them this DVD player remote that doesn’t go to anything. They know. They know it’s not the real one. So they love real remotes. Always. Yeah. Number two, a water bottle with rice in it.
Gavin:
Oh, wait, what?
David:
It we literally saw we saw it somewhere. You fill a water bottle halfway up with rice and then you just glue the top on. So it’s just a shaker. It’s just a shaker, but obviously, if you bought a shaker, kids are not fucking interested. But this water bottle that still exists, it’s like it’s deteriorating. But like it is for sure, my kids, second favorite uh uh non-toy toy. And then number one, and I bet there’s some crossover here, Tupperware. Oh Tupperware. No, listen, there could be crossover. Tupperware, for those of you who aren’t parents yet, just have a Tupperware drawer that’s at kids’ level that’s unlocked, and that will give you hours of free time. Yeah. What about you?
Gavin:
I completely agree with you, and I want to emphasize some of the best parenting advice I ever got from somebody was somebody who said, make an entire cabinet just of Tupperware, and then that’s your kid’s cabinet, uh, you know, on the ground level that they’re able to play with. And it was genius uh for, you know, like a one-year-old, one to two, maybe up to three. They just want to be able to stack the stuff and put some spices in there as well. Because if you don’t mind them spilling it sometimes for them to have the uh the uh sensorial experience of smelling the stuff. Well, Tupperware was on my list, but it’s fine. I have a backup. No, okay. No, Gavin, we can have crossover, that’s the fun part of this list. If we have crossover, no, no, no, no, no. Well, no, but I have to I have to stand out. So uh Tupperware will be my number four, but I absolutely agree with you. Um stacking and putting the lids together, it’s very uh educational. So number three for me was when my kids were younger, I admit. Now they just their only toys are soccer balls and phones, so whatever. But number three for me was the toilet and the toilet plunger and the toilet scraper, which is disgusting. But we actually had a fake setup next to the toilet because I have so many pictures of my younger kid in particular splashing around in the toilet. I know it’s disgusting, but boy, was he happy doing it. And we gave him his own plunger and scrubber on the side that was not actually dirty, although let’s face it, the toilet was probably dirty. But listen, uh he’s never sick now, so anyway, number three, the entire toilet setup. Number two, boxes living in an Amazon world, we have an awful lot of boxes coming to us, and it really it’s the old adage to completely was absolutely true. Being able to hold on to those cardboard boxes and having the kids make their own trains, their own cars, their own whatever setups was actually pretty great. So number one, a wallet. We got my kid a wallet because he wanted, I suppose, to be like us, you know. Well, he kept stealing our wallets, taking all the shit out all over the place and leaving it all over the floor. He never took Miamix, but uh now he would. So having a wallet with their own little things to put inside uh was a very big toy for them. So, what is next week’s list, Gavin? So next week, I want to hear about the movies or even TV shows that you watched when you were younger that made you feel a little bit gay.
David:
Ooh, this is a good one because I feel a little bit gay a lot of the time. Um, for those of you out there, please, um, who are listening and you have ideas for our top three lists, please DM us. Please tweet at us. Please email us. Do all the things. We want to hear your ideas for top three lists.
Gavin:
Danny Vinn, who is with us on the line right now, is a dear friend of mine with whom I got to indulge a lot of my rock star fantasies because uh she’s a badass on a guitar and a piano and all over the place in uh the band world. We played an apparent band together at our kids’ school, and she played multiple instruments, and I tried to struggle realizing that you really cannot sing the Violet Femmes or Ramones with a Broadway ping. You just need to scream. And so I figured it out, and it was really fun to scream.
SPEAKER_02:
Gave me everyone everyone squealed when you came on stage, though. I mean, like oh, please, please, please tell me what you’re doing. You were you were undoubtedly the dilf of PS3.
Gavin:
I do want everybody to know what a badass you are, not just on the guitar and the piano. Um, Danny is also the executive creative director of Made Music Studio, where they compose music and sound for brands, what you like to call sonic branding, which sounds very super 2023.
SPEAKER_04:
Very buzzing.
Gavin:
One of the many awesome aspects of Danny is that uh she is a trans feminine and queer lover of all humanity. She has two children, one who is non-binary and one cis girl. She transitioned in 2018, and she has brought her two children along on this adventure of visibility and representation and redefinition. And thank you for joining us, Danny. Yeah.
David:
That was a long intro, huh, Danny? Sorry about that. Felt good. Felt good.
Gavin:
Tell us how your kids were assholes today.
SPEAKER_02:
Well, you know, the the um last night my oldest one, Faux, like they they were like, it’s okay if I set my alarm to midnight. I was like, what the what the fuck’s going on? And they’re like, well, you know, so Taylor Swift said, Meet me at midnight. That means she’s dropping new music. I’m like, Oh, Taylor. Oh my god. I’m like, you should really get a good night’s sleep because like it’ll be there in the morning. But they set their I guess they woke up at midnight, they couldn’t figure out what was going on, they went back to sleep, and then this morning they came in and gave me some some kind of nuanced review of the Ice Spice track or something like that.
Gavin:
So there is so Taylor Swift is ruining families and sleep across the world. Ruining time.
SPEAKER_02:
Ruining families, yeah.
Gavin:
Yes, ruining families, taking up.
David:
But doesn’t she isn’t that like part of her MO? It’s like she’s uh everything means something else. Like that’s her whole vibe.
SPEAKER_02:
It’s like she’s like It’s so fucked up. I mean I I just So then uh Foe wanted to play for me then something else. Uh I don’t know if it wasn’t something released at midnight, like a duet with her and Lana Del Rey, and like so yeah, this morning I had to like feign interest. Yeah, I mean we we took Fo last year to go see Lil Nas X. And you know, if you ask me which fandom would accept my family or just get it and see it, you know, I’ll pick Lil Nas X’s fandom any day. Oh, yeah. Right? Yeah right whereas I don’t I don’t know if the Swifties would actually accept Foe as well.
David:
No, they’re the Midwestern white women of of the music world. They I I feel like they would be secretly against you while publicly for you kind of a deal.
SPEAKER_02:
Exactly.
David:
But I feel like Lil’ Nas X, but uh as far as an artist goes, he’s unapologetic in a way, which I think is what you’re attracted to. Where I think maybe Swifties aren’t that same way. Hey, at least your kids weren’t setting an alarm for midnight for some sort of fucking sacrifice. Because that’s what that’s the first thought I had in my head is like, are they gonna like burn a crow or something? Because like, why else would you set an alarm for midnight?
Gavin:
Meanwhile, Danny’s like, I wish my kids would actually burn a crow in the middle of the night.
SPEAKER_02:
Well, I mean, foe, foe is the kid though that will go put like water a glass of water out if there’s a full moon by the window so it becomes moon water. So they will, you know, oh wow, that’s optimistic. Dabble in mysticism, but oh nice.
Gavin:
I think that’s great. So speaking of the family and your family unit and everything, I love um I mean, so you have transitioned, so to speak, from a heteronormative family into a big, bright, queer family. Um you and your partner Omega co-parent your kids, and I’m curious if you could describe for us this wonderfully broad um family that you uh have fostered. Besides the moon water. We got the part. I bet there’s a lot of moonwater involved, and I think it’s fantastic of work for it.
SPEAKER_02:
Um well we make a we make it a point to try and add you know people and community to our family. I know that sounds, you know, it could sound kind of like I’m glossing over all the difficulties of that, but we we make sure that like our kids are surrounded by people that see us. And and because we’re friends with a lot of trans people, a lot of non-binary people, a lot of queer people, it’s we we get a chance to also kind of play with that language about who’s called an uncle, who’s called an aunt. Yeah. We get to play with that, I feel like, in a much more uh a much more, I don’t know, this is very fun, you know. The uncle Uncle LK comes over to to visit. And Uncle LK is a uh non-binary masculine presenting person, and you know, it’s like we get to I feel like we’ve got permission to really lean into that in that sense of family, because um you know that there’s that very common Brooklyn experience with with families where it’s you’re kind of become isolated. You probably don’t live near grandma and grandpa or uncles and aunts necessarily, and so you become like, you know, I see it now more this idea where everything’s everyone’s trying to pretend that they can do it in the nuclear family. And that if you can’t do it, you know, you subsidize it with after school programs and nannies and there’s nothing wrong with that, but um just out of practice from relying and and and drawing so heavily on others for support, like we’ve been able to build something that feels you know, unique.
Gavin:
Yeah, your own tribe.
SPEAKER_02:
Yeah.
Gavin:
And the kids have, I would imagine, have enjoyed it, like being part of a kind of an expansive family.
SPEAKER_02:
Yeah, they they enjoy they enjoy that. It’s you know, it’s become the the norm for them. Sometimes there is a contrast, I think, that they feel, right? In terms of like that it it can feel a little different in our household sometimes.
SPEAKER_04:
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:
Right? But um how old are your kids? They are so the oldest one is gonna turn 13 in a few weeks, and the youngest one is 10.
David:
So I mean, they’re also at that prime age of like, I want to be doing what my friends are doing. I wanna, I wanna kind of fit in where that I feel like that is the time where that pressure starts to seep in. And you can of course go against it or not, but I remember at that age feeling very like, I want to make sure that whatever I say I’m doing or what class I’m taking or what my family looks like doesn’t get me noticed by anybody because I’m different. Because that was my biggest fear in middle school was like I don’t want anybody to know that I was different because then I become a target.
SPEAKER_02:
You know, the it with as often when you have two kids, you know, they they can they can both grow in different such different ways or express that in different ways. Um foe, the older one, they are a lot quicker, just in general, they’re quicker to want to kind of show us off sometimes. That’s nice. Which can be nice, you know. It can also be like, you know, it can also feel like okay, don’t don’t appro don’t don’t appropriate us, but but it’s real it is it can be real it can be very beautiful because foe does have a lot of other friends that are queer and they um I think focus to be a leader in that space because it’s not like they’re just reading the books and watching the shows or whatever, they’re actually living it. Living the experience. So like I I think Gavin, you you knew this because I emailed you. I had uh top surgery, I had breast augmentation a f uh a month ago. Oh my gosh. And um so so many things to say about that in terms of the amazing experience and the community that I got support from. Sure. But even at that, like um Foe had told a few of their friends, and there was some kind of text where Foe was out with their friends and and and they were like, you know, oh they all they all said congratulations and are really happy for you because they were telling their friends that and their friends were like sent like a picture and they’re all like this. And I was just like, wow. Like that’s you know, yeah.
David:
I feel like the kids are getting it. The kids are starting to really fix some shit we didn’t we didn’t fix ourselves. They’re they’re really getting it.
SPEAKER_02:
I got strong support from the 12-year-olds, right? Yeah, like you know, they are they’re all getting boba tea or something and they were all um happy to hear that. Amazing. Right? That’s so cool.
SPEAKER_04:
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:
On the other hand, the the on the other hand, the 10-year-old, she’s more in the like I’m starting to get to like I’m terrified to be seen with kind of any adult probably, but this this morning when I dropped her off at school, you know, she’s on the back of this big electric bike that I’ve got. And I normally it’s like she just gets off and just like doesn’t say anything, grabs her backpack and runs. You know, but this time I go, I go, I go, oh, perfect, and I pull next to this big SUV, like a you know, giant black SUV. I kind of pull behind it. I’m like, now you can give me a hug, C C and she she literally gave me a hug for the first time in fourth grade on drop-off because the view could see.
Gavin:
And we get it, we get it. My kids, I mean, I’m a definitely a homonormative family, I would say, unit, uh, just by I don’t know, happenstance. But um, I’ll constantly my kid, and it has not I know it has nothing to do with our um frankly gender or sexuality, but she’s totally like, can we not be the weird family?
David:
I’m like, oh Jesus, we are you’re like, girl, it’s that that’s Chapest Sales. We are the weird family, Godspeed, my lady. Um, speaking of weird, um, Danny, you’re a musician, which I feel like we all speak the same language. We’re all musicians here. Um, however, I was reading, I was, I was doing a little Googling of you. Okay. And my favorite thing in the world that I well no, one of two favorite things that I would bring up is this is Danny claims her spirit instrument would be a primitive gourd banjo. Well, and I wrote, I wrote the I wrote that, I know, and I see it above your shoulder, and I’m obsessed with that because I was like, I really wrote the note in my in our outline notes. Danny claims her spirit uh instrument would be a primitive gourd banjo. Explain. So tell me why your spirit instrument is the primitive gourd banjo.
SPEAKER_02:
I studied guitar for you know many years. I got a I’ve got a bachelor’s and a master’s degree in it. And you know, I I put so much of my identity into being a guitar player, right? Like this is kind of pre-transition. So like it was like if I when I if I can’t truly express myself, what if I become this virtuoso by by sheer will? You know, what if I practice five hours a day? You know, what if I just dedicate everything to it? And so, you know, I became pretty proficient, pretty pretty good. But um, you know, sort of like there, I I did it. I I learned it. I know I know all the notes, right? Like I and um then I got really kind of burnt out of that a little bit, right? Like it didn’t find joy in it on on a even like a physical level. Like it’s like I it’s like I just kind of m mastered it in this like kind of odd way. So I I um somehow got down in some rabbit hole of like learning about the history of the banjo, being like this instrument that came over from Africa with the enslaved peoples, and I um yeah, I just started playing banjo then because not so much for the like technical challenge, but just because it’s like going from something where I had mastered from a technical point of view, I’d study classical music, I’d study jazz music, you know, academically, to going to something that was like so folk and so basic. And then I had some, you know, found some guy in like South Carolina that makes these gourd banjos, so that’s a goat skin on there, and it’s there’s no frets. And yeah, it just kind of turned me on my head about like what you know, what music is, where it comes from, what instruments are.
David:
But also the good the difference between the guitar, I mean, listen, I there’s a lot of differences between the guitar and the banjo, but there’s something about the voice, the voice of a banjo that to me has such depth that maybe is part of your I mean there’s obviously the kind of intellectual attraction to it, but like there’s just the there’s just a depth to the sound of a banjo. And I don’t know the sound of a gourd banjo, but I know the sound of a a traditional banjo, and I to me, like whenever I hear that, it does evoke something different than a than a guitar can evoke.
SPEAKER_02:
Yeah, one of the things that kind of got me like really like, oh, I never thought about this is that those old styles of banjo playing, there’s a note that’s called a drone, and it just goes, right? And if I say if I talk about drone music, I often think about things that are kind of trance-like, or you can think about like some kind of EDM music where there’s it’s like, oh, well shit, that’s going on in that bluegrass music too, is this little drone, this constant note. And I was like, God, that’s like a you know, like almost otherworldly. That’s like coming from another culture, this concept of playing against a single repeated note. And the idea that on the Gord band show, you can’t really play chords, right? So what you’re what you’re left with are like patterns and rhythm and melody. And I was like, fuck. You know, I never thought about it that way. So I went I you know, with me in music, I like to go down at this stage, I like to go down these kind of rabbit holes where I’m really curious about where things came from, why things sound a certain way, and that’s you know, that fills me up.
Gavin:
Uh speaking of like going down rabbit holes and going in exploring and whatnot, I’m curious about um some of your stories about traveling uh with the family and getting getting out and probably getting into like ukulele land or or uh Banjo land or um and and whatnot. How uh what what’s it like to travel uh as a family right now?
David:
Banjo land, South Carolina’s least favorite tourist attraction, honestly.
SPEAKER_02:
We have to be careful. I’m sure I’m sure you know you you guys ha have a similar experience, but you you do have to be careful about where you go when your family doesn’t look the same. Like everything’s everything’s great in Brooklyn until you so you’re not in Brooklyn, yeah. And then you realize, okay, so I’m I’m being looked at, I’m being clocked, right? And um so we do as a family have to be mindful of that. Um so I was remember that rem reminds me of like two two years ago, my partner and I brought the kids down to the Shenandoah Valley, so West Virginia, because it’s just we’d been there before separately when we’re when we were younger, and if you’ve never been, it’s just like it’s gorgeous. It’s just simply gorgeous. And we’re like, let’s try that. It’s like a six-hour drive. We’ll get a cabin in the woods with a hot tub and go horseback riding and see the smoky mountains. And but yeah, like you get as soon as you get into the Shenandoah Valley, you’re driving along, and there’s like Trump flags, and then there’s the rebel flag, and then you’re like, you know, your shoulders you realize you’re holding your shoulders a little tighter, and you go into the supermarket and your partner holds your hand and you’re like, no, no.
David:
You know, don’t don’t not here, you know, and you and then you hate yourself for acting that way, and then you’re like, but I’m just protecting myself, and you have you start having that battle in your head.
SPEAKER_02:
Right, right. And you go into the bathroom with the kids, and I’m you know, I’m I’m transfeminine, but my my voice still reads, can read fairly male in settings, and so I’m just like in the bathroom, I’m like, I don’t talk in the bathroom.
Gavin:
Oh wow.
SPEAKER_02:
Woo! You know, like that’s a you know, so you go in the bathroom with your kids, what are you normally doing? You’re like being like, wash your hands, do that, you know, like they’re asking for help in the stall, and instead I’m just like, Yeah, I ain’t talking in this bathroom, kids.
SPEAKER_04:
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:
That’s something that can happen sometimes anywhere. Um, but on that trip we went horseback riding and we found this this ranch that when we we drove to it, and it’s in this valley, and it’s just just breathtakingly beautiful. And as we’re driving up, we kind of you start feeling the speaking of banjo, you start kind of feeling the backwoods nature of it. And I mean it’s gorgeous. And there’s but there’s so you you it’s a family-run farm, and the whole family’s out kind of in the in the barn area where all the horses are, and the the the old man who runs the place, the old patriarch, he’s sitting on this plastic lawn chair, and I’m just like, oh shit, here’s Plastic Lawn Chair Jerry, yeah, not playing a banjo. These two dusty dogs laying at his feet that you know you know, he whistles at and they come and circle around. And he’s just he’s just looking at us, being like, you know, what the hell just rolled into this thing. Yeah. But you know, money’s money, so he’s like, you know, the CC at this time must have been eight, and we look over over in the yard is this other eight-year-old girl who must have been his granddaughter, and she’s, you know, she’s like an eight-year-old horse trainer, right? So she’s got this little corral with a smaller horse that she’s got sitting there for Cece. So this old guy’s like kind of points and yanks his head, be like, you know, y’all send her over there to her. And Cece goes, and um, you know, this eight-year-old girl puts Cece on a horse. And um and we’re like, okay, well that’s you know, that’s cool. That’s how they do it down there, you know. Eight-year-olds working at the farm teaching Cece to ride a horse. And so meanwhile, he’s got then the the the older guy starts working with us, and he he can’t figure out who to be misogynistic to. Like he’s like totally lost.
David:
Who can I hate first?
SPEAKER_02:
This is driving me crazy. Right, right. He’s like, he’s like, usually there’s a uh a him and a her, and I make fun of the way she talks, and the you know, he he his his.
Gavin:
Did he literally say that?
SPEAKER_02:
No, but it’s you could tell his whole routine’s off because like he’s kind of he has a shtick where he probably is like slightly you know sexist and racist, but also seen as kind and you know, he got this so he’s so thrown off. But yeah, we we all eventually get on horses and we later hear from Cece, or Cece, how was that with that with that other girl over there? Like, because we look over and there’s Cece in her own little corral with this eight-year-old girl. And it’s adorable because like they’re both eight, and you know, Cece’s a city kid, and this other eight-year-old’s this farm girl, and Cece’s like, well, she asked who I was here with, and I said, I’m I’m here with I’m here with my trans parents and her partner, Omega, who’s non-binary.
David:
I’m just like, I’m like, that is a sentence that you do a lot of things at that poor little girl. That poor girl just wanted to hear my parents, and you just threw a lot at her.
SPEAKER_02:
I know, like that’s like a sentence that those words had never been put in that order before, no doubt. For this kid, I was like, we’re like, oh, you know, next time you can say you’re with your two moms, but then you even have to pause at that, be like, well, I don’t know, is that would that have been the right thing to say?
Gavin:
Your two moms, like it is so nuanced, and you’re uh I mean, we’re we live in a world where I think the three of us and lots of people want to live somewhat labelessly, but it’s so tough because we need to be able to put on labels so that other people can just kind of understand and feel like we’re all playing the same game.
David:
It’s um I also think that it’s an important thing for we have a lot of straight listeners, and I think something that I think they can understand is like, yeah, when you go to different places, sometimes you change the way you act or talk or or or say things. And I but I what one thing I don’t think they can quite or they don’t often think about is that, and then we feel such fucking guilt about that. And such there’s this this idea of like we want to protect ourselves and make sure we have an enjoyable time, we protect our kids, but also we want to stand up for what’s right. And that is a constant fucking, at least for me, a constant negotiation I’m having in my head everywhere. We live in an amazing town and everyone knows that we’re gay and we’re a two-dad family. And I still find myself in grocery stores and times, if my husband tries to hold my hands or somebody says, you know, whatever, that I have that decision point in my head. Do I say it? Do I not? Is this the time I say something? Do I just kind of blend in to get to this conversation to make other people feel comfortable? And there’s there’s just an exhaustion to that. And I I I and some of it I blame myself for just fucking stand up all the time. And then some of it I’m like, no, this is this is us getting through the Ozarks or South Carolina or whatever, or even Brooklyn.
Gavin:
Yeah. No. Sleep till Brooklyn. Do you feel like um are you a pioneer in Brooklyn as well? Or do you feel like you have um other folks that you can kind of nod at and be like, yep, we’re on the same journey together?
SPEAKER_02:
That’s a good question. I be I I I I think about that a lot in terms of, you know, in Brooklyn, even yeah, even in Brooklyn, I feel like we don’t have a lot of other people that look like us in the parenting community. I’ll also say that it’s you know, you have to try, like it’s not just gonna come to you, but I you know, d dropping the kids off at school or or just through the process of knowing other parents, it’s like I’m sure it’s like you said a two two dad households, like it’s I feel like it’s more common you’re gonna find lesbian households, you know, in this in the school system a little more commonly. It’s great. Like, I mean, power to them and and I’m I’m supportive of them, and I’m sure they I’m sure those households have a lot of challenges I don’t perceive either. Um, but yeah, I definitely have never met, at least in Brooklyn, another trans feminine parent.
David:
Luckily, according to your kids, you’re just as embarrassing as all the other parents. Exactly. So really, you’re you’re on the same level as that. Um, something that I again, I was stalking you online before the interview, and I was reading your um Ad Age article where you kind of went through your day, um, which was which was great and really enjoyable. But my my favorite part, you were talking about how you were cooking, you’re doing like trade cooking with your neighbors, and like you were gonna cook the pork and they were gonna cook the rice and beans, you’re gonna trade whatever. And and I’m gonna read out loud what you were talking about. Um, your landlady when uh who has misgendered you, and they you guys have lived next to each other for a long time, and you wrote, they still call me Dan and often refer to me with he, him pronouns, but Terry regularly comments on how pretty I look, so I forgive her.
unknown:
Yeah.
David:
I love that. I was like, listen, guys, compliments can get you anywhere. Totally. That’s all you need. Tell people how pretty they are, and you can get anything you want.
SPEAKER_02:
I mean there’s su there’s such I’m so glad I I wrote that because I I don’t live there anymore, and it is like it is like the idea of like being seen by somebody. Oh yeah. It’s a big deal, and it’s kind of a bigger deal sometimes than like that person getting the the language right, even though I expect people to get language right, but you have to first be seen, right? Like so my biggest crit criticism of the kind of normative liberal parents in my area in Brooklyn is that they’re like they’re supportive in the in how they talk and the stickers they put on their windows and the and and they might even have the right language and they’re very careful about that. But I don’t know if they’re if they see me the way that you know I always want to be seen. And so like when Terry, my landlord, is like, you look pretty today, and I’m like, Oh, thanks, Terry. You know, she’s got her walker and she’s in her 80s, and you know, trying to explain to her what it is to be trans was just like really challenging, but it meant a lot, you know.
David:
Yeah and I think what you’re also touching on is like it it is nice those small moments that we get in life, and they’re small, where a human sees another human, really just pierces through all the things that we shroud ourselves in, what b pro and con. And just it’s just sound like Terry just saw the the human for a second.
SPEAKER_02:
Yeah, well it’s like she’s you know, like right, Terry saw the human, and and like the thing that you know, I think she’s a Republican, right? She’s like an she’s like a Catholic who’s like once I asked who she was voting for president, I think Hillary was running. She I was like, You’re not gonna vote for Hillary. She’s like, a woman president? Never. Why would I no, they can’t be president.
David:
No, it’s not. Can they even vote? You’re like, girl, let me let me catch you up in the last 60 years.
SPEAKER_02:
But like at the same time, you know, it’s like you’ve got Terry, then you also have people that are kind of turfy, right? The trans exclusion, uh, you know, the people that are they’re radical feminists, but they don’t see trans people as part of you know, part of this umbrella that that needs to be supportive. And like Yeah, it’s uh it’s complicated.
Gavin:
So speaking of complicated, then also, uh you went to the beach, I think, uh last year, maybe?
SPEAKER_02:
Yeah, or even recently. But Gabin, have you ever been to or David, have you ever been to Re-Speech, the gay beach?
David:
No, I’ve never even well I’ve been to many gay beaches, and and I’m gonna use an umbrella term for gay beach because that could mean a beach where a lot of gay people go, and it could also be like the cruisy woods by the beach. Um but uh I have never been to, I’ve never even heard of that beach. Re speech?
Gavin:
R-I-I-S, the People’s Beach. Oh yes. I love that it’s called the People’s Beach, but also known as like a gay beach. That’s awesome. And so you you so yeah, tell us about um going there.
SPEAKER_02:
Well, uh yeah, so there’s a portion of the beach, right? It’s a public beach, and that it’s a huge, huge, huge public beach. But there’s a portion of it off to the side. Like once the boardwalk ends, there’s a alcove that over the years has become known as Gay Beach, because it’s like away from everybody. Over the years, it’s just became the the the place to go. And I’ve been there where it’s like the beach can be crowded, you know, moderately crowded, but the gay beach area is just packed because everybody wants to be someplace where they can be seen and be themselves. And you know, so so bodies are on display in a way that’s just very liberating, right? So it is it there’s some toplessness, but it’s also, you know. Is it really topless if you’re transmasculine? Right.
SPEAKER_04:
Right?
SPEAKER_02:
Like it’s well, still. Right. And it’s it’s beautiful though. Like, and I’ve uh over the years I’ve I’ve came out and gone to re I’ve found it to be very like liberating. So but and it’s also wholesome, right? Like that’s the thing, is like it’s it’s not Oh, then I’m not interested. I’m sorry. Thank you. It’s not cuisine, it’s actually wholesome. Not interested. Well, maybe our versions are wholesome are not not not the same, but it’s I I feel like it’s wholesome because like it’s people, it’s queer people trying to be themselves, and like so we’ve we went there with the kids because like we wanted to be in that sense of community that we were talking about earlier, right? Like our friends were gonna be there. And last time we went though, foe, who’s you know going through puberty, pulled my partner aside and was like expressed that they were really nervous to go to the beach because they were basically make make a long story short, they were afraid they were gonna get turned on. Yeah.
David:
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that that’s a fear, right? I mean, I know that I had that fear, and and I mean, math class got me rock hard. I don’t know why, but I was always so terrified. I was like, why is algebra giving me a boner? But why did I wear sweatpants today?
Gavin:
Yeah, I mean, God. But I think it’s pretty awesome that Foe was able to express that. I mean, you’re doing something great by like, you know, like uh making a safe space for them and and for CC to to you know be their authentic selves.
SPEAKER_02:
Yeah, exactly. It’s it’s actually really cool that they were that we were as a family able just to kind of like acknowledge it and not be like and not be like, there’s nothing sexual about this. What are you talking about? Absolutely. You know, it’s like, oh look at the straight part of the beach. Like it’s doing they’re doing the same thing, just it’s normative and permissible.
Gavin:
Yeah, totally. I I think uh like for instance, uh I mean a bunch of women in string bikinis and a man in a speedo with a big old gut hanging over his uh swimsuit, and we don’t criticize them, but uh but like hey, well, but still Danny, it is uh magical to be able to uh one be your friend and two to be able to talk about so many um beautiful aspects of you literally making the world a better place with your representation, your visibility, the family that you were raising. And I and your Gore banjo.
David:
And your didn’t see that didn’t see that one working into the interview, but it’s always welcome. So my something great this week is a TikTok as usual, but it is borderline changed my mid-afternoon life. So if you are on TikTok, I imagine you have seen this. There’s like this like lemonade with vanilla protein powder smoothie thing that people are making. It literally has two ingredients. I guess it’s three ingredients it’s ice, one scoop of vanilla protein powder, and sugar-free lemonade. Given it is so fucking delicious. I cannot explain to you. It’s a total of 85 calories. If you do protein powder, it is the way to do it. Basically, you basically over blend it and it basically has the consistency of like whipped cream. It is so fucking delicious. I can’t even explain.
Gavin:
What I can’t get past the fact that is that you are a protein powder person. Are we still?
David:
I’m not no, no, I was never a protein powder person until I saw this TikTok. So basically, I’m gonna be swole now, right? That’s how that works. What does that mean? Swole, like like muscular. Oh, like swollen. Yeah. Do we say swole? Yeah, well, we did in the late 90s. Yeah. No, no, we did in the late 90s.
Gavin:
Do you think the kids are saying that right now? I really don’t think so. No. Uh well, my something great is there is an Instagram daddy that I have followed for a really long time. Um, and by daddy, I see your eyebrows going up there. He’s just a daddy. I have no idea what his sexual preference is, but uh he is kind of a daddy. And my kid uh found his YouTube channel, actually. My younger son found his YouTube channel, and his his handle is the dad lab, and all he does is little simple, fantastic science experiments for um for social media. But the reason I’m celebrating him right now is because just the other day, my son came comes down and he goes, Hey, I want to do this experiment. I need a candle and matches and a bowl of water. And I’m like, What? And I was kind of doing the dishes, I wasn’t really paying attention. He grabbed a candle and the matches. I mean, he is 10. I trust him to do it. And he did a little science experiment where he lit a candle uh on a plate with some water in it, put the glass over it, extinguished the candle, and then the water sucked up into the glass. And he was so proud that he did it himself. And so, hey, at the dad lab, thank you for inspiring my kid to do science projects on his own that don’t involve me and he didn’t burn the house down.
David:
And that’s our show. If you have any comments, suggestions, or general compliments, you can email us at gatriarchspodcast at gmail.com.
Gavin:
Or you can DM us on Instagram. We are at Gatriarchspodcast. On the internet, David is at DavidFM Vaughn everywhere, and Gavin is at GavinLodge on uh at dinner time.
David:
Please leave David a glowing five-star review wherever you get your podcast.
Gavin:
Thanks. And we will trip over you next time on another episode of Gatriarchs.