Full Transcript
So all right, well let’s just do what we have and then see if it it makes sense.
Gavin:
And if not, then hey, is this now I confess. Is this the typing you were hearing? I hear that. What is that? That’s my Rubik’s Cube that I play with.
David:
Gate fucking Lodge. I knew it. I knew there was something happening off camera. What the fuck? And this is Gatriarchs. So listen to this fucked up shit. I was literally just upstairs, literally just upstairs with my husband, and my husband was like, guess what? I was like, what? He said, we got a letter from the town about our grass. That is some Stepford shit right there. So listen, we uh I am not great about cutting the grass. I try to cut it once every two weeks, but inevitably, listen, I’m a really big time podcaster now, so my time is limited. Um but I was literally planning on cutting it today. And he got they like stuck a letter through our mail slot and it basically says, your grass is higher than 12 inches. A number one, which is a lie. There is uh there is a weed that is taller than the rest of it, is just like a little overgrown grass. Yeah. Anyway, how fucked up is that? I’ve I feel very attacked.
Gavin:
I you should feel like it’s superficially speaking, you have been very attacked. Also, do they realize that your son just goes out there and pisses in the um grass all the time? There’s so much piss in that grass. I mean, you don’t even have dogs, but you have pea stains just from your child out in front in your foot-tall grass.
David:
If we had gotten a cease and de cist letter for your three-year-old pissing in the front yard, I would have been like, you know what, you’re right. You’re so right.
Gavin:
You’re so right. Like we live in a civilized society now and we don’t let our children go out and do that. But um also before you cut it, which I re-imagine you’re about to skidaddle right now and get out there out there and cut it, take a picture of the kid pissing in the grass. Because I want to see like his little butt cheeks from the back standing in in uh grass that is literally as high as an elephant’s eye before you cut it, because that’s gonna be make some great photography.
David:
It is, I will I will take actually a picture, and whenever we have our show notes, which will never exist, um I will post a picture. I will post a picture of the grass. It is not overgrown. It’s needs to be cut. But you’re thinking of like if you lay in the grass, you would disappear. I’m telling you, it’s like major.
Gavin:
Do you think this is a hate crime? They’re like, how are we gonna go get those gays? We’re gonna get them. We’re gonna get them at their manicured lawn, which you are not representing the the stereotype here. Thanks a lot, David, for screwing it up for the rest of us. Is this your gay agenda?
David:
I know that is totally my gay agenda. Uh, the other thing that I want to complain about before we talk about real things is um, so we are very fortunate what we have been reviewed very well by the the powers that be in the internet. We’ve had a lot of really nice five-star reviews from our listeners. Thank you so much. That’s that shit actually matters for those of you who don’t understand how all of that works. Like, we as a podcast really struggle to get in front of people other than the obvious like you sharing our links, which is very helpful.
Gavin:
The way the algorithm works is that we’ve got a crowded world out there with a lot of people.
David:
Feed it reviews and feed it likes and all that kind of stuff, it starts to kind of come to the surface. Anyway, we’ve gotten a lot of really great ones. We did get one four-star, and their review was basically like, love the show, everything is great. However, Gavin and your grass is too high. Yeah, exactly. They said Gavin and David talk too fast. Why do you have to talk too fast? So, a number one, I get it. I am a fast talker, I garble my words. Um, I’m not meant to be in the performing arts, even though this has been my entire life. However, I think I figured out why the other day. So I was watching um the the one of my favorite podcasts is Smartless, and they have a documentary on TV, and I was watching it, and I kept feeling I was like, why is it taking why are they speaking so slow? I kept thinking, are they drunk? Are they high? Like, what is going on like in my brain? And then I realized I listened to podcasts at one and a quarter speed. Uh and I have gotten used to all of the podcasts I listened to, which inspired this one Smartless, Savage Love, Script Notes, these are all like Radio Lab, these are all of my favorite podcasts, but they all I have been listening to them at one and a quarter speed. Did you know years? Did you know you were the one and a quarter? Yeah, no, I do it because like it just I was like, let’s move, let’s move it on. Yeah. So I think what I realized was in my head, that’s what these podcasts sound like, and that’s the kind of vocal gait I need to be taking. And then I realized, oh no, David, you’re just misinformed because you’re listening to it too fast. So to the to the person who reviewed us by speaking too fast, you’re probably right.
Gavin:
And apologies, and I will not change my behavior. That right. We are no apologies, I would actually say, and we’re not gonna change it. Although I have to say, I mean, we’ve talked about how we have podcast voices. I know I have a podcast voice, and by podcast voice, I don’t mean an NPR voice. I mean, this is not how I sound when I talk normally, I admit. It’s a little bit more than a lot of things. Yeah, he sounds kind of like this.
David:
Hi, I’m Kevin, and I’m stupid. That’s what he sounds like normally.
Gavin:
That is the that is literally. That was that was very stupid. Of all the stupid shit you’ve said about me, that is was absolutely the stupidest. But anyway, I definitely have a different uh it’s a pr it’s I can’t help it, you know? It’s we all talk about it’s perfectly. You talk higher, you talk faster, but also I would say that I screw up my words all the time, probably because I’m trying to talk too quickly and keep up with you.
David:
Yeah, I need to slow down, I need to slow down, I need to enunciate my words. However, it is really good for our cold opens because the majority of our cold opens are you or I stripping over words and fucking everything up.
Gavin:
So yeah. And yeah, and that is the essence of Gatriarch. So uh a little topic that I was gonna bring up is sex. And that’s unfamiliar. And that people it is hilarious to me. And this is a mostly generational thing, but let’s face it, we live in a prudish, uh, conventional puritanical society where everything is missionary position between a man and a woman, right? And I was just having a conversation just actually yesterday, August 8th, 2023. Yesterday was August 8th. Whatever. Anyway, I’m kidding about the date, but it was just yesterday from the time that we’re recording this right now that um it was somebody who I guess, I mean, they seemed I know that they were totally gay friendly. There wasn’t anything homophobic about it, but he did say, Oh, so you have kids, so you must have been married to a woman before. And I’m like, What what is this? 1998? Uh okay. And I said, No, no, no, my no, no, no. Isn’t that when Titanic came out? Anyway. No, come on. Titanic was 98. No, no, no. I’m gonna look it up right now. Hold on. Okay. Well, anyway, and he was like, Um, oh, so you had kids 97. Boom. You had you had kids yourself, just uh just like Jack and um what’s her name from Rose, just like Jack and Rose. I’m like, no, it wasn’t exactly like Jack and Rose. We did surrogacy, and he’s like, Oh, how did the uh never uh never mind, I I don’t need to know about that. And he had a look on his face like he just smelled vinegar, like he didn’t want to know about penises creating babies. And I thought, wow, are we really are we that prudish? Uh, there have been other times, and it’s mostly generational, let’s be honest, where um people just don’t want to think about other people naked, you know? Or they don’t think that’s performative.
David:
I think that’s that’s like I feel like the the there’s that’s all straight on mentality about I’m not gonna fucking touch that. That’s fucking gay. Blah blah blah. It’s like stop it. You know that’s not true. Yeah, it is performative, so everyone knows how fucking strange you are. Yeah, the whole like, oh, I don’t want to know. First of all, fuck you. Fuck you. I gotta hear about your stupid stuff. Because I know how you did it. Yep. Yeah, I know how you I had to watch Titan, I had to watch her little hand slap the side of that car. I know what was going on in the car. You forced that shit on me. But but but it’s all it’s it’s all so stupid. Like, I listen, I did it too. I will be honest. Like, when I came out of the closet, I was 20 years old, I was in college, and I flew out of that closet and I put on this like, ew, vaginas are gross, girls gross, I’m so gay, I’m so anti that. And it was just armor. I was trying to like rectify all of the pretending I had done for so long. For 20 years. And yeah, and f and fight the other side. So, so I am, I am for sure. Listen, we’re we at Gatriarchs, we are hypocrites. So I am a fucking hypocrite about nothing else. But like, let’s all stop it, right? Like, we’re all done with this. Vaginas aren’t gross, penises aren’t gross, butts aren’t gross. The only thing gross is what, Gavin? What’s funny? Be funny, go.
Gavin:
Oh God, I’m the tall one. What the only things that are gross are um and now I can only think about buttholes. That’s uh that’s that’s all I can think about.
David:
That’s gonna be your epitaph. Can only think about buttholes, Gavin Lodge. 2023.
Gavin:
Oh, yeah. Well, anyway, I didn’t make this guy feel uncomfortable, and I was like, yeah, well, there were like we should I think I think we gotta go the other way.
David:
I think when somebody is performatively grossed out by gay sex, we need to go into graphic detail about how that works. All right. I mean, there’s I actually am unaware. Do you there’s do you know? I don’t know how that works.
Gavin:
There’s a book that I might actually recommend right now that’s being banned um and moved around in libraries all over the place called Let’s Talk About It, The Teen’s Guide to Sex Relationships and Being a Human. Let’s talk about it. Let’s uh let’s talk about it and put that right in front of these people who say, uh, I I don’t want to know. I don’t want to know. Oh, come on. Well, Gavin, why don’t we talk about this week’s top three list? Speaking of things that make you go, ew, disgusting foods you have eaten that make you realize you’re a dad now. You are a dad. So my for number three for me was eating toast off the floor that my kid had thrown, and I was so pissed that they had thrown the toast on the floor, and it landed butterside down. But I picked that up to make a point and looked right in her little one-year-old face and took a bite of it and ate the entire thing. There was definitely dog hair on it. Number two, mashed bananas. I’m definitely I’m a yeah, I’m a maybe you’re a texture person too. I’m a texture person. And mashed bananas absolutely I mean a banana that’s even vaguely overripe. I can’t do it. Um, absolutely. And but I had to uh show my kids that eating um bananas and eating mashed things was indeed what you’re going to fucking do. So I will do it and demonstrate it and and gag, but shh hide my gag reflex. But number one was the time when my kids were in preschool or kindergarten and I picked up a lunchbox and I said, Hey, why didn’t you eat your lunch yesterday? And they said, because it was mushy, and I picked it up. This I think it was literally salmon, it was smoked salmon and cream cheese that was a day old. And I looked at it and was like, it’s not mushy, and I ate it. And I thought, I just took a bite of my kids’ leftover fish sandwich from the day before. Oh well, and I just ate it. And it wasn’t it was and you lost so much weight, you’ve never been skinnier.
David:
You grew up for weeks, and you’re like, I look amazing.
Gavin:
That was that that was my number one. What about you? What disgusting things that you’ve eaten that make you realize, oh god, I’m a dad.
David:
Mine are mostly categorical, but but so and number three, teething crackers. I will pop a teething cracker in my mouth as a snack if there’s one left over on the counter and I’m kind of hungry, and I never thought I would be eating a teething cracker, but there you go. Um, number two, this is a little bit of crossover for us, uh, floor stuff. Stuff on the floor. I will just grab something off the floor and eat it. No, just just I’m hungry and I don’t have time to eat. Or not even hungry. Yeah, that’s the thing too. I mean, just whatever. And number one, I am ashamed, but I have for sure done this. Scraping like food out of the corner of your kid’s mouth and then eating like an oatmeal, like oatmeal mouth, and you kind of scrape it off and just kind of pop it into your mouth.
SPEAKER_03:
Ugh.
David:
So, yeah, listen, I’m not proud of it, but I I like to be honest here on the show.
Gavin:
So I’m feeling gag reflex right now. I really am. I really am.
David:
So next week, I want to talk about the top three things that you miss now that you’re a parent.
Gavin:
That many things are already coming to mind. Let’s hurry up and get to next week. Our guest this week is the chief program officer of the Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender Community Center of New York, which is most commonly known as the center. It is uh the center of so much history and uh community and culture. It’s an honor to have him here. He has been a leader in nonprofit management for the past 20 years, though you would not know that looking at that fantastic lighting right now. He’s a father of six-year-old twins. And honey, can he tell us about meddlesome helicopter parents? A big gateriarch, welcome to Daniel Reyes. Thank you for being here. Hi, Daniel.
SPEAKER_00:
Hi, thank you for having me.
Gavin:
Daniel, can you tell us a horror story of your own parenting journey? We love them here. We love it.
David:
The messier, the better.
SPEAKER_00:
The messier. That’s what we’re gonna do. Uh let’s see. Um, I think one of the worst was uh uh Christmas Eve. Uh the boys were about one and sick.
Gavin:
So uh rooting holidays. Exactly.
SPEAKER_00:
So we’re all dressed up, looking cute, and uh one I was just holding him, and next thing I know, there’s projectile vomit all over me. So yeah. And then the other one went. So I was just like, oh dear. Oh, they were they were tag teaming, barping.
Gavin:
And what were you doing at the time? Were you trying to take like fancy Christmas pictures or something?
SPEAKER_00:
I was literally just picking them up, and like we were trying to like we were trying to pose for pictures, basically. And and I had one and then the I had the other, and then the one went, and then the other went, and well, that’s we we we uh did our family, our family Christmas photos in t-shirts.
Gavin:
Oh shoot, but you didn’t get a barfed on picture, unfortunately. Well, that’s what you needed is a barfed picture.
David:
You need that like a real window into parenting. No, no, god, especially two. Oh my god, I cannot imagine because there’s no way to keep them separated. I have two kids, but they’re you know, three and one. So it’s like you can kind of try, but they always get sick together. So twins, though, they’re for sure gonna get sick together.
SPEAKER_00:
Yeah, yeah. And they uh the the worst is when they like have synchronized poops, they need to poop at the same time.
David:
And I’m just like is that like a new Olympic event that we should be aware of?
SPEAKER_00:
It is, yeah. And then they’re both at the same time. Papa, I’m done. I’m like, oh my god, I’m running from bathroom to bathroom.
Gavin:
I mean, that that that that tracks for sure with having twins. That is another level for sure. And you were aiming for twins? Was that your plan?
SPEAKER_00:
I’m not aiming for twins.
Gavin:
So on that topic, will you tell us about your parenting journey? We’re always we all, I mean, as especially as gay people, we all have a unique path to parenthood. Can you tell us about yours?
SPEAKER_00:
So um I it’s basically two moms and myself, and we um so the way it turned out it happened was um the gestational mother is best friends with somebody that I went to grade school with. And we all had reconnected through Facebook, the friend, the classmate, and we went to like this small private uh Catholic school. Uh it was like very, very small in the city of Chicago, and like it turned out that like five of us were queer, and uh we had reconnected on Facebook, of course, Catholic churches, um to commiserate and uh talk about your trauma.
Gavin:
Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_00:
Exactly. And so uh the friend came from Chicago to visit, and this was years ago, and apparently the gestational mother was there, and so I don’t remember that. And fast forward to a few years ago, and she reached out to me on Facebook and said, Oh, do you remember so and so uh you met her, and um and well, she’s married now and she’s trying to have kids, and they really feel like they need to know the father. And so basically, I thought of you, and she was like, You’re you’re attractive, you’re successful, what do you think? And I was like, Oh, well, thank you so much for the things. Yes, hair flip.
Gavin:
You said all the right things.
SPEAKER_00:
Uh and so then we really set about getting to know each other, and we did a little bit of courting, and uh, and then we decided to try together. We said, Okay, let’s do this.
David:
Wait, so they so she wanted to have she was basically looking for a sperm donor-ish, but that she wanted to have an existing relationship with. So she was inviting you to be the sperm donor or to be a co-parent.
SPEAKER_00:
She was inviting me, well, she was inviting me to be the role that I wanted to be. And so we had spent um almost a year talking about it and like what would what would my role be? How often would I see the kids, what would they know me as? Um, what role would my family play? So we had talked through all of this. Um then she got pregnant, and we we did IVF, so they put two in, and then two were gonna come out. Check him out, yeah. Um, but the pregnancy was so difficult, and um, she was in and out of the hospital, and I’m like ever the cheerleader, hey, it’s okay, we’ll be good, everything’s gonna be fine. And I think the boys were born at 26 weeks, and it was just challenging, and basically all of our plans went out the window, and all of a sudden, you know, the three of us really kind of bonded and started to be three parents instead of a unit, yeah, yeah, a parental unit. Yeah, and we really just kind of like fell into this big queer family, and so I’m in the boys’ life and I see them all the time. I’ve lived in the house with them with the boys for like two years, and we were like, I felt like maybe we’re being a little bit hippie-like, but a little commune-like.
Gavin:
Well, I mean, hey, tribal living is what all of humanity had until about, you know, I don’t know, up 1500, but before I mean it wasn’t just it didn’t just come down to a heteronormative uh uh man and woman uh raising a kid. It really does take a village. And so it it I bet it had its challenges, but it had its benefits.
SPEAKER_00:
It it did actually. I think what we learned to find is the path where we have our own parenting approaches amongst the three of us, and we respect those approaches. I think we’re all in aligned in many ways, so it just differs in slight, slight variations. Um, so we don’t really, it doesn’t really, it’s never really become an issue. I think we’ve had like maybe one conversation um like years ago. Um, but I think that was really it. Um but you know the boys were so um so fragile, their health was so precarious that like a cold would put them in the hospital. And so, you know, I think we really struggled, and even now as we have twins, it’s like three grown-ass adults, and we still struggle, you know.
David:
So wait, what are so you are what is your what what do they call you? Papa. Papa. Okay. And so you guys are just kind of a three-person family, yeah. Right?
SPEAKER_00:
Like Yeah. We go to, I mean, we show up at the school together, you know, with the school, everyone knows there’s two mommies and a daddy, and you know, and they’re you know, like, oh, papa’s here, because that’s what the kids call me. So we’re like, oh papa’s here to pick up the kids.
Gavin:
So I mean, this does there are elements of this being a sitcom, and I’m not sure. Oh, is it or is it a drama? I mean, uh and the idea that you had a sit down conversation about what is our parenting approach, and I’m thinking, is this was it screaming going on, or was it incredibly professional and uh and methodical?
SPEAKER_00:
I think it was methodical because one’s a therapist, the other one’s a nurse, and I’m you know do probably executive management.
David:
So I’m just like we all there’s no like actors who are feeling emotional about things. Was that that that’s all no, no, no.
SPEAKER_00:
I will tell you, I it took me a minute to kind of understand um the communication between the moms and like and the communication like I would be in the house and there would be like 10 lesbians and me, you know, and like I’m like not picking up on the cues because I’m a little bit dense. And then I would later on they were like debriefing, like, did you hear that? Did you hear that? I was like, wow, no, I did not hear that. What interesting.
Gavin:
So and I mean there’s so many cliches to be uh jokes to be made, frankly. But I know that they’re just based on cliches and uh and uh uh superficialities, but like a gay man with two lesbians, there’s a lot of fodder for comedy there. Absolutely.
David:
I can’t get over my head like a room full of lesbians. Like, what is a group of lesbians called? Right, a flock of the colour. Like a murderer, like a koozie, uh yeah, you know what I mean? Yeah, like a jigsaw, I don’t know.
SPEAKER_00:
I mean, I would never I never really I would never realize until someone pointed out to me, like, you know, you’re the only man other than the boys in the house. And I was like, oh, I never thought about it that way. So um, you know, it took took some adapting, but now I don’t even think about it.
Gavin:
So well, let’s I want to talk lots more about parenting, but we’re also so privileged to have you here because you play a leadership role at the center, which is so obviously amazing. Can you give us a sense of um I mean the center was founded in large part to give support to community, especially at the height of the AIDS crisis? And now, um, how has the sh the center shifted just in the last couple of years that you’ve been there?
SPEAKER_00:
Yeah, so I really think that the center has um uh really taken an approach of thinking about where are we at as community and and where is you know, kind of working through the pandemic really kind of upended everything. And so that really gave us the opportunity to understand what our new reality would be and how we would actively engage in community. Um, and so the center has really been very intentional about thinking about the way we create events and the way we think about um what areas of the community that we want to amplify and and how we want to um think beyond the walls of the center. I think often uh the center, because it had established 40 years ago that it was very much the the building itself was was the kind of the jewel, and we we really kind of asked expected people to come to us. And so, you know, when the pandemic hit and everyone was remote and we were providing remote services, there was this kind of rupture in the connectivity, and so as we started to come back, it really caused the center to think to really kind of go back to its its origin and to really think about how do we engage community and how do we meet community where they’re at, and so we have really been intentional about yes, obviously the beautiful the building is beautiful. If you’ve ever been here, it’s a beautiful building, yeah. Um but the center also is about going out and being in community with other people and understanding that we have to have presence across the city, and and I think that’s been a bit of a shock to the system for some staff who’ve been here for a while, but I really feel like um it it really sends a message to people that we care enough and we want to be in dialogue and in community with you that we will come to you and you come to us and and we’ll figure out what the cadence is is gonna look like for for whoever that person is. Because I think that uh the center is such a unique organization that your experience with us is basically how you engage with us. So if you’re your if your initial step is like coming for an HIV test, well then that’s gonna be your experience of the center. If your experience is coming for a group that rents a room here, then that’s gonna be your experience for for being at the center. And so I think we have to kind of really be intentional and think about that all the time. And so uh I’m doing a lot of running around, but I love it.
David:
So this is the building that has the the bathroom painted with like Keith Herring stuff, right? Keith Herring bathroom. That was a that was a great poop. I gotta tell you, that was a fun poop just to sit in that bathroom and look at the ceiling. It’s beautiful, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:
It’s no longer a bathroom, but yes. It’s a it’s a it’s a it’s obviously an homage to Keith Herring and it’s used as a meeting room, but the urinal stall things are still there, but oh they are the urinals are still there. The piping. The piping, you can see it.
Gavin:
To just keep uh connected to history. And so imagine, or I imagine that when you talk about going out to the community and whatnot, does that mean that the center will go out and uh sponsor pop-up events out outside so that it’s not okay, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:
So we, you know, um, so like uh uh recently we’re in conversation with a city council member in that represents Forest Hills. Uh her perspective is a queer woman who believes that like there’s just not enough out there, and really turning to the center to look for what we can do with with her office and with the community out there. And um, so one of the things we’re talking about is to bringing center families, which is the the family fun day that we do here, to have it go out there and and really kind of attract families out in Forest Hills in the Regal Park area. So um awesome, which needs to happen.
Gavin:
I mean, in my experience there uh doing the what was it called? Um play, no, play together. Kidding around. Kidding around, thank you. Kidding around. It was um it was definitely uh a fancy event that on so once a month that was really fun and catering to a very gay sensibility and gave a very much a gay west side Chelsea West Village sensibility, which was fancy but also felt a little performative. Like I was in intimidated, I thought I gotta dress up for this battle because man, there is gonna be some eye candy and these. Gavin, did you put on your fancy crocs? Oh my god, absolutely. And I I mean, with the fancy socks to go under the um fancy crocs to impress. I mean, it was there was some good um good cruising that uh could be had on a Saturday morning, but I would imagine also, hey, that is um it’s time to move on beyond um being absurdly fancy and catering to um to those kinds of families because they are the families that need representation or community, I would imagine.
SPEAKER_00:
Yeah, yeah. No, we you know, I think it’s sometimes it can be wonderful, you know, and it can be very inviting, that kind of fancy, you know, air. But it also sends a message to some people that it’s not for them. And um, and we want to be really uh intentional about it. So um when when we kind of stopped uh kidding around because of the pandemic three years later, we decided to bring it back. Um but I I really was you know talking to the where it used to live in our development department as well. So that again sends a message to people. And so we moved it over to the city.
Gavin:
Which means the the message being this is about making money. It’s about making money. It’s a fundraiser, yeah. Yes, which is not supporting communities or supporting families. Exactly.
SPEAKER_00:
So we you know we moved it to the program portfolio, and I really set about working with the teams to think about like, well, what could this be? Uh and how do we hit it in the right way and strike the right tone where it can be something for for uh more people than just this particular subset. And so um we renamed it Center Families. Um, we really promote it as a free play day, and you know, it’s more um interactive. We try to do like we do bring in drag story hour, we bring in little dance companies.
David:
How dare you indoctrinate those poor children? I know.
Gavin:
You and your gay you and your gay agenda.
SPEAKER_00:
Yes, our gay agenda, keeping the children quiet for 30 minutes. Um so you know, we try to do very, you know, like right now we’re planning for the rest of the year. Um we take a break in July and August, and so we’re gonna start in in September, and it’s Latina History Month, and so we’re gonna bring in a Mexican dance group that’s gonna teach the children to dance, and we’re gonna do something for Black History Month, and so we’re trying to we’re trying to bring things in that are reflective of the communities that we really want to amplify and we want to engage, but in a way that really invites everybody in. So I think that’s the thing that we really want to send the message home, and then we’re gonna do the fancy things too, because like we gotta have a fabulous Halloween party, we gotta have fabulous Christmas parties.
Gavin:
I mean, fabulosity, fabulosity is a spirit and a vibe, it doesn’t have to be about money, obviously. So bring it, bring it. Will there be projectile vomit at your Christmas party at the center?
SPEAKER_00:
I hope not, but you never know.
Gavin:
I mean, surely there’s been an awful lot of projectile uh pooping and vomiting that has had to be picked up there.
SPEAKER_00:
Yes, I’ve taken my kids to the center family’s events, and I’m just like, please don’t fight with anybody.
David:
I have to tell my kid, my I have to tell my son to please stop peeing in public. Like please stop just pulling your penis out and just peeing in the front. Oh my god, that would be that would be my kid if that ever happened.
SPEAKER_00:
Yeah, mine, my mine are similar. They’re like, Papa, my penis, it’s so soft. I’m like, please don’t do that in public.
Gavin:
And yet at the same time, at the same time, visibility and representation. Like it’s a body.
David:
We don’t want the visibility of our children’s penises at public.
Gavin:
All right, that’s true, that’s true, that’s true. I mean, so I would imagine you have witnessed an awful lot of parenting styles uh in your role at the center. I mean, please tell us, have there what are the lessons you have learned of how not to parent in observations you’ve made?
SPEAKER_00:
Um, yeah, you know, I think that it’s watching the parents interact is different than watching the children interact. Oh yeah.
Gavin:
Because we’re the worst.
SPEAKER_00:
Yeah, well, children organized.
Gavin:
Gay, straight or otherwise, parents are the worst.
SPEAKER_00:
Yes, yes. So like uh I think um like what I often see is like parents are um kind of like hovering over their children in a way that like the kids just want to run and be free and throw throw goldfish at each other and you know and tumble. And and I I notice how like, and I see this all the time even with my kids, how like you’d send them to the playground and they just organize themselves, right? They know what they’re doing. And uh and I think what ends up happening is that like one parent thinks that their kid is is being a little extra, and then they try to kind of get involved. And sometimes we try to like gently say, it’s it’s okay, let the we we’ll let the kids play. It’s we’re we’re we’re plenty of staff are here, we will make sure it everyone is okay. So I think that what we we’re trying to do is like figure out activities where we can kind of like maybe put the parents aside and like display because some of that, as we talked about a couple episodes ago, is like there’s this performative discipline, right?
David:
Like they’re disciplining their kids performatively for the other parents and for you. And yeah, you just you kind of need to be like, parents, you go on that side of the wall, we’re gonna stay over on this side of the wall, and the kids can throw water balloons at each other. Yes, yes.
SPEAKER_00:
But they have a, you know, and I also I will say that they like to, I mean, what we have actually done this time is that we take in the feedback from from our parents as well. So it’s important to know what they think of what’s important. Um, but sometimes it’s a little over the top. I’m just like, all right. Um, so I think one time I had a parent who was telling me, um, well, if I had known you were gonna have this activity, I would not have like given up dance class for my child. And I was like, oh, I’m so sorry. So well, um, what do you think would make it better?
David:
So it’s the ultimate equality, is that gays can be terrible, annoying parents too. Yes, exactly.
SPEAKER_00:
No, just asking.
Gavin:
And when you have your kids at uh events, do you have to do you refrain from being performatively helicopter-y? Like you think, oh my god, I have my kids need to be model kids.
SPEAKER_00:
No, no, no, not at all. I listen, I will let my kids run free as long as no one’s been hurt, no one’s been killed, everyone is good.
David:
So there is a weird trepidation you feel when you’re like, you’re gonna like, I’m gonna let my kids figure it out and they’re around other kids. You see that, like you see them starting to get into some conflict, and you’re like, I really want to step in, but I’m just gonna let it happen and see because they they do, they gotta learn all that stuff, they gotta form their own little social contracts. But it is kind of terrifying to watch your kid be like, I know he’s gonna slap her in the face. I know he’s gonna do it. I can feel it coming, and I’m just they’ve just gotta figure this stuff out.
SPEAKER_00:
Yeah. Well, I the only thing I really try to do when I uh I’m at uh at the center of families with my kids is that they will like we have snacks and like juice and like little and they just will want everything. And I really try to, they’re very hyper kids, so like I try to restrict the sugar a lot. So, like, okay, you get one juice box for the day, that’s it, that’s your sugar content. You either have juice box or you have ice cream, but not both. Uh-huh. Uh, and they’ll like they will conspire against me. I’ll turn away and they’re like, quickly, go get it.
David:
Oh, of course. Of course. They call it a distraction. Yeah. They call it a bomb threat and then they run in. Yeah, no.
SPEAKER_00:
Yes, exactly. Uh they have had people, they have people said uh that that they will tell each other, don’t listen to what Papa said, just go do it.
Gavin:
So just like I mean that I mean you are outnumbered with twins, and at six years old, that is there, they are pushing their envelopes without a doubt. So um, drag queen story hour, has uh has that been at all controversial for you all at the center, or are you free of controversy because you’re at the center and who and it’s all good? Bring all the drag queens to read all the books they can.
SPEAKER_00:
It actually has been, you know, um, we had one kind of large event that wasn’t tied to center families, but it was the attorney general who had this kind of drag story marathon. And we had that was a very public, you know, that it was in the news media, and there was a lot of like every person you think would come out in protest came to protest. But we had a lot of people who came were counter, like, but they would like bring out these parasols and kind of cover the families so that they couldn’t see all this.
Gavin:
That was creative uh response for sure.
SPEAKER_00:
So I mean that what we had that one incident, and I think um it was like some Proud Boys showed up, and um but it was just one, I think there were two two folks got arrested, but nothing major happened. But outside of that, you know, my my approach or my perspective is that this is an LGBTQ space, and you know, if you throw your ass out in here, it’s a hate crime. So not only do you commit a crime, but you commit a hate crime. So think twice about what you’re gonna do here.
SPEAKER_03:
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:
Um, and so um that that that was kind of my perspective on that particular event. So I was worried, but not too worried because I was like, we have there’s plenty of people here, we’ll be okay. For Santa families, when they come, nothing. There’s no because there’s no news media, because there’s no, you know, no pomp and circumstance, we just have it as part of the day. Um, we don’t have any issues with it.
David:
So I don’t know why I’m obsessed with it. I’ve talked about it so many times in this podcast. Something about like the people being against drag queen story hour, it just kind of blows my fucking mind. And I I said a couple weeks ago, I went to my I went to my first with my kid. I had been obviously very supportive, but I went to my first. And you know what it was? It was a drag queen reading a book to kids. Like, like that’s all like they were like, hey, there was a story about puppies. Like, do you who has puppies here? And kids would raise their hand and be like, she would be like, great. And I was just like, what what are we fucking freaking out about? Wait, but you I I think since you’re the boss, you’re one of the bosses of the gays, I want to ask you a favor on a question. And this may be controversial, everyone. I’m sorry. I think we have too many letters. Can we be more inclusive by using saying one word for our community? I don’t know what the word is. Is it bagels or something where it’s like represent LGBTQI plus? I’m totally fine with that, but it’s hard to say. Can we just rebrand ourselves as my computer?
Gavin:
And also it gets in the way because the people who don’t understand and what and don’t and choose not to understand are like it’s just too many letters, I just don’t know what to do, and it’s not that hard. It’s not that hard. But that’s me.
David:
But that’s me. Gaiman’s making fun of me. But no, no, like I feel like the more letters we add to be more inclusive, the more exclusive we be. Do you know what it does? So I’m wondering, can I mean maybe it’s the queer community, the bagel community, like I suggested. I’m I’m pro-bagel. I don’t know. I just feel like, is there a way we can rebrand ourselves to be one of those?
SPEAKER_00:
You know, I uh I often so I think that I often default to the queer, trans, and gender expensive community. That’s how I refer to it. I I also do think that like we must always amplify and and name our trans siblings because of especially everything that’s happening right now. So that should never not be part of the of the alphabet of what however we refer to it. But um, you know, it’s a generational thing too, because like we often will have like um like donor briefings or um we have like uh planned giving events, and inevitably the question comes up from an older um gay man that like how could how dare we use the word queer? It’s offensive, you know. But I actually and I think many people really have have have embraced that queer as a as kind of a pan term to really encompass everybody.
David:
Um yeah, because it makes different things and different to different time periods. Yeah, queer for sure. When I was in middle school was a slur.
SPEAKER_00:
Yeah, smear the queer. Yeah, smear the queer.
David:
Exactly.
SPEAKER_00:
Yeah, so I I think that that that uh I I I often tell folks use what you’re comfortable with, honestly. Uh because all of these, in essence, are buckets we’re put in. So, like um uh and often, you know, it’s from the exterior society that’s putting us in those buckets. So, I mean, I’m not gonna fight someone over a term that that may mean something to one person and something to another person. So I often encourage people to use what you’re comfortable with.
David:
Um although I will say I do appreciate the the the I think people think it’s a slur, but the alphabet mafia. I’m like, yeah, yeah, we’re the mafia. Come for us.
SPEAKER_03:
Come with us.
Gavin:
Um so I would imagine that in your experience uh doing executive management of nonprofits, surely the center is the most fabulous place you’ve worked.
SPEAKER_00:
It is, actually.
Gavin:
Yeah, I should hope. So, what’s the essence of the fabulosity of working at the center?
SPEAKER_00:
You know, um I will say that prior to coming to the center, I worked at uh a Latina multi-service agency in Connecticut. And that really brought to me it’s the identity-based work, honestly, that make that makes it, it changes the dynamics altogether. And so, you know, working in a Latina organization, uh, it really changed how I viewed the the how I approached the work. And then coming to here, you know, being able to be a queer brown immigrant man who like is doing the work, you are just your entire authentic self here. And so it’s like you never have to think, oh, should I say that or should I not say that? Or don’t should I hide this piece of me, you know, or do I code switch? Um, and so it’s like very, it’s like this freeing dynamic that you just in the 20 plus years I’ve been working, I’ve just never really had that till now.
David:
That’s mine’s the drive-thru of a Taco Bell. That’s where I feel the most me. Do you know what I mean? Just like just a little just a little bit ashamed, very hungry, very excited.
Gavin:
But except very, very excited. Well, um, Daniel, is there a uh a story that you can uh leave us with here of um just parenting trauma for yourself? Of like, oh my gosh, that that was a moment that I will never forget. Even when I’m old and uh in my own diapers, I will never forget that parenting moment that uh that’s that’s forever traumatized me but made me love my role as parent as we go from diapers to diapers.
SPEAKER_00:
Yes. Let’s see. I think most recent. Recently, so I I just came back from Chicago. I took my kids on a trip. Um, this is the first time they’d ever been on a plane. Um so I was very nervous about that. Um but it was fine. Um But uh I I think that um I found the the depths of my patience uh on that trip because I um I took the kids to love that.
David:
I so understand what you mean. The depths of my patience.
SPEAKER_00:
So I had taken the kids, I had gone on the trip with the kids and one of the moms, and um the we went to the in Pilson, which is the the Mexican neighborhood, they they have the Mexican Museum of Fine Arts. So we went there and it was raining, and we had I saw the the the the weather, I was like, oh, it should be okay, you know. So we drove out there and on the way back, all of a sudden this torrential rain, the streets started to flood, and like I’m trying to all the streets were closing. I couldn’t figure out a way to to get home to the hotel, and like the kids are fighting, they’re screaming, the the mom is getting nervous. She’s like trying to get them to be quiet, they’re not being quiet, and like and I’m just like, oh my gosh, all of this is happening. And I’m like, we I just I just need the car to not shut off. I don’t, I need it to not get caught in the water. So I mean it was so stressful, and so uh, and then I was like, All right, mijos, I need you to please be quiet and play with your toys. And they’ll be like, okay, Papa.
David:
They could tell in the tone of your voice, they recognize the tone.
SPEAKER_00:
But then a minute later, back to screaming and fighting and everything, and I’m like, okay, again, micos, please be quiet. So, and then the mother’s like, she’s like, Oh my god, what are we gonna do? What are we gonna do? I was like, Okay, I need you to just call, let’s all just calm down, let’s all calm down. I will get us home. I’ve driven in blizzards, I grew up in the Midwest, I know how to do this. So uh, but I think that three hours in the car, which should have been a 20-minute drive, that is awful, was insane. That is truly awful to be able to like keep everyone calm and to make sure everyone got home safe and that I didn’t like threaten timeouts or like pull over and say, I’m gonna pull over.
Gavin:
Good for you. You just flowed with it.
SPEAKER_00:
I flowed with it, and I’m not that normally that kind of person. So I’m just like, all right.
David:
You didn’t reach your hand in the backseat, just swapping it whenever you can get.
SPEAKER_00:
No, I know. I tried very hard. I was like, okay, I’ve got to stay calm for everybody because I mean everyone was having a meltdown.
Gavin:
So well, it’s not, I mean, talk about executive management skills right there. It’s just staying cool as a cucumber. Well, yes, Daniel, thank you for all you are doing for um the entire queer community um in New York City, uh, outside of New York City, and and all and for the Gatriarchs community as well. Thanks for demeaning yourself and spending time with us on our stupid little podcast.
SPEAKER_00:
Thank you. I appreciate the invitation.
David:
So my something great is uh today’s uh August 9th, and this is the birthday month for my son and also my husband. So um I’m very glad both of those people were born. Uh and so happy birthday, Emmett, and happy birthday, Brian.
Gavin:
I love you. Oh, happy birthday, Emmett and Brian. So my uh something great is just frankly being a family unit again because my uh partner has been doing so much traveling and it is he has been home actually doing an awful lot of work here, but he plays the piano. He’s a uh conductor, an orchestrator, and a composer. And he gets to sit at the piano. His favorite thing to do in the entire world is just to sit at the piano and play. And even if I don’t necessarily like what he’s playing, it is so fantastic to just hear a live piano being played. So um I’m gonna go along. I’m gonna I’m gonna double up on your schmaltziness and say it’s pretty great to have a talented partner who likes to play the piano lots and lots. And I love hearing it in the background. And with that, syrupy sounds like it’s a big one. Too sweet. This episode was too sweet. Everybody just go do something naughty, because that’s our show. If you have any comments, suggestions, or general compliments, you can email us at gatriarchspodcast at gmail.com.
David:
Or you can DM us on Instagram. We are at Gatriarchspodcast on the internet. David is at DavidFMVaughnEverywhere, and Gavin is at GavinLodge on Thread.
Gavin:
Please leave us a glowing five-star review wherever you get your podcast and sign up for our newsletter we promise to make you giggle. It is in our link on Instagram.
David:
Thanks, and we’ll see you next time on another episode of Gatriarchs.