Full Transcript
Yeah. I was literally like, what is it about my oh you you are you fucking gaslit me, bro? You gaslit me.
Gavin:
And this is catriarchs. So I was listening to NPR the other day. As you do. Insert joke here. Insert dick joke here. Like, uh, what do a penis and a Rubik’s Cube have in common? The more you play with it, the harder it gets. Gavin. I know. You’re a monster. You’re welcome. You’re an actual dad joke monster. I was listening to NPR the other day, and there was a woman who was being interviewed for having posted something called hashtag lazygirljobs. And it was a whole discussion of feminism and whatnot. But the main idea was that the woman was like, How do we have kind of a work hack for women that um don’t make you completely burn out with everything that you do, give the right amount, but have a um have a life balance, right? And what really stuck with me was a uh a quotation she had at the end which said, work like you don’t have kids and have kids like you don’t have a job. I’m gonna repeat that. Work like you don’t have kids, and but you have to have kids like you don’t have a job. And the whole idea was the unfair expectations being put on women to doing it all and having it all to fully commit to two things at the same time. And be the fucking best at both. And goddamn, don’t you ever show any weakness or any fractures or any anything because you have to be a good one? Which is so unfair because like not everybody can be me. Do you know what I mean? Like, not everybody can be me. Not everybody can be you. And so for the rest of us who are not able to be you, it did, of course, make me think, and listen, I wasn’t getting on a gay dad high horse of how dare you not include the gay dads, but it is very relatable that we have to work like we do. Well, yeah, I mean, I think society gives us a little more leeway in oh, you have kids too. And I don’t think they always give that to women, honestly, which is totally unfair. But we we have to balance it all at the same time, too. So it basically comes down to straight men, you know. It it’s uh they’ve created a world that sucks for the rest of us, you know, in terms of work life and family life balance.
David:
But it’s also it we talked about this. I can’t remember we talked about it last episode. I’m very confused about what episode. We’re on episode 32, girl. I know, 32, and it’s definitely September 27th today. Um, no, no, but the the idea that like gay parents have to be perfect parents to even be considered to be legitimate parents, right? Because I was saying, oh no, I we were talking um to Ben last week. We were talking about him uh, you know, having he’s like, I’m you know, I’m a great parent, I do this, and I do this, and it’s like we have to do that, yeah, and then we still get shit, but we should be allowed to be shitty parents, like just like everybody else is allowed to be.
Gavin:
Somebody else is allowed to be a shitty parent like me. So give everyone a break, women, men included. But it was I it’s the patriarchy, too, right? It’s the patriarchy, which is why we’re trying to create the gatriarchy, which is why we are here with gatriarchs.
David:
Wait, so well, I I am not actually the perfect parent, Gavin. If if you can believe that. What? If you can believe that, I know it’s very shocking. Um, and I have an example. Would you like to hear it? Please. So you know, or you remember that when you have a child in either daycare, I imagine this happens in earlier grades too. There’s a lot of art projects, and those art projects come home. Yeah, right? They come home. So your parents, your teachers maybe once a week, will send all the things, whatever. And they’re almost all stupid. They’re almost all like, oh, look, your daughter colored a star on this cr on this paper. I’m like, okay. And they’re like, don’t you want it? And so we have we have some hanging up, right? And then we have our grandma pile, which is stuff that we think she would love that we don’t want in our house anymore. And then, of course, we have the circular file of the trash. Yeah. Well, we throw almost everything away. Almost everything away. You are almost like I know. So the teachers of my son’s class, it was his last show and tell before he moved to pre-K4. And the big show and tell was gonna be bring back your favorite craft of the year. And my husband and I looked at each other and we went, oh no.
Gavin:
Oh shit. We throw all of them away. Do you document them in any way, or you’re just heartless, unsentimental monsters? Okay.
David:
No, we we we we will keep like there’s like five on our fridge right now that we think are really great or really unique or really cool. But you know, most of them are just like, look, they glued this paper to this paper. I’m like, what is that? Like, that’s not significant. Or if there’s something that like is really cute that says, like, we love you, happy Father’s Day, or I love my grandma, we’ll give, you know, appropriately. But most of the stuff that comes home is fucking garbage. So we were like, oh no, we can’t tell our teachers that somehow one of his stupid projects had been left on this like clipboard we have. And we were like, hey, Emmett, isn’t that your favorite project? And he was like, Yeah, we’re like, great, this is your show until this week. So I totally got busted for throwing all my kids’ stuff away.
Gavin:
Wow. I mean, I don’t want to say I’m a hoarder, but I can see behind you right now that you have lots of artwork on it. I know, and it’s what’s what’s ridiculous is this is all old shit too, because my kids are older now. They don’t bring artwork home anymore. Or their artwork isn’t cute and shitty. It’s just shitty now. Like, wow.
David:
So do I need to like pull from your like the future of being sad that they don’t come home with twigs glued to a piece of pink paper?
Gavin:
Hey, I think that we need another musical cue in our Gatriarch’s uh library, which would be the cue, the just you wait.
David:
The Gavin Lodge is just you wait. Just you wait, yeah. Okay.
Gavin:
Just you wait.
David:
We’ll work on that.
Gavin:
David FM, just you wait. Anyway, it’s um they don’t bring all home um artwork anymore. And frankly, isn’t artwork like the least our kids can do to pay their way in this world?
David:
They we can I expect them to be famous at some point. Because I want a boat. Dad wants a boat, and he can’t afford a boat, yeah. So he’s having many kids and hoping one of them will get famous and buy me a boat.
Gavin:
We are a house of Swifties, you might recall. And my daughter knows every lyric to every single song, and she sings tremendously, but she absolutely refuses to take piano lessons or guitar lessons. And I’m like, girl, you need to go out and be some Taylor Swift for me so that I can afford a boat someday. I anyway, you know great parents. Speaking of being uh great parents or not being great parents, I swore to myself I was never gonna be that family eating dinner at like 4:30 and five o’clock. Like I imagine people in what I look down upon as regions of the country that I think are boring, which is terrible. Everybody in North Dakota and Minnesota, we love you the most. Please like and like and subscribe and tell your all of your friends in North Dakota and Minnesota about it. But I wasn’t gonna be that guy. I wasn’t gonna eat early, I wasn’t gonna have sports six days a week, I wasn’t gonna collapse in front of the television and then just rinse and repeat every single day. But now that school has started again, uh our soccer either starts at like 5.15 or 6 every single day of the week, which means we have to excuse me, they go in tandem. So we have one at five and one at 6:30 or something like that. Point being, two days a week, we have to eat dinner at like 4:45. Otherwise, the kids don’t have any food, right? Gavin, that’s called lunch. You’re talking about lunch. And then all we do is fucking sports, and my partner and I are like, oh my god, sports. Why the emphasis on sports? Why are we just sports Ubers? And then we literally collapse on the TV. I fall asleep within minutes of anything happening, and I am now that guy. I didn’t want to be that guy, but I’m that guy.
David:
I well, but listen, parenting changes you. I I I am a sleeper, I need my sleep. Uh, I I need eight hours just to maintain this fucking goblin face that I have. And so I am now choosing to get up at, as I told you, 5:15. 5:30 every day because it is the only time of day where I am alone and I’m not exhausted. Because when the kids go to bed, it’s like 8:30, 8:45, and I’m asleep at 9.15. So, like that that half hour window is not enough for me to watch shows or or do do anything interesting. So I’ve I’ve become that guy, the guy I swore I’d never be, which is somebody who gets up when it’s still pitch black outside and goes for a walk and does the dishes and do all this stuff. So, yeah, listen, parenting will change you.
Gavin:
Ah, uh, it it really does. It really does.
David:
And you know what won’t change is our top three list.
Gavin:
Gatriarchs, top three list, three, two, one.
David:
Love that music. So cute. Thank you, Gavin, and thank you, Gavin’s husband. Um this is your no, this is my list this week. This is yours.
Gavin:
Top three things that were fun as a kid but aren’t as an adult.
David:
Oh man. So I I don’t know why, but I was so excited about this list. So for me. And number three, the Gravitron. Do you remember the Gravitron?
unknown:
What?
David:
The ride? The Gravitron at Fair’s where it’s like it looks like an it looks like a UFO and it just spins in a circle, and you lay on like the the red things and they slide up against the wall. Yes, I know exactly. And it presses you against the wall. When I was a kid, the Gravitron was the greatest fucking thing in the world. I love the Gravitron. So we have a state fair that comes to our hometown every year, and like three or four years ago, we went and there was the fucking Gravitron. I was like, I am getting on yes, Gravitron. I went on there and as it started to pick up speed, and everyone was being pressed against the wall, and everyone was like laughing and climbing up the wall. I literally was going, I can’t breathe. I can’t breathe. I can’t breathe. I’m too old for this shit. So, number three for me, Gravitron. I was a kid, not as an adult. All right. Uh number two, bubbles. Oh my god. Bubbles, a magical joy, right? When you’re a kid. When you’re an adult, bubbles equal sticky children and slippery floors. Yeah. And I hate them.
Gavin:
That’s hilarious. That is that is the most curmudgeonly get off my lawn. Oh, another cue, another sound cue we could use is a get off my corner.
David:
Even get off my lawn corner or whatever. Yeah, totally. Um, and number one for me, the thing that was so fun as a kid, and as an adult, I dread weekends. Weekends are just this open prairie of what are we gonna do with these kids who don’t want to be what wherever they are. Yeah. So um that’s my uh that’s my number one. What about you?
Gavin:
That is hilarious. I I’m I’m gonna make my honor roll mention here that you just provoked in my mind as related to your number one is summer. And I feel so bad saying that. I feel like I’m a such a loser by saying I hate summer, but it is all in the mindset. But I just think, oh God, it’s just two months of utter chaos, more money, more balancing of like demands with from kids and me with work and whatnot. I just dread it. But then I’m halfway through the summer, and then I’m like, oh my God, where’s the summer going? And so I need to change that mentality.
David:
I wonder if the people who listen to this show, like the people who are parents, listen to us talking like this and they go, Yeah, I totally get it. And then you have the people who are maybe not parents who are going, David and Gavin just hate their kids. Why? They don’t understand that that’s what they’re doing. Why did they do that? The connective tissue to all that is our obsession and our love of our children, but we just like to complain on the podcast because it’s more interesting. Anyway, so okay, what are about you?
Gavin:
Yeah, so number three for me, playing house. I loved playing imaginative, being doing imaginative work when I was a kid. I grew I grew up to be a fucking actor, right? I hate having imaginative play and playing house. And I I feel like I went through my time with that. My kids don’t do it anymore, which of course I miss it. Just you wait. But I it for those years that my daughter just wanted to play house with me, it was I would find any reason not to do it. So hated that. Number two, crafts. I hate crafts. I hate glue, I hate glitter, glitter, I hate play-doh, I hate the clay, I hate it all. And it like this just makes me feel again, so curmudgeonly and like, oh, the magic of childhood, the wonder of childhood, the imagination. Well, apparently I don’t have any wonder or imagination anymore, but I find it all died inside of you. It’s just it is in that cavernous pit inside of me that is desperate to be filled. Wait, what? Anyway, and number one, God, I feel again, this is embarrassing to admit. Yeah. Ice cream. What I loved ice cream as a kid. And the older I get, the less satisfying it is. It just kind of makes me feel bloated. And I’m like, it’s just not really as fantastic as I always wanted to be. Now don’t you judge me. Don’t you shut me up?
David:
I’m actually heartbroken. I’m heartbroken because the joy I have in that cold, cold, cold ice cream is unparalleled. And I’m sorry that it doesn’t exist for you anymore.
Gavin:
Just give me a cocktail.
David:
Yours is just at the bottom of a wine bottle.
Gavin:
Cocktail. Just give me a cold cocktail over ice cream any day, which is sad to admit. Okay, let’s talk about next week the three ways. I’m gonna bring it back from a couple episodes ago, my um idea. Three ways you, David Eff and Bond, should have your gay card revoked. Uh, we have a new friend to the podcast. Benny Burnett Smith is a father of two and has had an intimate, long-term relationship with an entity that is near and dear to all Gatriarchs, adjacent and otherwise, and that is Disney. But he’s so much more than just Disney and even a dad. Benny, welcome to Gatriarchs. Hi, Betty. Thank you so much. Thank you very much. Happy to be here. So you’re called a friend of Goofy, and I am curious as we jump in, what percentage of the friends of Goofy or Mickey or Donald or the Queen of Hearts or Tigger or otherwise are also friends of Dorothy?
SPEAKER_00:
Oh, wow. Um, I would say 30, 40 percent.
David:
Oh, oh, okay.
Gavin:
Pretty high percentage.
David:
So we should get some context here though. Like Benny, we’re talking about like you were a costumed character at Disney, right? Yeah. Okay, because I’m just thinking from the listener’s point of view, they’re like, what are we talking about? But so so you’re saying 30 to 40 percent of the costume characters are friends of Dorothy.
SPEAKER_00:
Well, at least in my time, yeah. Yeah, okay.
Gavin:
Disney’s very gay friendly, and we love that about them. But can tell us why, um, why what is the term friend of Goofy? Can you explain that?
SPEAKER_00:
Well, I mean, as part of being the character, um, you want to sort of keep that magic for the kids and the people in your life and the the just the general public, you know, you don’t want to just say, Oh, I was this, this, and this. I would I was these characters. You just want to say you’re the friend, you’re their best friend. Um, because really when you’re embodying that character, um they’re alive. And the you’re you, you, the person, sort of disappear and goofy becomes alive. And so, really, you’re goofy, you know, you’re your queen of hearts, you’re baloo, you’re the beast, you’re whatever, you know. And so um you just try to keep that magic for all the people in your life.
Gavin:
And you were absorbed in Disney magic for several years. Can you give us the bullet points of what was your trajectory throughout the magical kingdom?
SPEAKER_00:
Of course, of course. So um it starts with just being a kid, going to the parks when I was little, um, watching the mainstream electrical parade on the shoulders of my dad, um, sort of cliche, but um, it comes full circle when I in a in a moment when I tell you. Um, but just loved going to the parks. I’m originally from Texas, and so Florida was like a world away and just had the best time. And so um I graduated high school early, and so I was kind of like looking for something to do besides just going to college, and I was in college, and the counselor said, What do you love? And I said, Well, I love Disney. And uh, she said, Well, there’s a college program. So I got in the college program. I was 17 when I went to Florida.
Gavin:
Is it like the college program is like you’re taking biology and uh the history of Germany since 1945 at Disneyland or what?
SPEAKER_00:
No, you’re working for uh for them for really cheap, uh, but they put you in housing um and you sort of staff their restaurants, the rides, uh, the different things. And so I worked at Epcot. It’s an internship for low low-wage uh workers. Yes, but you’re getting the experience, and then also depending on where you live with them, um, I had the international roommates. So I had the roommates that worked at Epcot. So they were like Italian and French and Chinese, and so it was it was really cool. But um, so I went there at 17 and started uh at Epcot. And I worked at the pizza place that’s no longer there, and then I opened that little um cafe. It’s like a little uh it was called Fountain View. Um it was in front of that big fountain at Epcot. And it eventually it eventually became a Starbucks and now it’s gone and they tore it down.
David:
Um that tracks.
SPEAKER_00:
So that totally tracks. So then while I was there, I saw the characters and I was like, oh, I love seeing them when I was a kid. Um so then I went with a friend who was auditioning, and then I got to work uh that the next couple of summers I worked at the Disney MGM Studios, is what it was called at the time. Um, it’s now Hollywood Studios. Um so I did that, and then that led to Disneyland Paris, and I was in France for a year, and then while I was over there, I found out about Disney Cruise Line. So then I was the second cast on The Magic, which is their first ship, and then I was the first cast on The Wonder, which is their second ship.
David:
What was your audition to be a costume character like?
SPEAKER_00:
It was awful. Um, so I have no formal training. I was not a dancer, I had never danced. Um, I’m just really tall and skinny. And so um they didn’t really good looking.
Gavin:
So we fucking hate you.
SPEAKER_00:
So I did um so they did like uh like a dance routine that I completely bombed, and then they did like improv, which I actually could do. Um and so it just it just was one of those things, and I I was really good at talking to people, and so I found out like who the supervisors were, and I would just talk to them and just like go straight, go straight to the hires. Whatever. And so then um, and then I would, you know, get their phone numbers and I would keep following up, and then eventually they would feel sorry for me because I was in Texas, and they would like, you know, they would give me the job. And so it literally just one thing fell into the other because it was like I got that job, um, did the characters in Florida at the studios, and then while I was at the studios, um, got hooked up with the supervisor and she said, How can I help you? And I was like, I want to go to France. And so then she found out about the program, they do an exchange because um Epcot has those countries and they let the French people come over to work in it. So then they also let Americans go over there and work in France. Do they?
David:
Do you when you’re an American at Epcot in France, you just stand around and be like, no healthcare for anyone. We hate everybody. Racism is alive. It’s like, what do you how do you represent America at Epcot? I have no idea. We’re the best. We’re the strongest. We’re the number one. And I wonder if like at any point in your audition before you became a costume character, did they give you like the the character skins or whatever? I would just imagine these like back rooms of just sweaty, hanging. Oh yes.
Gavin:
As an actor, when you put on a costume, it can be like the final touch. You know, you might not be able to find your character, but then suddenly you’re feeling slick and you’re, I don’t know, tuxedo or your heels or whatever. I mean, I would imagine it would be a lot easier to audition to be a character if you had the character’s head on rather than just feeling kind of silly.
SPEAKER_00:
Totally, because you feel like a like an asswipe, you know, but um, because you’re just you’re having to like be outside of yourself. And you know, and so it was just, I mean, you’re already usually a big personality to work for Disney, um, but you’re still having to push yourself. And I found that I don’t want the attention as myself, but if you put me in the costume, then suddenly I could dance, suddenly I could be all those things because it was like a superpower. And so it just really um, it was really amazing. It was a really fun time, and then you also have that whole thing of you’re really not allowed to speak, and so your other senses get heightened. So you start to pick up on energy a lot with with people, and you can sort of feel when energy comes towards you because you’re you’re your your vision’s impaired, you’re not supposed to speak. Um, and so you really could you could really feel um when something was coming your way, either good or bad.
Gavin:
Wow, you had spidey senses when you were in your costume. So uh 50, maybe 51% of the reason you’re here is because you’re a dad too. Yeah. Will you will you tell us um about the spidey senses of your kids and how you became a dad, please?
SPEAKER_00:
So um after all the Disney stuff, I moved to New York City and started working on Broadway uh for a Broadway general management company. Um, because I was more into the business side of entertainment. Um, I was really just having fun working for Disney, but that wasn’t like what I like woke up every day saying, I have to perform. I that wasn’t me. Um, I just wanted to be in entertainment. So um worked in Broadway, went on a national tour so that I could learn more about the business. So I was the uh assistant, associate company manager, and our second stop, which was like our um opening city, was Dallas. And that’s where I met my now husband. Um he was working at the theater, and we literally turned a corner. I ran into him, and it was love at first sight for me.
David:
Um and for him, he was like who was this ugly tall skinny guy? I hate it.
SPEAKER_00:
It took him a little bit, but it’s so uh we just connected, and he was uh he was home from school um and so working at the theater, and we were both originally from Texas, but both lived on the East Coast. So I finished my tour, he finished his um schooling. But that second date that we had, we talked about kids. Um, because it’s something we both wanted, and so that’s really a deal breaker, I think, in a relationship is um is whether or not you want kids, and that’s for anybody.
David:
It certainly should be. There’s a lot of people who get married anyway thinking, I’ll change their mind, and then they’re gonna relationship.
SPEAKER_00:
No, yeah. No, it doesn’t work like that. Um, and it and if anything, kids just can drive a wedge and make it worse. Um, you have to be in a solid relationship. Yeah, I would say if you’re gonna do it as as two people, you know. So yeah, so we talked about kids, and then I have uh a sister that adopted internationally, and so we were kind of toying with that idea whether or not we would go the international route. Um, but we just kept hitting roadblocks, like um they wanted us, wanted one of us, or they would say, okay, only one of you can adopt. You have to swear and have a judge or a lawyer, whoever certify notarize that you’re straight, um, and all these kind of things. And we were just like, this isn’t this isn’t right. This doesn’t celebrate us as a couple. So we found um right, hold on.
Gavin:
Let’s pause, let’s pause there for just a second. It is astounding to me. I mean, I guess it shouldn’t be a surprise, but that they are so blatant saying, no, no, no, we don’t do the gaze. One of, but they weren’t like they didn’t just flat out refuse you, like as if some kind of Supreme Court decision had been handed down that they’re gonna they have the right to refuse. Instead, they’re like, Well, if you lie about it, go ahead.
SPEAKER_00:
Right. No, they they wanted our money. They they said we’ll get you a baby, but it’s like I don’t want to get it in a dishonest way because I I’m not a good liar, my ears turn red, um, I can’t take a cracker from Jason’s deli. I have to, you know, pay for the salad bar. It’s like we should play poker together. I’d like to play poker with you. So it’s just yeah, so I I needed I needed to go the path that celebrated us as a family because that’s what we were building. So it’s like if you’re starting from the go and they’re saying, No, you can’t be together, and if you travel together, you can’t even be in the same room, you have to pretend you’re friends. It’s like it was like nothing. This is this is my roommate who traveled overseas with me to pick up our baby. To pick up our baby, yeah.
David:
So and it’s like just a couple of straight dudes raising kids together, just hanging out. So cool. Yeah.
Gavin:
I don’t know why we’re clutching our pool pearls and crying when we meet our baby for the first time.
David:
We share a bed just for economy, honestly. Just to save the earth, honestly. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:
So yeah, so we we found this book um that Dan Savage wrote about his experience with open adoption. Yeah. The kid, yep.
Gavin:
So also a Broadway uh off-Broadway play, I believe, or maybe even musical.
SPEAKER_00:
Yeah, yeah. Well, so read the book, um, worked with that same exact agency, um, found out that the office manager at that agency was my mentor’s childhood best friend. So it just was like, okay, that all links up. We’re supposed to be there. We go there, we’re celebrated as a family, um, and we just started that process with open adoption. And so uh we were placed with our son in 2009. Um, and it was the week of Thanksgiving. And so it was last minute. We had to drop everything, get in the car, drive from Vegas up to Oregon. Um, and then we waited about a year or so after we had adopted him to see, you know, like if everything’s going great, hitting all those milestones. Then we would get back, they call it the pool, and so you can get back in the pool for another kid. And so secretly I was hoping for a little girl. Um, and we waited. So we waited two years for our son because the the way open adoption works, at least with this agency, is that the birth families pick you. Right. So you’re kind of in this pool of people. Um, and one of the things that kind of worked against us is that we were in Vegas.
Gavin:
And so these are they were like, no, no, no, these show girls, uh-uh, they actually we don’t trust them whatsoever.
SPEAKER_00:
So the agency is primarily in the Pacific Northwest, and so the whole open adoption model is that you form a relationship with the birth family, and then you’re having visits and you’re you’re seeing people. And so I think it was hard for maybe the birth families to wrap their heads around how are we going to see them if they’re 2,000 miles away.
Gavin:
Yeah, sure.
SPEAKER_00:
And so, so even so then it kept happening where we would have all these close calls where we would get the screening call and they would say, Okay, this baby’s been born, these are the issues. Are you do you want to be put into the you know that smaller pool to be considered? And we would always, almost always say yes, and then then it would end up that they would pick the lesbians.
David:
And so we were like damn it lesbians, like damn it, just like ruining everything.
SPEAKER_00:
So then we thought about we should go out and get Subarus and put on like put on like flannel and just change our look and see if they would pick us, you know. But yeah, um, it just kept happening, and then finally it was our turn, we got picked, and so then we knew that that how that process worked. So then we went back in the pool about a year later after we had our son, but then that wait turned into four years, and so um, but I think I was saying this to Gavin earlier. Um, when we talked, it’s like the kids really do pick you. Um, and so you just have to wait, you have to be patient. And and now, so then it happened, and we were picked, and it was last minute again, and it was um a little girl, and so I think the little girls were these babies or were these older kids?
David:
Like, what were the ages? Brand new, right out of the oven, fresh out of the box, still had that new baby smell, literally little goop on their face.
SPEAKER_00:
Both born on a Monday. We found out on the Tuesday that they that we were the ones, and we met them on Wednesdays, and they were two two days old. Amazing both stories.
David:
Did you get to did you get there in time to see the weird black, sticky shits that come out? No, we had to deal with the black sticks. Oh, good. I’m glad because that’s really to me the cornerstone of fatherhood is really having to deal with tar coming out of your child.
SPEAKER_00:
It’s like, what’s it called? It’s like mark, is it like marconium or something kind of? Marconium. It’s disgusting.
David:
It is disgusting, but I will say it doesn’t smell, but it is the the substance is so because there’s there’s no other poops like it in the for the rest of your life, at least so far. I have a four and two year old. So like I’ve only had that many poops, but just those first like four days of just tar coming out of your child, and you’re like, are they dying or are they trying to reglaze my asphalt? Like, what is happening here? What is this coming out of this child?
Gavin:
Well, it’s good that you had that full experience, and everything was um happy and healthy from the get-go.
SPEAKER_00:
Uh, pretty much, yeah. Our our daughter had to stay in the um, they call it the special care nursery. Um, she was born really early and they really couldn’t date her. And so they thought that it could be six to eight weeks, but um, little girls are just the strongest babies on earth. Totally. And she was a fighter, and she was out of there in 10 days.
David:
Um she was like, bitch, I have places to go. Can we speed this shit up? She’s like, I gotta get to Vegas, I gotta get in my nursery. She’s like, she’s like, I got a voucher at Hara’s for ten dollars I want to use real quick.
SPEAKER_00:
And she’s never stopped. She is still a force of nature, and she lights up every room and is just big, big, big personality. And we we adore her.
David:
And now you’re a gay dad.
SPEAKER_00:
Look at that. Yep. Oh, and that’s the thing. Like, that’s the thing I I wish I would have known is that when you have babies, at least this happened to us. So this was 2009, 2010, you know. Um, you come out every day. Every day. When you go out in public and you have an infant, you are outed every single day. And we would um, we would be, you know, we traveled a lot, so we’d be on airplanes or we’d be at restaurants, and people would just come up and they’d be like, You guys are doing so good with that baby. And it’s like you didn’t know if that was their way of saying, We see you and we acknowledge what you’re doing. Like it was, it never came from a place of judgment, but it was just we didn’t need that, we didn’t want that attention, but it just kept coming, and it was just like constant. Now that they’re older, nobody says anything.
David:
But it is, it is, it is an interesting, unique thing to our life, which is where like we have to constantly either come out or decide not to come out. We have to make that decision. We have a neighbor down the street, very nice old guy. And one day we were walking our kid, and we see him all the time, and it’s always like wave, wave, and he would always look at us just for an extra half second because you could see the wheels in his head turning, going, How what is and so we’ve had two babies now, and he’s and finally last year at some point we were just like stopped and talking, and he just looked at me, he looked at my husband, looked at me, looked at my husband, he looked at me, and then he went, So what are you guys, brothers or something? Like, and I was like, No, bro, this is my husband. He was like, Oh, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, because yeah, yeah, it’s fine, it’s fine, it’s fine, yeah, yeah, yeah. It’s fine, it’s fine. But I it it is a constant source of coming out, and it is super fucking annoying. But also, I feel like maybe sometimes the story you were telling about, like, oh, you guys are doing so good. I’ve gotten that a couple times, and I feel it’s a little judgmental. It’s a little like, oh, I didn’t know you could do college-level algebra. It’s like, yeah, just because I’m a gay dad doesn’t mean I don’t know how to be a dad.
SPEAKER_00:
We would get the um, so I’ve you’ve heard of mansplaining, and people talk about, oh, don’t mansplain that to me. So, so we experienced the opposite. We experienced the woman splaining. Um it would so it would happen like the the worst was on the plane, and Tilly, our daughter, she just did not enjoy being on a plane, um, at least as uh as like that zero to two because she really wanted her own space and she needed her own space. And so she was just like having a fit, and we were on, I want to say, it was like a you know, just on one of those long, like four-hour flights, and she was just crying and everything. So then these women just come to the come to our seats and they just like take her out of my arms because they’re gonna show me how to comfort my daughter. And they’re like, This is how you do it. And she, so then she like goes up to like mock 11, screaming, like, who are you people? Yeah, a strange girl grabbed me. And they’re like, Oh, you have to do this, this, and this. And so then I had to like get out of my seat, take her back, go to the back of the plane, and then really soothe her, you know. But I was like, it would happen every once in a while where we would be, you know, shown how to how to you know handle an event or a child.
David:
That’s a hundred percent happened to me. Has that happened to you, David?
Gavin:
Oh, absolutely. And I think I actually think it’s it comes from a place of uh generosity, I think, but boy does it get mistranslated.
David:
But I am be generous, but it also there is a sense in there of like there’s no woman here to really take. I was at a men having babies conference as a speaker, and my infant was crying, and I was patting him on the back to try to get him to burp because he’d just eaten. And one of the like what catering staff came up to me and she was like, she like rubbed his back or did something different. And I was like, I know you’re part of you is doing it generously, and part of you is being judgmental.
Gavin:
Thank you for the mom splaining. But I think that Benny, you um you were talking about positive affirmation an awful lot of the time, which is really great, and different from also I assumed you were gonna say how often people said, Oh, is it mom’s night off, or oh, are you doing the babysitting? And you think that we have to we uh we as gay dads also have to take another proactive stance and not only come out but also explain, no, this isn’t babysitting.
SPEAKER_00:
I’m a parent, so no, no, totally, and that I felt like that started more with the preschool and uh just going to school because then it’s every year you’re starting over with a new teacher and you’re having to explain your family dynamic. Um, and so then sometimes it’s kind of like you see like the wheels turning in their head, like, oh, okay, because you say, you know, our son has a dad and a papa, you know, and they’re just kind of like, oh, okay. Um, and so, and then another way to one thing that we did as a family is you know, you always get the family tree project, sure, which I always dreaded. Um, but so what we did is, or at least what we showed our kids is like we showed four trees like in an orchard, and each one of us is one of those trees. Oh, nice. And then there’s a basket with our last name on it, and all of our apples from our different trees are in that same basket. And so we were all picked together to be in the same family because we all come from different families, you know. That’s it.
David:
I would I want to do that, but I want it to be like a Costco shopping cart with like Kirk various Kirkland products in it. Yes, and the the Costco that that’s that that would really represent me, I think.
Gavin:
Or maybe, or maybe um maybe a vineyard of of grapes and the bottles of wine that follows. That would be Gaben.
David:
Look, has anything more perfectly described Gabin and I and I talk about Costco and you talk about wine? Yes, that is that’s it. I mean that’s that’s the dynamic.
Gavin:
So speaking of Costco and wine, let’s go back to Disney. So behind the closed doors, then is Disney the happiest place on earth?
SPEAKER_00:
Um, it can be. Um it can be, it can be, it is what you make of it. You know, it’s um I was I had drank the Kool-Aid, so I was all in. This was my childhood dream. Um, I was love and life. Um, but it it can grate on you. There’s days that you wake up and you don’t want to be magical and you don’t want to spread pixie dust, you know. Um, but they do a really good job of tapping into that nostalgia, you know, that you had as a as a kid. Um, and so but it’s hard, it’s you know, the Florida heat is no joke. And oh my god, how do you deal? How do you deal with those costumes in the heat and humidity? It’s beyond. I don’t even know like how we did it, but um, I mean, literally, we’d be in parades where the asphalt was melting under our feet. It was so hot.
David:
But I grew up, I grew up an hour south of there. I know exactly what you’re talking about.
SPEAKER_00:
It is and I was in I was in Texas, so I was used to the humidity. Yeah, but um, but still, there’s nothing like it whenever, and then you’re adding layers of padding and whatever else.
Gavin:
Did you have ice packs and fans on the inside of the helmets or anything?
SPEAKER_00:
No fans, but you could do like an ice collar thing. But the problem is that it would melt in you know less than five minutes, and then you’re just carrying around heavy water on your neck.
Gavin:
And so then it’s like, great, this is you know, this is how often would characters just pass out in the middle of the Main Street parade?
SPEAKER_00:
Um, I never saw any, but I would as soon as you because usually with those parades, they um, you know, you have a route that you have to go, and there’s once you go past the gates, you know, to leave, there’s a line painted on the ground because people can still see you. And so you can’t stop until you cross that line. And it’s it’s a good 30, 40 feet past, you know, it’s it’s a good distance, and you’re just like, I gotta make it, I gotta make it. And then you just sort of collapse once you get past the line. Yeah. Um, and then you’re getting things peeled off of you, and you just lay for like an hour to recover.
Gavin:
I mean, it’s too bad. You are definitely not allowed then to be like the friends of mini and the friends of Mickey in Times Square who stand around with their helmets under one arm smoking a cigarette.
SPEAKER_00:
No, we call those the the ghetto, ghetto Mickey, ghetto mini. That’s what I tell my kids. But um we see we see that in Times Square every day. No, we have it in Vegas too, because I’m like, that’s not the real mini. You know, it’s like, don’t look at them.
Gavin:
Now tell us um how uh give us a story from your time as a character where your spidey senses might have failed you and you got a little extra tap on the rear or cup in the front or punch in the gut or yeah, because kids are the kids do not respect boundaries.
David:
So I imagine you’ve also costed. Yeah.
Gavin:
Also they’re little. Like you can just have a little tiny three-year-old skull just rammed straight into your crotch, and you gotta stand up straight still.
SPEAKER_00:
It’s usually that, but it’s more the it’s more the teenagers who think they’re gonna be funny. And then it’s also some of the adults. You know, it’s like they see you as this giant plushed toy. Yeah. And so you can get manhandled and fondled and so. Sorry, sorry. I’m sorry. So it’s a little, I mean, it you definitely get to see human nature. Um, but I don’t know. There were times like I could just feel it coming, like, especially like in some of the the bigger characters, they think, oh, you know, Baloo really needs to be kicked between the legs, you know. And so you would feel it coming and you could just brace, you know, and kind of cross your legs so that you didn’t get hit in the balls.
David:
You know, so what’s worse, a little child who kicks you in the balls or a Disney adult?
SPEAKER_00:
Probably the adult, because you know they know you know they know. Better. But you know, I was pushed into trash cans.
SPEAKER_03:
Um God.
SPEAKER_00:
Because they’re just people, you know, they just, you know, they’re excited, and you’re you’re sort of famous for this, you know, this moment while you’re out there, and everybody sees you. And the characters are so cute, you know, sure. And they’re so inviting. But um, yeah, they’re just sometimes they just lose their minds. Um, and even like in Europe when I was there, it’s like you could see the different nationalities because they would all do different things, they’d all treat you different ways, you know. And so the Brits would always form a line, you know, they would see you and we got to get in line, you know. And then you’d have other countries that would just be like, I want my picture, and they just come in and they just barge in and they they grab you. And then you’d have like the Russians who would come over and stand and they would be so miserable, they’d take the picture and then they would smile. It’s like and then they would invade Ukraine. It was like, oh, that was fun. You know, we had fun. And it’s like, really? Because you didn’t look like you were having fun, you know. Interesting. So you just could then pick up on the different you know traits of people. But um, you know, Goofy has long ears, and so you don’t really see people they they like to jerk on them. And if you’re going one way and your ears go the other, it’s not a great feeling.
Gavin:
There’s an extra amount of sadness to think of Goofy or Tigger or the Queen of Hearts, which by the way, you mentioned earlier that you played the Queen of Hearts, which is awesome. Is it always is it genderless? Is it always about your size? Like a short man can be mini and a really tall woman can be goofy.
SPEAKER_00:
Yes. Yes. So whenever you whenever you sort of audition and all that stuff, um there is a chart, there’s like a you know, kind of like a measuring thing on the wall. Sure. So you can see who you’re friends with. Um and so I was still growing. So when I auditioned, I grew a little bit more. So then I I kind of grew into Goofy. Um and so yeah, so there’s sort of like a then a like a tranche of characters that you can be friends with based on those little things. So there are some middle grounds that you’re kind of just out of luck because you won’t fit.
Gavin:
Um I this also reminds me of a guy I once worked with a long time ago who worked in the Magic Kingdom. In a he was a kid of the kingdom or something, and somebody, a character uh might have like run into a door or something like that and busted their nose without the head on, without the head. And they like broke their nose, blood all over the place. And the person said, Give me my hat, give me my give me give me my headpiece really quick, because they wanted to be able to claim that they were injured on the job with their headpiece on and um be able to get away with that.
David:
Wait, can I tell a quick story that’s just like that? I was doing, I’m gonna, I’m gonna be as broad as or uh uh indistinguishable as possible when I describe this. I was doing a regional production of a show somewhere at some point, and we were at lunch during tech, and we were all trying to learn round off back handsprings, and we were outside of the theater um in this like grassy area, and I was helping this other actor in the show learn, and he was doing it and he was doing it great, we were getting better. And finally, he did one, he did it all by himself, and we’re like, Yay! And then it was about time to go. And I opened my big fucking fat mouth and I said, Why don’t you try one more? And he goes and he does it, and he breaks his elbow. He has no insurance, we’re not on the property, we don’t know what to do. So he sneaks into the theater, he gets in there, he he kind of hides, he waits until everybody’s in the theater, and then he just cries, ow! And then it goes, Oh, I was just rehearsing this choreography, and I broke my elbow because he needed the workers’ comparative. It totally fucking works. Nice, and I hope nobody does the math to figure out what that was, but that was yeah, I so I totally get that story.
SPEAKER_00:
I deal with workers’ comp now. That’s all I’m saying.
Gavin:
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. We’re talking to the other side, but we forget that Benny is now on management.
David:
Oh shit, narc, narc.
Gavin:
So I’ve seen the how about now bringing parenting then into Disney, I would imagine there’s an awful lot of lessons way back when you were but a wee child, uh, as a friend of Goofy or a friend of everybody, that you learned good parenting and bad parenting observing at Disney.
SPEAKER_00:
Yeah, I mean, you definitely see what not to do. I mean, I think people have this, um, it’s one of my tips for going to Disney, but uh, people have these expectations of what they think it’s gonna be with their family. And I really think you have to know your family, uh, what their limitations are and stuff, because people just get pushed to the brink. You know, if you’ve been planning this trip for years and you have this idea of what it’s gonna be for you, and then your kids start acting a fool, um you see parents just lose their minds, you know? It’s like you’re gonna hug Goofy and you’re gonna love it, you know. I’m getting this bell if it kills us. Exactly. And so it’s just you just kind of if you just want to, I don’t know, take a step back and make sure that your your kids are having a great time because if they’re having a great time, you’re having a great time. Um and so, and that’s something that I have to work on constantly because I’m the I’m the planner in the family, I do all the research, and I want to do everything. I want to open the park, I want to close it, and that’s just that’s not anyone else in my family. And so um, I have to then prep myself and know, okay, going into this, what are the things we’re gonna try to hit so that I manage myself, you know, because I don’t want to be Debbie Downer the whole time because we didn’t do everything I wanted to do. So um, you sometimes you have to take a step back as a parent and just know you know, know what your kids can do and how tall they are. Um because you because that was me as a kid, is I was super short. And that’s one of my first memories is going up to Space Mountain and being too short.
Gavin:
You were super short and looked really old when you were really young.
SPEAKER_00:
Yeah, Benjamin Button. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I remember aged in reverse. No, but I just remember crying at Space Mountain because I was too short. Um so it’s like, don’t do that to your kid. Do the research, know the heights, and don’t even bring him over there, you know?
Gavin:
I didn’t realize until speaking with you that there really are the little tunnels underground uh to get you to whiskey here, there. And are they nice, or is it just a concrete underground alleyway? Or do you feel like it’s also part of the happiest place on earth?
SPEAKER_00:
So I think it all stems back from, or at least from what I know, is that uh Disneyland, when they built Disneyland, they weren’t able to do anything like that. And so uh Walt was upset because he was all about theme and all about the different lands. And because there was no real backstage for them to disappear to, you would have Adventureland people walking through Frontierland, walking through fantasyland, all that kind of stuff. And he felt that that broke, you know, the set, it broke the experience because you don’t want to see a cowboy walking through Tomorrowland. So um, so with Disney World, because it was swampland, they were able to sort of build the first level. It’s really not a basement, it’s the first level. Ground level. Because otherwise they would be underwater. So they’re so it’s built at ground level, and then the the park actually sits on the second floor. And so when you go in, you’re on the second floor of you know Disney World. So every there’s this whole tunnel system underneath, and it’s to allow people to travel from the different lands and not walk through them. And so um, so yeah, so it’s it’s utility, it’s utility corridors. There’s there’s the the trash that runs above your your head and drops trash juice everywhere. Oh, nice, trash juice. Yeah, trash juice. It’s it’s wonderful. Uh, I think it might even be a candle that they sell.
David:
Um literally trash juice was also my nickname in college.
Gavin:
There’s a conveyor belt of trash being transported up above.
SPEAKER_00:
Giant, it’s like giant tubes. It’s like um, is it pneumatic? Is that the word? Sure. Pneumatic, yeah. It’s like it pulls, and so those there’s certain trash receptacles throughout the park that you they when they dump the trash in, it sucks it.
Gavin:
So if you as goofy, if a friend of goofy gets pushed into the trash, can there can they get a little like suckage going on there?
SPEAKER_00:
No, because those are like the ones I was pushed into were the they were just the ones that are out in the park. These are usually backstage, and they’re there’s something you have to cart that trash to.
Gavin:
Oh, got it. So there’s no risk of not just the baskets for the plebs out there. Well, I I’m gonna close this with a the very sad image of and yet wonderful image of you sitting in a trash can as uh a friend of Goofy, which uh both makes me happy and sad, but I think that you could probably write a musical about that someday and become, you know, be able to have a lifetime pass to Disney afford something like that. Um, Benny, thank you so very much for coming, sharing stories with us, letting us know how you’re making the world a better place uh through your parenthood and also, like we said, demeaning yourself by being on our stupid little podcast. Thank you. Thank you, Benny.
SPEAKER_00:
You’re welcome. Thank you.
David:
So my something great is so dad, it’s hurts. Like I’m finding myself just leaning into this whole like just do the neighborhood dad thing. And what I fell into this week was an app called Flight Tracker 24. And it’s one of these flight tracker apps, not for you personally to know, like, oh, did grandma land or not? It is like, what is in the air above me? Where are the planes? And you click on them, and it basically says, Oh, yeah, that plane that just flew over you left LAX at 2 p.m. and is going to Newark or whatever, and it shows you the path they flew, and you could see them dodging storms or whatever. And so we’re right underneath a flight path from Newark. So I literally will get up early in the morning, I get up at 5 30 in the morning, and I will go sit on my back porch. Uh-huh. I will go sit for your kids. I have to. It’s the only time of day where I don’t have somebody that needs something from me. So I will get up and have like a half hour to 45 minutes of just me with my coffee on the back porch.
Gavin:
That is some serious that you are giving some serious Gwynneth Paltrow vibes there. I this is.
David:
No, it’s it’s it I look like a monster. I look like a monster.
Gavin:
No, but I just mean like the overachieverness of it. That’s really impressive that you have the self-discipline to get up.
unknown:
Yeah.
Gavin:
I know it’s it’s just selfishness. Do you have Entamin donuts with it as well?
David:
Yes, I absolutely do. Um, but this app I am so obsessed with. My husband is absolutely exhausted by me because the second a plane will fly over, I’m like, oh yeah, yeah, that that left Memphis about two hours ago. They’re going to Teterborough. And he’s like, stop it. I don’t care. Now I know the sounds of different planes. I will know if it’s a UPS or a FedEx plane simply by the time. And oh, it’s it’s annoying. So anyway, if you’re into that, if you’re ready to really become full dad, Flight Tracker 24 is my something great this week.
Gavin:
You know, um, it’s funny that one, I also had an app that I was going to share this week that I was just introduced to by my kids because they found out about it at school because school has just started since we’re here in the middle of September, right? And um, but my It’s September 27th today. Didn’t you know that? I know my birthday was two days ago. So my uh my partner is actually obsessed with Flight Tracker 24, too. I have known about it, and he loves to be like, oh, that’s a UPS flight just took off, or you know, that’s FedEx, or that’s Delta Flight 177. It’s really fun. I love that shit. So believe it or not, honestly, my app is called Sharktivity. Are you aware of Sharktivity? I don’t know Sharktivity. You can monitor sharks that have been tracked, you know, tagged, uh, swimming in the ocean. And you can just be like, Well, let’s look what’s off of Cape Cod right now. Let’s look what’s off of Manhattan. Sharktivity.
David:
This is basically a flat tracker 24. Like, but it’s I can’t believe our seven crates are the are the same, basically. I mean, one’s sharks and one’s planes.
Gavin:
My kids came home. Uh, God bless the science teachers, they told them, uh, they told my daughter about that in uh and she came home and said we have to download Sharktivity. I’m like, I don’t know what this is, and they’re uh they’re I will be downloading it literally right now. There are sharks within 15 miles of me right now that the app just told me about. So that is um what we love. So that’s our show. If you have any comments, suggestions, or general compliments, you can email us at gatriarchspodcast at gmail.com.
David:
Or you can DM us on Instagram. We are at Gatriarchspodcast. On the internet, David is at DavidFM VaughnEverywhere, and Gavin is at Gavin Lodge on Shark Week.
Gavin:
Please leave us a glowing five-star review wherever you get your podcasts.
David:
Thanks, and we’ll track you next time on another episode of Gatriarchs.
SPEAKER_00:
So I talked about sitting on my dad’s shoulders um watching the mainstream electrical parade, and that was like my Disney moment. They ask you when you’re like when you go into, you know, um to work for them. A lot of times in that first um sort of situation, they do like something called traditions, and it’s where you start to learn the ways of the company. And they’ll a lot of times they’ll ask you as an icebreaker, what was your Disney moment? And so for me, that was my Disney moment when I knew I wanted to be a part of Disney was seeing the Main Street Electrical Parade and Goofy driving the train. You know, that that first, it’s like that first parade float. Um, and so that was just a really vivid memory for me. And so years later, I was in Paris, uh working at Disney Paris, and they had the Main Street Electrical Parade. And so they wouldn’t run it all the time, but they would run it, you know, on weekends or whatever. And so I started asking the different people, like, how can I train to you know be in that parade? And so they said, Oh, well, you have to do driver training, blah, blah, blah. Um, I said, Well, I really want to drive the goofy train. And they said, Well, that’s that’s only for like people who’ve been driving a long time. And they said, but we’ll get you trained. So then I trained driving the floats around the building, that kind of stuff. And I just kept pestering them, like, you don’t understand. This was my this is my childhood memory, you know, it’s like I really want to drive this, I want to drive the goofy train. And so, because you’re you’re goofy driving the train. So you’re you’re literally in the costume driving the train. But the thing is, is that behind you you’re carrying Mickey, Minnie, Donald. I mean, you have people, you know, that you’re responsible for, and it’s in the dark, you can’t really see, and you’re navigating a theme park. Yeah. Um, and so luckily I was very persuasive. And so, my final opportunity, it was like right before I left my contract. Um, they let me drive the goofy train. And so I did the parade, cried the whole way through it. Um and the part that made it special was that it’s the exact float that I saw as a four-year-old.
SPEAKER_03:
What?
SPEAKER_00:
Wow, it was the exact because they sent it from Florida to Paris. Wow. Wow. And so that was so then for me, it was a full circle moment of here’s this four-year-old kid who had these huge dreams, and now you know, I’m 21 getting to experience this, and it just and now that um I’ve lost my dad, it’s like it’s a it’s a it’s just something that just connects me to him forever, you know? Yeah, yeah, because he was part of that memory, and then I got to live my dreams and do it, and so so yeah, it was just it’s something that just reminds me that if you really, really want something, you can get it.