Full Transcript
Are we not recording?
Gavin:
Sorry. I’m sorry. It’s the fires. Blame the fires. Sorry. Let’s see how a genuine my laugh can come out again this time. And this is Gatriarchs.
David:
So, my favorite place in the world, as you know, the bus stop. And my son has befriended this little girl, and they play together. They sit in the bus together. It’s all friendly. And he’s like, I want to have a play date with her. We say, sure. We get the mom’s phone number. We’re trying to find times. My husband texts her, hey, um, you know, you why don’t you guys come over at, you know, uh four o’clock on Saturday for the play date? And the mom’s response was sure. I could use a few hours to go shopping. I’ll drop her off at four.
Gavin:
Wait, what?
unknown:
No.
David:
So I’m like, we both, he like shows me the phone and I’m like, wait, what? We’re babysitting this girl? No. I thought this was a play date. So wait.
Gavin:
And remind us, wait, Emmett is how old? Five. Okay. So we’re still in. I mean, he’s in kindergarten now, right? Yeah. Okay. Okay, okay, okay, okay. I have a lot of thoughts about this.
David:
But am I crazy? Like, does that sound great? No, I’m just like, to me, I’m so used to like the awkward, like the parents sit on the couch and like make small talk for an hour and a half. But like, oh, she was like basically like, oh yeah, I’ll just drop my daughter off at your house.
Gavin:
Isn’t that normal? Well, I don’t think so. This hasn’t happened to you before, right?
David:
You have done that for small play dates and they say, What can we bring? They bring bagels, we hang out, or whatever. Right. This was the first time. Now I will say what this is what I will give her. She showed up, and now this was right before Christmas. She showed up a bottle of wine for us, a gift for Emmett, a wrapped gift for our daughter, who is also and some like candy. So she came bearing gifts, but she definitely dropped those kids off or that kid off and then bounced for two hours.
Gavin:
Oh, in December, back when? Oh, okay. I mean, they’re definitely we haven’t talked about this before. I have so many fond memories of sitting around day drinking, Chardonnay with the ladies in um Yeah, because it was never there were a few times there were some dudes who did it. Um, and we would just hang out and make awkward small talk for a while. But also, that’s where you’re absolutely manipulating who you want your kids to be friends with, because you’re like, I’m not gonna sit around with your the kids’ lame parents. So you foster the friendships with the cool parents. Yeah. I would say though that by first grade, finally, is where we were like, okay, Julia’s gonna walk home with uh Ellison and they’re and no, no, no, no, please, and you do not need to come over because this is where I actually get some stuff done. I can vacuum the house and stuff like that.
David:
So maybe you did a transition thing for me. Maybe I’m used to the baby play dates, and now this is a car kid blade date.
Gavin:
Kindergarten feels a little young for I mean, you’re still like pissing yourself and might need a nap. And and and then there’s the kids as well. But I think kindergarten it, I you know what, you might need to make peace with leaning into my new normal saying this might you’re you’re coming to a new normal, yeah. Wow.
David:
Look, look, look, look, baby, little babies growing up. Um, and little podcast is growing up because we look at us. We we asked you all uh to do like a little mailbag episode, and you all came through. You came through, y’all. Listener, and listener, thank you so much. And um, I’m not going to just do them all in one episode because this is free content for us. So we’re gonna spread them out. And today I want to uh talk about two things. We got uh two messages from you, lovely listener, and uh some topics you guys wanted to hear us talk about. So the first one is from Daniel. Uh Daniel is expecting a girl. Very excited for you, Daniel. Right on, Daniel. And Daniel was like, why don’t you guys talk a little bit about the myths of raising daughters? You and I both have daughters. Yeah, you have an older uh preteen daughter, I have a nightmare two-year-old daughter, and uh, although she’ll be three by the time this comes out. Um, and so what are some common myths about raising daughters that are and aren’t true?
Gavin:
I mean, so often we tell ourselves stories to validate the feelings we have. And so often people say, what don’t they say something like, um, daughters are easy little kids and then nightmares harder as teens, and then it flips and whatnot. I mean, I think so often it’s those are just stories we’re telling ourselves, and maybe I’m telling me myself that story to not want to fall into traps. But I do have to say, okay, my first thought is so often I think other people who don’t understand gay parenthood think, well, how on earth can a man, two men, raise a daughter? They don’t understand hormones, they don’t understand the the um biology, they don’t understand the feelings, they don’t understand the social dynamics. You know what? It’s all bullshit. Uh Daniel, you’re gonna be just as good a dad to your daughter as you would to a son, as a mother to a person. And just as bad.
David:
Honestly, Daniel.
Gavin:
And you’re gonna be terrible just as much because that is, if nothing else, parenting is completely unpredictable and you can’t get into any um comfort whatsoever. So I mean, think I think the main myth is um you’re gonna figure it out and you’re gonna be fine and you’re gonna be a great dad. Is that the other thing a cop out?
David:
No, but the other thing I I want to bring up is um when we had our military dads a hundred episodes ago, James and Will, um, we talked about this a little bit, and uh, but one for when I knew I was having a daughter, I was immediately panicked about vaginas. And I’m not afraid of vaginas. I’ve touched one or two in my life, but I was so afraid that I wouldn’t know because I had already had a boy, I have a penis, he has a penis. Like it was like, okay, we got that. There’s no surprises here. It was all of a sudden like I had to tend to this innocent child, and I was so afraid of a girl’s vagina. I don’t know why. I was just afraid of what would happen. And I I worked myself up over it and I was doing all this research, but it all felt more scary. And then I’m I I I and James and Will attested to this. Once you have them, it’s like two diaper changes later, you’re like, okay, I got this. Like you don’t even think about it. Now, I did have to have some really uncomfortable conversations with our pediatrician about when I’m wiping the diarrhea from her vagina. Yeah, how far in do I clean? You know, there you have these like really strange, awkward conversations, but it the the myth that um it is scary and oh god, a vagina, that stuff goes away so fast in a way that you’re wearing it out. You do, but also it’s just not scary. It’s just it’s just an innie instead of an outie.
Gavin:
Yeah, we’re totally adaptable and it’s gonna be fine. And um, and also knowing that uh you can work yourself up into a tizzy about say hormones and emotions and social dynamics, which I’m dealing with an awful lot of, you know, teen girl um social dynamics right now. And it’s I don’t know, I don’t walk around saying, I don’t understand. I’m a I’m a man, so I don’t get it. You just like I don’t you just roll with it and try to have a good sense of humor. I don’t know. It seems like And you’re barely a man.
David:
I mean, you’re you’re like you’re on paper legally a man, but my God, Gavin. Um and also, you know, like you said, like the whole like girls are easier as babies, but harder as teen or whatever. It’s just it it’s never true and until it is, and then you say, Oh, it’s because of that. My my son was really, really fucking easy, and my daughter is prior to us recording, I was just complaining about this. So, so challenging in so many ways. And uh it’s hard to rely on, like, oh, she should be better because she’s a girl and girls, and also like who who gets to wear the princess dress and who’s throwing the sand in the truck, like that shit switches day to day between the girls and the boys. So, like uh again, Daniel, we’re excited that you’re having a girl. All I can say is you’re gonna worry, you’re not gonna listen to us. Please never listen to us. No, but please don’t you will soon, very quickly, as soon as you’re holding your daughter, day two in the hospital, you’re like, I got this. Yeah. And you will, you’ll have it.
Gavin:
So moving on, we got another piece of international mail because um Do you remember international mail?
David:
Do you remember that catalog? That was now looking back, that was like my first spatial material. It was absolutely that. Yeah.
Gavin:
Between that, the Victoria’s Secret catalog, the um Fredericks of Hollywood um catalog, and international mail. Now, did you get international mail? Like, or is that in from the early 90s? Isn’t it?
David:
No, it was like, it was like, yeah, it was like early to mid-90s, and like for those of you out there, a magazine with pieces of paper connected on one end. Anyway, there was an underwear magazine called International Mail, but we all knew what the fuck they were doing. Yeah. It was like sheer fabric closure of these men’s crotches, and all you just saw were dicks. Um, but somehow they they mailed it to your parents.
Gavin:
So our so our international mail is Lou. Lou from Australia. He has a four-year-old, and he wants to know. I can’t even read this question.
David:
You can’t even read this question. Do it.
Gavin:
It’s impossible. When does your child start listening or acknowledging you again?
David:
Lou, we don’t mean to laugh at you. We but we are laughing at you. Uh listen, I don’t know because you have a four-year-old, I have just barely a five-year-old. So I’m only, you know, 11 months ahead of you. But so far, not yet.
unknown:
No.
Gavin:
And I have a 13-year-old, and so far, not yet. Not yet. This immediately makes me think about how she is so steamrolling past us. Not she listens, but she’s arguing past us and being like, no, you can’t. No, you can’t. Wait, can I have it back? Can I have it back? When can I have it back? She is just uh anyway. I mean, Lou, thank you for that$64 million question. We love you. This is parenting, baby. So just pour some of that savvy B you have down there from New Zealand and buckle up because no, um, she’s he or she, they are not listening to you anytime soon. Sorry about it. Also does remind me that these are universal questions that usually don’t have answers and welcome to parenting because everybody is asking these things and everybody feels lost, and everybody wonders when is their fucking kid gonna listen to them and is this never gonna happen. So the good news is, Lou and even Daniel, you’re not alone. We all have the same worries, okay? Welcome, guys.
unknown:
Welcome.
Gavin:
So um I have a little dad hack of the week uh that’s just a simple little thing that sometimes I think so often, I think to myself, damn it, why didn’t I think about this before? And I just need to prepare uh ahead of time, which I never, ever, never ever do. I am I’m an Eagle Scout, David. I don’t know if that means anything to you, or you know what that means. It means that I’m supposed to have I was a weeblos. Oh, you were well, you know, the motto is or is it the slogan? Oh, geez, I can never remember. I think it’s the motto is just be prepared. And I’m like, I’m I am prepared to just make it work. And I can improvise my way out of anything, but I’m rarely, if ever, um um prepared in advance. But I will say a nice little dad hack is um always have a book in the car. Always, always, always, always leave a book in the car um to just be the quick reference for um when the kids need to be distracted or whatever, or like distract them from their phones or whatever. But just always, always, always leave a book in the car. Do you have books in the car just in case?
David:
Absolutely. It’s exactly for for the reason you’re saying we have one book and each other sides because inevitably they’re annoyed and it’s it it’s a book they don’t see often, and then they’ll grab it and look at it. Yeah.
Gavin:
Yeah. Good call. Yeah. And uh, when you can think about it, switch them out, but you know, have a couple in the car. That’s a good dad hack. So, anyway, I know you don’t like diving into the gay news in the world because boy, the world is just a big old dumpster fire right now. Ooh, is that the word I should have used? Anyway, but I do want to revisit an old thing, an old theme that we have visited several times. Did you know that McDonald’s is the latest corporation to fall to the anti-DEI movement? And that they have now joined, they have joined Home Depot and Ford and all of the other companies that what’s his name? Like Jack Starbuck or something, has essentially been waging this um conservative war across the American landscape, corporate landscape, to make people to make institutions drop their DEI um priorities, which is astounding, right? But do you know what might be even more astounding for you and your little gay ass is gonna be so happy about? What? Costco said, uh-uh, conservative right, and their corporate board of directors have said, no, we are keeping our DEI priorities within our corporation.
David:
Oh, thank God. I thought you were gonna take Costco away from me, and I don’t know if I was gonna be able to do that. Nope. If that’s the best gift you’ve ever given me.
Gavin:
I took Costco from you, wrapped it up in a shiny new package, and handed it back to you.
David:
You re-gifted it to me, and you know what? I’ll take it. I I I love that. Anyone who knows me knows I go to Costco twice a week. I’m obsessed with it. But also, you could have taken that away from me. I would have stopped going to Costco if there were being dicks, but oh my god, this is such great news. Honestly, we only have America for five more days, so it’s not like you don’t even mean it’s like any of this matters, but that’s that’s wonderful. That’s wonderful gay news.
Gavin:
But you know what’s just as wonderful? What? Our top three list. Gatriarchs, top three list, three, two, one. So this week is my list. Uh, I suggested I want to hear the top three New Year’s resolutions that you’ve already given up on. Have you given some thought? Do you feel like it? This is a top three to make you feel like a loser or a terrible person.
David:
Which two Absolutely. Which you do, which you do often for me, which is really nice. No, but the saddest part of this is when when you gave this to me, it was so easy. This I had I had 20. I had 20 things. So no.
Gavin:
Well, you can either talk really quickly or just narrow it down. For me, number three, going to bed at 10:30. Uh, yeah, I I just I do not like getting up in the wor in the morning. And um, I’m not an early morning person. And I know, yes, sometimes I feel a lot better when I am up at like 5:30, like I need to be. But um, I just cannot go to bed before 11. It’s just, it’s just anathema to my being. So, number two, choosing my battles with my children. I really did on January 1st. I thought, I this is my year. I’m going to just be more Zen. I’ve been meditating thanks to Meditation for Assholes, thanks to that asshole who was on our show a long time ago. Kennedy. Wasn’t his last name, Kennedy? Anyway, that sounds right. Uh, so yeah, choosing my battles. I’m still choosing too many battles. And um yeah, uh, I have utterly failed at that. Number one is something that I didn’t uh think I was doing uh overtly, but I said on the fourth of on January 1st, I’m gonna stop doing this, and that is voicing my disappointment with my partner when I go, okay. What are you saying to me? And I just turned the most passive aggressive, I just I shit on the thought that’s coming out of his mind. And instead of going, okay, or I could just choose to be kind or whatever, and I go, okay. Just dripping with judgment. Well, just the other day, so January 7th or so, for the very first time, he actually acknowledged and said, Can you please not do that to me? It makes me feel terrible. I’m like, oops, I didn’t realize this was so apparent.
David:
So Gavin Lodge, killing 2025 already, just doing it. Oh my god. How are you killing 2025 as the asshole that you are? Oh my god. Well, we have some crossover. And number three, not yelling at my kids right away.
SPEAKER_02:
Well, yeah.
David:
Like when I’m like, hey, go do this, and they say no, I go from zero to the incredible Hulk. I don’t have any sort of honey, listen to what I’m saying, or honey, blah, blah, blah, blah. I I just and I was like, no, this year, you can’t just go to anger. You could, you, you’ve got, these are children. Look at their hands, look at their tiny little hands. Nope, I’ve started yelling at my kids right away. Uh, number two, um, we have a like a little thing at the foot of our bed, and it is where all of my clothes go to die. And it that pile grows and grows, and it’s clean clothes that I’m not ready to put away yet. You know, your jeans or maybe a hoodie or whatever. It has grown tight. You know how like if you have like a big pile of mulch and it starts to get hot because there’s this like biochemical reaction that’s starting to happen into that is happening to this giant. And my poor husband is always like, Are you gonna put the Christmas sweaters away? And I’m like, Yeah, I’ll get to it. This pile is growing and growing, growing. So not putting my clothes away.
Gavin:
It isn’t your chair drobe, right? Like the things that you wore for four hours, and you think, I don’t need to put that in the laundry yet. So I’ll just leave it. It is that’s the chair.
David:
It is that, but it’s that with all the things, and it’s just this little area, and it’s grown high. Yeah. I understand. Um uh and number one, the resolution that we have already bailed on bi-weekly versus weekly shows. We’re still doing bi-weekly, guys. We said we’d come back in the new year with one episode a week, and you know what? We still can’t do it. We don’t have the infrastructure, we don’t have the bandwidth, as they say. Yeah, so we are still bi-weekly, so we have gone back on that promise to you, listener. Uh, what is next week? That is oh, it’s me. I that’s my question for you. What is next week? All right, I want to do something really, really, really hard. Uh these are the top three Disney songs.
Gavin:
Okay. I already know. That’s gonna be hard. And it’s a fan of the number one. Okay. Okay, let’s do it. Top three. So today we’re joined by someone who not only is way too smart for the gatriarchs, but she’s also a mother, an attorney waging the good fight largely for queer parents, a children’s book author, and also from Ohio, which I’m pretty sure is a first here on Gatriarchs. Welcome to our latest favorite honorary gatriarch, Rachel Loftspring. Thank you, Rachel, for joining us.
SPEAKER_04:
Well, thank you for having me. Oh, I love that I’m honorary. That makes me so happy. Definitely.
David:
Yeah, we’ll sorry. We’ll send you a plastic trophy in the mail. Please do.
SPEAKER_04:
I’ll set it up in my office.
Gavin:
So uh tell us, how have your kids already driven you bonkers today?
SPEAKER_04:
Well, it’s morning, so we’ve already really hit that bonkers level. You know, school day bonkers is the real deal. There’s so many things that have to happen between like wake up and walking into the school door. Yes. And I don’t know what it was today, but like nobody wanted to do their things, everybody wanted to bicker. And uh, I was a little bonkers, but we got there because school starts at a certain time and they gotta be there for it.
David:
And it’s amazing, right, as a mom or a parent, that like they have been doing the same thing for literal years. And yes. Every day, it’s a complete fucking shock to them that they have to put their shoes on.
SPEAKER_04:
And they always ask the same questions, and I’m like, we even discuss this. I’m like, we don’t do this. You ask me this every day, and yet we still don’t do it. I told you you guys know that Einstein quote that’s like the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.
David:
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:
I started telling them that they don’t care.
David:
They don’t help. No, they’re like, who’s that old dude? Who cares about it? Right, yeah. What?
SPEAKER_04:
Who?
Gavin:
And yet also, yeah, I’m it’s so it’s reflecting. It’s refreshing, of course, for you to have these complaints that we all have about like how on earth am I have waging the same war every single day? Because frankly, Rachel, you’re a guru of showing us how to how to do parenting right. You’ve written a book about this is what we do in our family, this is what works, what all kids should be doing. And yet at the same time, it’s just like it’s always a shit show for all of us. It’s not working.
SPEAKER_04:
Yeah, and I think like any parenting person who’s like, my kids are perfect and we have a perfect experience is a liar. It is a practice. Parenting is a practice.
David:
Yeah. I always say, like, when people are like, you know, they’re like, you have that one object, that one thing, that one trick, that one whatever that you’re like, this is my secret weapon. It’s amazing. And you’re like, you give it to the parents behind you. You’re like, here’s my secret. And I always tell everyone everyone has that little thing that they’re like, this worked perfectly for my kid. It will never work for your kid. It just won’t, right? And never will.
SPEAKER_04:
Or like, like past success is not a guarantee of future success.
Gavin:
Uh-huh. No.
SPEAKER_04:
Totally.
Gavin:
Very well said. So, Rachel, how do your kids keep you going constantly? What are their days occupied with?
SPEAKER_04:
So I have a girl and a boy. We call them the girl one and the boy one. Um and the boy one loves soccer. He loves playing soccer, watching soccer, video games with soccer, jerseys that are from soccer, anything soccer, like that is his jam. And so we are in the car all the time. Soccer. I am a soccer mom. Um, which I don’t think I signed up for, but here I am. Um my daughter is completely opposite. She’s like the musician, bookworm, like creative. So it’s a lot of fun, right? Like it’s a logistical nightmare, and it’s really cool seeing them find these things that they love and experiencing it through their eyes. Um, or like having somebody who’s good at soccer. Because for me, when I played soccer, I was the kid who was like, oh my God, this girl’s like really big. They can have the ball. So like it’s kind of fun being like, oh yeah, my kid’s good.
David:
It is fun to watch people in general. I guess your kids too, but like people in general who are good at things. Yeah. Right? Like just what? Like it’s the it’s the reason like I like watching Project Runway. I have no desire to be in fashion or to sew anything, but I love watching people really good at things. And I’m so excited for my kids to be good at they’re not good at anything right now, except annoying me. But like eventually, when they get good at stuff, I’m actually really excited to like watch people good at stuff do stuff.
SPEAKER_04:
Right. And don’t you wonder, like, how did they learn how to do that sewing like that? Like very true.
Gavin:
Not from us. If it didn’t, it I mean, let me tell you, my kid is actually a soccer superstar, and I can tell you he did not get those skills from me or my partner, that’s for sure. People say to us, Do you realize how good he is? And we’re like, no, we literally don’t know what’s going on. They’re just chasing a ball around this the field.
David:
So Gavin is drunk in tap shoes, and they’re like, Where did he get it from? And he’s like, Not me, babe.
SPEAKER_04:
I love that. I love that.
Gavin:
So, Rachel, you wrote a book called Mila the Maker and the 200-piece puzzle. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:
Did I get the Oh, Jigsaw puzzle? Yes.
Gavin:
And the jigsaw. We’re gonna count it. I really was just looking at it. I basically was reading it, but I was making eye contact with you here in the Zoom screen. But um, where do you find the inspiration for this book?
SPEAKER_04:
So my kids, um uh, you know, when we talk about like passing that idea back behind us, like for me, when I was thinking about like, all right, what is it that I’m going to do or teach my kids? Like, I realize one of the greatest life lessons is I can teach myself, my kids, how to manage their emotions, myself too. Um, because kids have big emotions, and I don’t want them to feel like they shouldn’t have those emotions. What I want them to realize, like, how do we use those emotions to understand ourselves and to figure out the next best step? And so I wrote this book as a way to share with others what works for our family, which is essentially like a three-step thing, right? Like they’re having overwhelming feelings. The first thing we need to do is we need to just like stop. No good’s gonna come from this, right? Like, we need to stop, we need to pause, we need to breathe. And once we have that pause, once we kind of like take the just like rising to nuclear energy out of the room, we’re able to bring it back down and we’re able to sit with it. And then we let the emotions come and wash over us and like really feel the feels. And at that point, we can start asking just objective questions. You know, what’s going on? Why could I be feeling this way? Does it really have something to do with what’s in front of me, or did something happen two hours ago that I’m still upset about? And then once we kind of get a realization of what’s going on, then we can figure out the next best step. And as opposed to being reactionary and kind of like just, you know, knee-jerk reaction to something that’s going on, we can be thoughtful in the actions that we then take and have a plan essentially for how we are going to figure this out.
David:
I don’t think non-parent, we have a lot of non-parent listeners, and we I don’t think non-parent listeners understand how magically kids can take a relatively calm, sane person and bring them to the point of just like fury in the tiniest second. We had our guest last week uh or two weeks ago was uh a therapist named Brian Spatolnik, and he was he’s not a parent, but he was saying I had to you know babysite my niece or nephew, and they did something really shitty, and he goes, I couldn’t believe how I went from zero to rage in a second. He’s like, How did how do they how do you guys do that? I was like, Yeah, this is literally our day-to-day. It’s like you go to these huge rage places and you’re like, okay, how do I come down from this without getting CPS knocking on my door?
Gavin:
Basically, David needs the adult version of this book and how to manage his emotions, frankly.
SPEAKER_04:
I do too.
Gavin:
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:
Right? Like, it is it is hard. Like, or even like when the kids are coming home from school and you know you’ve got incoming chaos, like, I have to take a break. Like, I have to take a moment. If they come in and I’m like trying to get work done or whatever the case may be, like, I’m not good.
David:
You have to think about like what you’re mad at. My husband and I try to remind each other of this when we can feel each other going crazy. It’s like, remember, David, you’re feeling fury over a straw, right? You’re you’re like, okay, you’re right. It’s a straw, calm down, David. But something about that straw, ha, literally broke my back. So I totally get it. But then you have a child, right, who doesn’t have the kind of thoughtfulness. They just know they’re feeling this fucking fury and they don’t know what to do with it.
SPEAKER_04:
Or like sometimes, like I mentioned my kids bicker, like they don’t even know what they’re fighting about. Yeah, they’re just mad. And they like we finally calmed down. I’m like, what was that about?
Gavin:
They’re like, and and guess what? Here, as the person with the older kids in the room, uh, just you wait, it gets even more illogical. David is shaking his head. It gets even more illogical. I f I I yes, I fight with my 13-year-old, and hopefully, occasionally I’m the adult in the room, occasionally where I’m like, this is A, not worth it, B, what are we fighting over? This is absurd. Um, but there will be times that you know we kind of get our emotions out, hopefully go through a three-step process to not hate each other afterwards. And then we’re able to reflect and be like, what the what was the hell? What the hell was that about? And my daughter’s now able to say, I don’t know, I was just really tired. And you’re like, well, that shows awareness, self-awareness.
SPEAKER_02:
That’s awesome.
David:
Gavin, you had also said a couple episodes ago about you were talking about how your daughter will forget things. The will kind of be over things technically. And you’re just like mulling it over. I’m still, yeah. Yeah, you’re still chewing on it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Gavin:
So, Rachel, I’m curious, um, where did you realize that this was a book worthy of getting out there? Is it that if I mean partly, was it you like, I’ve always wanted to write a children’s book and I I have this literary side to me, or on the playground, were you realizing that other parents didn’t know how to deal with big emotions and you thought, I’m gonna put this out there to help make the world a better place?
SPEAKER_04:
Yeah, I think there’s kind of two answers to that. I think, first of all, like many attorneys would tell you they actually want to be writers. And so, like, I can write a little naturally. Um, I wrote it and it took me like this process has been five years because I work full-time and kids and life and all the things. So it’s been like step by step by step. But I wrote this book and I was like, uh, that doesn’t suck. Um, and so I was like, I wonder if, and so it was just kind of like step by step. I wonder if I do this, I wonder if I could do that. And so I don’t want to say just kind of happened because it didn’t magically happen. Like it was a lot of work, but at every step I was like, all right, well, this works out, I’ll take it to the next step. And it was a slow process, but each step worked out, and so I just kept on going down the path until it was published in August. And you know, the amazing thing about writing a book is that I don’t want to say writing it is the easiest part because that’s also really hard. Um, and this book rhymes, which is also hard, but like there’s so many more things that go into writing a book than just staring at a computer screen and typing on a keyboard. It’s amazing. So um it’s been a huge learning experience. I’ve really enjoyed it. Um, and it’s been fun to be able to come on and talk to folks like you about it. You know um and to get it out there into folks’ hands.
David:
Can you believe she’s happy to be here of all places in the bottom of the dumpster? The dumpster fire. This is the dumpster fire that is gay dads.
SPEAKER_04:
This is such a fun thing to do. So, yes, I love the bottom of the dumpster, but I’m gonna come join us and the raccoons. Join us.
Gavin:
So, speaking of the bottom of the dumpster, um, I do feel like this is the way where this transition’s going. Well, you know where this not immediately to being an attorney, but we’ll get there.
SPEAKER_04:
Wow, J Wow.
Gavin:
We did, we did um a few months ago, as we’re uh airing this on January 15th. Um a few months ago, um, we went through a big societal change, and a few days we’re going to go through a big societal change. And basically, I want to know for those of us still reeling with the new presidential administration, what is the three-step process there? Because so far, mine is just cry a lot, drink a lot, and wake up and think, um, I think I just am gonna do something um that’s self-serving and uh cocooning myself in um in comfort right now. Would that work, would you say?
SPEAKER_04:
Yeah, you know, I talked to my therapist about this.
Gavin:
Okay.
SPEAKER_04:
Um because this is this is a serious question, like wrapped up in a joke, right? Because like this is so serious. And also how we prepare ourselves emotionally, legally for this is so serious. And, you know, on my end, at 5 30 a.m. the day after the election, I started getting phone calls. And uh, you know, these are phone calls from the LGBTQ community, and they are concerned about their families, about protection of their families and parental rights. And so um, you know, making sure that we’re doing the things that we can do to best protect our families with the information that we know right now, which is not unfortunately subject to change. Yeah. And, you know, I think um it doesn’t help us to like do the drinking, do the crying, but then like get yourself back up because there’s gonna be work to be done, right? And and we have to do that. And we can only control what we can control. Um, but like we’re not helpless. We have to keep fighting the fight. And I think one of the things that’s so hard is that it feels like we’ve been fighting the fight and we were like doing so well, and like this isn’t even two steps backwards. It’s just like we’re turning around and going the other way.
Gavin:
It’s such an exhaustive, it’s an exhaustive feeling of, oh geez, we gotta do this again.
David:
But it’s a very common, queer story. Like as a true gay man who is who’s barely 25, like in my 25 years of being here, it you know, it it it it feels like we’ve we’re constantly fighting. And some days the hill is is the incline is very light, and some days it feels straight up and down. But it’s just these moments where you’re just like, I have to climb another fucking hill. We already climbed this hill.
SPEAKER_03:
Yeah.
David:
Um, it and it just I I think that’s part of my frustration with all this, is like these big, big regressions, feel exhausting, and then I like I kind of almost pre-give up because I don’t have the energy. And what you’re saying, which is totally true, is like you you have to have your fi fees, and then you have got to wake up and fucking start fighting because if you just bow down, that’s the whole point of this. That’s the whole reason they’re doing all of this.
SPEAKER_04:
Yeah. And I think something that’s so helpful and and and what you guys are doing is like finding community, making community. Like you just because this happened, just because of this election, and enough people got this president in, doesn’t mean that there aren’t millions and millions and millions of people who think differently. And so staying connected to that, I think, is key for us emotionally as well.
David:
I think it’s been important for me to hear. Um, I usually would pop in with like a dick joke here, but I have more serious stuff to talk about. But like this is very uncharacteristic. I know, I know. But we often think about like, oh my God, more than half the country feels X. No. There’s like what 25% of eligible voters voted. So it’s not half the country. It’s half of the voting block. And so that has uh it may be just a made-up thing in my head, but that has helped me a little bit not to feel so surrounded by the enemy.
Gavin:
Insert and then joke.
SPEAKER_02:
Yeah, yeah.
Gavin:
Well, the joke being uh coming back to Trump, I am curious. Um there are so many unknowns and everything depends. I know that attorneys um uh have to so often say, well, it depends. But are there are there concrete worries that you have right now about changes to come? Or would your advice be uh let’s just girt ourselves and and and stay calm and know that it’s a long fight, but don’t panic right now? What’s your advice?
SPEAKER_04:
It depends. Um you know they teach us that like we have like our first class on law school one-on-one, and they’re like, just learn, it depends, everything else will be fine after that. Um let me start with the disclaimer, which is like this is informational purposes, not legal advice. Sure. And the states vary dramatically state by state. So like I I see this in different groups, right? I think unfortunately the trans community is in the crosshairs right now.
SPEAKER_02:
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:
Um, and uh what I’m hearing a lot of folks say is like get name changes done, get gender markers done, like get your passport even if you’re not going anywhere, those kinds of things. Um, by the time this airs, with you know, who who knows what executive orders or changes might be made. Um, but like that kind of stuff. Um, when we think about things like parentage and thinking about like what kind of documentation do we have? And a lot of that base is based on like how a family was built. Um, was it through surrogacy? Was it through adoption? Was it through fostering? So um, you know, that’s gonna be really person-specific. I do a lot of work with surrogacy, and so we get court orders. And so, like um in in the queer community, when I have gay dads, like they have to go to court to get a court order because when a woman delivers, she’s presumed to be the mom. We have to rebut that presumption, and her spouse is presumed to be the other parent, so we’re telling the court no, the dads are the dads. For same-sex female couples, like they don’t have to walk into the hospital with a court order because the mom is presumed to be the mom under a burger fell, which is the marriage equality case. Her spouse is presumed to be the other parent, so both of them go in the birth certificate, but that’s not a court order. So then, should they get an adoption decree? Should they get a court order? There’s there’s a lot of discussion about, you know, this, and also you layer on what’s going on in the state and where do they live. So there’s it gets it, it really is something that folks should like speak to an attorney about. Um, we’re also thinking about like marriage equality. The concern here goes back to Dobbs. So Dobbs is the decision that overturned Roe v. Wade. And in the concurrence to Dobbs, Justice Clarence Thomas called into question a Burgefell. He basically said, Well, this is the kind of thing that could be overturned because of the way the decision was made. And so the alarm bells went off then. Um, and I think the alarm bells are going off now because of what’s happened. And nobody has a crystal ball, but you know, the thought is kind of like, well, we’ve legalized gay marriage, like we have marriage equality. How are you gonna go taste vaccines on those? Um and like I don’t know how you would do that, but the depths of creativity, no, no, no, no, no bottom. Um, but like the thought is like that is likely okay, and or we would just have so much runway in advance of that. Um, you know, so it’s deep sigh. It’s it’s a lot that we don’t know, it’s a lot we’re concerned about, and also we don’t want to make rash decisions, right? Like you want to talk to somebody.
David:
Yeah, and I will say, like, for for you in that position, as being the person a lot of people are talking to, I want to just say a collective, I’m sure Gavin agrees the same with me on this. Thank you for having to take a lot of panicked, maybe crazy, maybe incoherent phone calls and being a voice of reason and just somebody to point this stuff at, because I’m sure it’s super fucking annoying for you right now. But like, man, it does it feel good. Like, even, you know, uh Googling how to move out of the country for four hours. There’s something, even if you nothing changes, there’s something therapeutic about that. And I know you’re in a position now where you’re getting all these panicked phone calls. So thank you for being that person for queer people to just maybe throw some of that at.
SPEAKER_04:
The phone calls aren’t annoying. The context of just wait till Gavin calls you. Holy shit.
David:
Just get ready.
Gavin:
Yeah. Also, thank you. Uh also thanks for being a straight woman on our side and doing so much work for the queer community. I think it’s um uh I think that’s really an awesome thing you bring to us. And also now, thank you for the term takesy baxies, which I I that’s a legal term. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:
That’s right. That’s right. I use it often. Yeah.
Gavin:
So I’m curious, um, on an even more serious note, is your son so pissed that his sister got a book written about her?
SPEAKER_04:
You know, it’s so funny you say that because my daughter didn’t like like the idea of the book being out there. She was the one that was having all the feels about it. Because so in the book, Mila, which I tell her, like it’s not her, right? It’s just named her. Mila gets this puzzle, and she she’s got it. She knows what to do. She’s a maker kid, she’s got a plan, and so she starts doing it, and the plan gets screwed up, right? Like it doesn’t work. She gets pissed and she throws all of the puzzle pieces onto the floor, she gets mad. That’s the part she doesn’t like. Um, and then she learns our strategy and she’s able to put the puzzle back together. And at the end, she’s so proud of herself, not just because she made this puzzle, but she worked through this thing and she learned how to overcome these big feelings and use them in a positive way. So she was a little embarrassed about the throwing the puzzles on the floor and making a mess. Also, there’s a part about wiping her snot. So she wasn’t into it. Like she, I’m allowed to bring it to her school, but I’m not allowed to do a reading in her class, which at this point she’s a little too old, anyways. But one thing that happened that was really, really great was um, we went for a book signing and she came with me. And so I did the reading and I’m signing the books, and she signed the books.
Gavin:
Oh, that’s great.
SPEAKER_04:
That yes, like all of a sudden, that that like that was a what’s the word? Like that was a breakthrough for us, right? And so she was not, he was not pissed, she was more pissed, but we’re working through it.
Gavin:
Yeah, and now she’s like she’s been stung. By the bug of uh Showbiz, and she’s like, I want to sign autographs for the rest of my life.
SPEAKER_04:
You know what she said to me? She goes, So you wrote this book and I know you’re making money. I feel like I should get some.
Gavin:
She’s not wrong.
SPEAKER_04:
I was like, you don’t want to know the amount of money that I’m not making on this book.
Gavin:
I bet. I bet. So where can we find your book?
SPEAKER_04:
Oh, thank you. Um, so it’s available, like if you have an independent bookstore that you love to support, which we love to do, um, it’s distributed by all the major folks so they can order it. And then, yes, Amazon will have it. It’s on my website, rachelostwing.com too. So multiple choices, whatever works for folks. Um and you might notice that on the cover, Mila is wearing basically a gay pride flag.
David:
Fantastic. Are you trying to indoctrinate the children of the world? Are you gonna have a agenda? Are you gonna have a drag queen read this? Oh my god, to make everybody trans. Oh my god.
SPEAKER_02:
Ban my book.
David:
Ban it, yes. Oh my god. What a what a what an incredible accolade if you got your book banned. I mean, that’s pretty amazing.
SPEAKER_04:
I would be in such a great group, a great company.
David:
Oh my gosh, yes. I think we should do Gavin and I are notoriously terrible about planning ahead, but maybe next year we’ll do an episode right before Christmas of like all of our amazing Gate Church guests and all the books and the things they’ve created that you can purchase, and we’ll do like a Chris, like an Oprah’s Christmas gift. Can’t we? Yeah, that we’ve missed this year already, but we’ll have to do next year. Um we can do it in March too. Why does it have to be Christmas? That’s true. We’re we’re we’re chaos uh dumpster uh raccoons here. Um so wrapping it up, we always love to ask our guests, like kind of, I’ll never forget the time when I earned my parenting badge, when everything fell apart and I went, Oh, yeah, yep, I got it. I’m a I’m a parent now.
SPEAKER_02:
Hmm.
SPEAKER_04:
Trying to think like how bad this should be.
Gavin:
As bad and as bad as possible. It could do. Yeah. This is a dumpster fire after all.
SPEAKER_04:
Oh my gosh. There was a time when I guess my daughter was like one and a half, and I feel like we’ve all experienced this, right? Like they have just blown through and puked up over every little thing that you have packed on a trip. So I remember we had like a five-hour drive before we got to the airport that we needed to go to to get home, and like literally we brought Mila through security wrecked in a towel. Like that was all we got. That was it.
David:
That is that is a great one because I feel like that is such a rite of passage. Like, we’ve all carried a naked toddler out of an establishment at some point.
Gavin:
Right. But carrying a child swaddled in a towel through security is pretty hilarious.
SPEAKER_04:
Yes. Here’s another one. You can cut this if you if you like the other one better. Um, my daughter was afraid of scary potties, and a scary potty is defined as one that has an automatic flush. So, right, like girls have to sit down, and if it’s an automatic flush, like that happens, we might not be ready for it. She was really into porta potties, which we got her past by because those are gross. So my husband was taking her to the bathroom at an airport, and she is literally screaming bloody murder. And I’m like, like, you can hear it. Like, I see people walking past it, but nobody said anything. And I was like, at this, like both at the same time, like part of me was like, Oh, thank god, nobody’s saying anything.
Gavin:
And yet at the same time.
SPEAKER_04:
Exactly. Like, why isn’t anybody saying anything? Clearly, there’s a distressed child.
Gavin:
That’s amazing. Well, Rachel, uh, thank you so much for demeaning yourself by coming on our stupid old podcast. And thank you for doing the work you’re doing. And please write more books for us and come back on the show and tell us about them, okay?
SPEAKER_03:
Well, thank you so much for having me. I I had so much fun talking to you and uh happy new year.
David:
Happy New Year. So, my something great this week. Um, so you and I have a lot of friends uh in LA, and there’s been some devastating wildfires there. And um, one of the things that I thought was really cool about how a lot of people found out about that is these apps, right? There’s an app called Watch Duty, which is a wildfire tracking app. And so a lot of people in LA were using it to kind of track this. And I was just like renewed that, like, you know, the internet is full of disgusting gross things, like your you and I. Um, but also there’s amazing shit out there. And the fact that we live in a world now where we can just virtually track these fires in a way to probably save a ton of lives and stuff is just really fucking cool. So my something great this week is technology.
Gavin:
You know what? Uh, there’s no way I’m gonna try to go in another direction from that by any stretch, but I will say um I was really amazed with the wildfire organizing that’s been going on. That speaking of technology, this is almost a simple technology, that there’s a foundation, I think it’s like the uh Association of LA community, something like that. And they just started a Google Doc that is open to everybody, and they’re just like spread this and you put in the city, the institution, like a restaurant or a goodwill or a church or whatever, and what service they’re providing, and then a column for what service they’re providing, free meals, uh uh clothing outreach, whatever, and then uh maybe the um uh phone number or how you can help kind of thing. And it’s a very, very, very simple doc. And it’s just one big ass spreadsheet that has spread uh uh all over the place, and um and it’s just an easy resource for because there are so many ways or or uh uh bits of information coming at us, like where do you help, what do you do, blah, blah, blah. Just one central spreadsheet makes so much sense. And that is um what a relief that is. Um, we are sending all of our good vibes to California because what an incredibly difficult bonkers time. That is our show. If you have any comments, suggestions, or general compliments, you can email us at gatriarchspodcast at gmail.com.
David:
Or you can DM us on Instagram. We are at Gatriarchspodcast. On the internet, David is at DavidFM VaughnEverywhere, and Gavin is at GavinLodge on nothing.
Gavin:
Please leave us a glowing five-star review wherever you get your podcast.
David:
Thanks, and we’ll inaugurate you next time on another episode of Gatriarchs.