Full Transcript
The Queer Family Booker. Well, hello there. My name is Jamie, and I am the host of the Queer Family Podcast. The show all about family, both gay, as we like to say. The point of the show is and always has been to highlight LGBTQIA plus families, letting the whole world know that despite the fact that we work very hard to create our extremely intentional families, we’re just like every other parent out there trying not to yell at our kids when they still haven’t put their shoes on and we are already 25 minutes late for school. The struggle is real, am I right? I go in-depth with weekly LGBTQIA plus folks and some allies on how they built their families and how they show up in a world that wasn’t necessarily designed for them. We laugh a lot, we cry a little, we learn a lot, and through our stories, we illustrate the undeniable fact that love is in fact love, and love makes a family. I hope you tune in, and if you like what you hear, you subscribe, rate, and review wherever you get your podcasts, and make sure you’re following us on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, and YouTube where you’re gonna find some video episodes as well. Tune in. Happy listening. I’ll see you soon.
SPEAKER_01:
Lovers, lovers, love on the queer family podcast. Love is love.
David:
What’s next week’s list gonna be?
Gavin:
Uh it’s funny that you ask me that right now because I’m looking at my list realizing that I didn’t uh think of one. So what we should do next week is something gayer. Top three reasons I should fire Gavin from the podcast. I mean, top three. How how will you be able to narrow it down? And this is Gatrich. So the other night, my daughter says to me, Daddy, what’s your favorite football team? And I’m like, What?
David:
You’re like the Boston Red Sox. I don’t know.
Gavin:
So I’m like, well, I mean, I grew up in Denver, so you know, I’ll always say the Denver Broncos. And she goes, My favorite team is Kansas City. And I’m like, What? You’ve never had an opinion about sports ever in your entire life, except your soccer team, and who sucks on it and who doesn’t. But so suddenly I’m like, Oh, you like Kansas City, huh? And she goes, uh-huh. Because Taylor Swift is dating Travis Kelsey. Wait, what? Yeah. Now I didn’t know. I know we are way behind because we are obviously we have uh released this on October 11th, but um, and today is obviously it’s very October 11th. Weeks, I’m weeks behind in this story. But I’m like, okay, girl, you have an opinion about sports, thanks to Taylor Swift. I mean, Taylor Swift is, you know, there’s so many hilarious memes about you know, people being like, Taylor Swift is really gonna make Travis Kelsey’s career sale when in reality, are you are you up to date with like oh yes?
David:
Somehow I fell into all this and I I I was kind of here for it because there’s like so many mean things and it was fantastic.
Gavin:
It’s hilarious, it’s hilarious. Well, anyway, so she says to me, but you know, daddy, what this means. Oh, and she, of course, is like, and I can’t wait to watch next week’s game. I’m like, what? Okay, you want to watch a football game? Great, just to see if Taylor Swift is gonna be in the background. Cool. She goes, but you know what this means, Daddy? She has a new boyfriend, so what does that mean? A new album coming up. Oh, and by the way, daddy, oh, and by the way, daddy, Denver sucks. And I’m like, excuse me? She goes, Yeah, they lost like 70 to 20. And I’m like, sweetie, uh, that is almost statistically impossible for a game to have a spread of 70 to 20.
David:
Also, and stop. Just just be into the Taylor Swift part of this. Don’t don’t think that you know stats and you’re gonna join a fantasy league.
Gavin:
So then I literally turned and I Googled real quick what was the score of the last Denver Broncos game, and they lost 70 to 20. Oh my god. And also, by the way, they’re in last place in the NFL. But I was like, okay, girl, you know football scores now. And I’m I mean, I guess I’m here for it all.
David:
I mean, I guess if this is the way she gets into something different to like diversify her Taylor Swift in the except not diversifying at all.
Gavin:
But I mean, listen, I um I don’t mind um watching a football game with her, and by watching a football game, I mean watching the last seven minutes, which is the most interesting part, and some of the commercials. But um, you know, and and thick men and white tights or whatever they’re wearing, right? Throwing tights in their tight pants.
David:
Yes, watching the tight end in his tight white pants, and the wide receivers, uh, my nickname in college. So, anyway, um yeah, so children are stupid. Um, but also I have decided that children are ugly mirrors. Oh, and when I say that, I mean like you don’t realize you do or say or act a certain way, and then your children do it. Yeah and you realize it comes from you. Yeah, and it is never cute. I mean, every once in a while it’s cute. So, like um, one of the things my husband says when um our son gets up is like, Did you have a good sleep? And it’s very sweet. And now he’ll wake up and he’ll come into our room and be like, Did you guys have a good sleep? So it’s very cute. So sometimes it’s cute, sometimes it’s not cute. Like I I would say most of the time. I think me, like most self-respecting artists, hate myself with such a burning passion, um, but also an egomaniac at the same time. Do you already know? Relatable, relatable.
Gavin:
Your shit doesn’t stink and you hate yourself at the same time.
David:
And I can’t walk past a mirror with A hating myself, B, lifting my shirt up and looking at my stomach to see if it still is as disgusting as I think it is.
Gavin:
How much you have to hate yourself in that moment.
David:
Yeah, I mean, it’s like a real like deep sea of trauma.
Gavin:
I mean, you mean you’ve heard me many times say I cannot look at myself in the screen right now because I will just stare at myself the entire time. So I always have our notes next covering my face up.
David:
Yeah. So my son is peeing the other day, and I’m waiting for him to be done, and I you know, staring at my my my midsection, hating myself. And my my son turns to me and goes, Daddy, why do you always look at yourself? Why always lift your shirt up and look at yourself? And my husband had warned me, he’s like, You gotta stop doing that because he’s gonna because like this is this is like going to our top three list is at the generational curses. I was like, I cannot pass along this body trauma to him. But it was like one of those things where I was like, I didn’t think he saw that. Like he doesn’t see anything, but I do it all the fucking time. And by the way, out there, this is totally in my head. I have a rock hard six pack, but I just you know, I’m just gonna- We’re gonna put that in our show notes. Yeah, I’ll I’ll post some shirtless photos on Instagram. So anyway, I think children are ugly to mirrors.
Gavin:
We we definitely need to build our following and your thirst trap pictures. I mean, let’s do it.
David:
I did post a uh TikTok of me with like my shirt open, like dancing, and it was a it was a big step for me. I was very nervous because I don’t I don’t have a good body, but I was just like, you know what? I don’t care. This is a joke, whatever. Um uh it has like two views, anyway.
Gavin:
As you should though, we really do need to get past our art artsy um uh body trauma because it’s like the I I’m gonna stop you right now and say, hey, everybody, David might not have a six-pack, but he’s got at least a two-pack and yeah, and and a two-pack and a tube top. They look really good together. And you need to embrace your i I wouldn’t even say you have a dad bot. Just but it’s a big thing. No, I don’t.
David:
I I I actually don’t. Like if I’m being honest with myself, I look, I have an I have like a mannequin body where I just look like a regular person. There’s no nothing interesting or defining about me. Um, but you know, I I I hate myself like a very good artist. But um, I want to move on to just the last topic before we do our top three, which is um moms groups on Facebook. There was a post in a gay dad’s group I’m in on Facebook talking about this, and they were talking about how do you feel about these like moms groups, right? Like where it’s like moms of you know, Bergen County or whatever, and like you’re not allowed in there. And it’s just an interesting thing because like you understand the reason they exist is like because there’s a safe space for these moms to do whatever, yeah, but also it’s exclusionary for people who aren’t don’t have moms in their family, but also it’s but also there’s the gay dad group, which is the same way, but ooh, that was some drama. There was some back and forth in that. And I am here, I told you Facebook drama, catnip to me.
Gavin:
Wait, are you saying in the the gay dads group that was the drama they were going to do it?
David:
It was like women deserve their own safe space, blah, blah, blah. And the other people are like, absolutely not, it’s exclusionary. How dare they let us not let us in there? And I’m just like, whatever. But there’s one in my hometown, and it is the only parents group of my town. And they were like, it’s like a mom’s group. And I was like, I asked, I emailed the moderator. I was like, Can I join? I’m not, I don’t, we don’t, there’s a two-dad family. And she was like, No. Because my my neighbor friend said, like, oh, did you see the thing in the parents group? There’s like free toys in the curb. I was like, No, I’m not allowed in there. It’s not a parents group, it’s a mom’s group.
Gavin:
And do you know what it that’s a difference? Well, that’s funny. That’s funny. Just now I was kind of like, oh, come on, you don’t need to be in a mom’s group. You have got your gay dads, but wait, the local thing? You should be allowed in there.
David:
There’s no local, but I then I was like, should I start up local dads? Oh, please. This is so stupid. But like, but no, the gay dads group is like a national, just basically a uh it’s called gay dads on Facebook. It’s pretty cool. Yeah, of course. But um, but yeah, no, it’s like a local town, like, hey guys, like yeah, questions about pediatricians, like helpful stuff, but it’s very that should be.
Gavin:
I mean, and obviously you would be the most contributive and uh helpful person on that group, and they don’t realize what they’ve left out. I mean, come on. That is exclusionary and stupid, I think.
David:
Totally. So um, so moving on from uh these uh children are ugly mirrors and not passing down your trauma. Let’s talk about our top three lists this week, shall we? It’s time for the top three list. Gatry arcs, top three list, three, two, one. I love that song. So this week is my list, and it is top three unserious generational curses you are breaking. This is a TikTok trend that happened last month, but we are you and the you and the TT. All right. I love a TT.
Gavin:
I wish I had I wish I had studied that. I bet my list would be a lot better, but I’ve got I’m ready.
David:
I’m ready. That’s okay. You’re you’re you’re usually a disappointment in all areas. Um absolutely mediocre. So, number three for me, unserious generational curse, um, gift giving for Christmas and every family member for birthdays and Christmases and everything.
SPEAKER_05:
Oh.
David:
Me and my friends, like my inner circle, we don’t really get each other gifts anymore. Like we’ll maybe go out for dinner for a birthday, or we’ll maybe, or we’ll do like a fun thing or whatever, but like the like nonstop gift giving for everything, for every uncle and aunt and niece and nephew and cousin. Oh, we’re breaking that. We’re breaking that.
Gavin:
You you but you know people who do that still?
David:
My family still does that. Oh wow, we’re good for it. It’s very generous. But we have a fan, I mean it would be like 25 people I have to buy for. I was like, no, we’re breaking that. Um, number two, um, there are things that we don’t talk about. I’m breaking that. Religion, politics, all of that kind of stuff, sex. Like I grew up in a family where there are just some things that are unkind that we don’t talk about. And let’s just, you know, the people get very upset. Let’s just not talk about them. No.
Gavin:
But are they unkind or are they just lead they lead down a path of family?
David:
But I think that’s important. I think the more you cap that, yeah, the more probably like it just anyway. So um, I’m breaking that curse. Um, and number one, the unserious generational curse I am breaking is finish what’s on your plate. Oh, good. Uh, teaching that food is, you know, if you’re hungry, you eat the food that you’ve been given. If you’re not hungry, you don’t eat it. Like the the thought that you have to finish this food when you don’t want to eat and putting a negative association with uh food and uh what it does for your body. Um, I’m breaking that. That’s my number one. What about you?
Gavin:
In this one episode, you have gone from um bringing the body trauma to ending the body trauma. I’m I also I also bet one thing that you would like, one unserious generation generational curse you’d like to stop is me interrupting your top threes. But hey, I want to converse with you. So um, for me, number three is cleaning the house. Now, what I mean by that is it’s not that we don’t clean the house, but my mom had house trauma, frankly, that nobody was allowed in the house unless it was absolutely immaculate. And frankly, we didn’t have an immaculate house. I’m not saying it was dirty, it was just kind of messy. And therefore, nobody was allowed in the house. And I’m like, folks, I would rather have the fellowship in my house than think that I can’t let anybody if every crumb is not on the counter. Because guess what, y’all? We have piles of paper from time to time, and um, and yeah, so I’m ending having to have a clean house to have people over. Number two, combed hair. Like, whatever.
David:
Well, I can tell you’ve you’ve given up on that pretty true. Whatever.
Gavin:
Well, for my kids, it’s like, if you listen, if you don’t want to comb your hair, I frankly I don’t care because we don’t live in a slicked down, you know, world anymore. And um, and there was I had so much trauma about having the right haircut when uh when I was a kid, and my mom just always was like screaming about me looking like the perfect little kid, and I didn’t want to look like the perfect little kid, especially in middle school. So I’m like, you know what? Cut your hair however you want. I don’t want to have this drama. And number one, pretending to have my shit together. I mean, that’s what Gatriarch’s podcast is about, right? It’s like we are we we have to end ourselves, disassociate ourselves from thinking that we have all of our shit together. Because you know, I came screening into this recording just now, not having my shit together.
David:
So Gavin, that was actually a really well thought out, good list for you. I’m surprised. Um, and I’m proud, but mostly surprised. I feel abused.
Gavin:
That was a really good list. That was good. What’s next week? For next week, I want to hear about from you the three things you hope your kids fail at. You’re so mean.
David:
Keeping expectations low, baby. Our guest this week is a sexual health and wellness expert, anal surgeon, and a co-founder of Future Method, a science-based sex care brand that was developed as a result of the issues he saw with his patients at his private practice, Bespoke Surgical. He’s also a dad. He’s the dad of twin boys, and now he can finally say that he’s made it by being here on this stupid little podcast. Please welcome to Gatriarch’s Dr. Evan Goldstein.
SPEAKER_04:
All right, thanks for having me.
David:
Thank you for joining us, Doctor. Thanks for joining us at 9 32 a.m. on a Monday. I don’t know what we deserve did to deserve this, but thank you. You know what?
Gavin:
I was, I was about to say welcome to the very first doctor who’s actually demeaned themselves, but I don’t think you are the first, actually. But you’re the first gay doctor of twins, I would say. So uh thank you for uh being our first of those.
David:
Yeah, and you know what? I I’ve been a fan of yours for a long time. So I found you, I don’t know if we talked about this, but I am a obviously listen to Savage Love like every uh well-respecting gay man. And um that show absolutely changed my life. But like I I’ve heard you a couple times on the show. Um, and I just absolutely love the weird kind of perfect puzzle piece you have created, which is like I am this expert, uh I’m this wellness expert, this this doctor, but also I am absolutely unafraid to say all the things that maybe people are afraid to ask or do or say. Um, and I feel like that’s really important because there’s this weird shame aspect to, I’m sure, health that you can tell us about, but also just being a gay man and being a gay parent that you just sometimes are afraid to say the things. And then, you know, you go through your Instagram or whatever, and there’s just you’re holding all kinds of butt plugs talking about the best ways to use them. And I just I wish every doctor uh had that Instagram.
SPEAKER_04:
Well, I think it winds up just being there is still, unfortunately, so much stigma and taboo associated with not only gay sex, but anal sex in particular. And so you have to have this hokey fun type of environment to really just allow people to say that sex is important, whatever sex that I engage in is important, and especially as dads and kind of working with your partners to try to figure out well, sex is important, and how do we kind of figure out what that is and redefine that, especially as the stages of parenting uh continue on and on and on.
David:
But that’s the thing is I think we have, we, we as gay men have historically had to like pretend that we were the same as straight people in order to kind of get granted access into certain straight spaces. And I feel like parenting is one of those things where we kind of like we hide that the sexual part of us to be like we can be parents too, in a way to kind of sneak in the back door, you know, metaphor. There’s the metaphor there. So but that’s what I that’s what I so love about you and your stuff, and this is why we created the show is that we as gay men also are sexual beings while we can also be parents at the same time. And that is does that that feels like in conflict in a weird way, and maybe that’s my own baggage, but that’s why I so appreciate this. So let’s get into it.
Gavin:
Yeah, I want to know have you it seems like you you have a whimsical approach, you have a fun approach, you have a lighthearted approach. Have you always been in your whole life the opposite of anal retentive?
SPEAKER_04:
Um, no, actually. I am still so anal. It must just be the character that I’m playing. Yeah. I I just think that, you know, I always thought of how would I want to be treated? Um, especially even if I’m at a doctor’s office or a dentist’s office and I’m waiting forever. I just have no patience for that. It’s like, why is my time better than your time? Why is my time more valuable than your time? And and I kind of said, well, how do we think of what I want to do on the anal perspective, but how do I deliver that care in such a way that destigmatizes, takes the taboo out from an environment perspective? The second you walk in, it’s just a little bit more of like, bring it down. Like it doesn’t need to be to that degree to allow people to feel comfortable. I I’m on time, I want you to, I want to respect your time, I give you my email, and there’s this communication because I already know I have so many barriers that need to be met even before they step foot in there. So, how do I kind of use that to create an environment that just makes sense?
David:
Well, Dr. Goldstein, your time is more valuable because you are a medical doctor, and I have a degree in musical theater from Florida State University. So your time is more valuable though. Very true, very true.
Gavin:
But when you say you are actually anal, does that mean you are somebody who lines his socks up color-coded? Or what does it mean for you to say that you’re super anal?
SPEAKER_04:
Well, I think you know, most so surgeons are pretty you know, like I know exactly to the the exact time that it will take me to do X, Y, and Z. And then if I’m doing 10 surgeries on a Friday, I know that I’ll hit a certain train to go home because I got this going on. So I I I am definitely someone though I have definitely gotten better as the kids fuck with your mind. They you know, where where you’re kind of like, okay, like, okay, okay, like this is this is not the way that it was supposed to go.
Gavin:
You can only be so controlling with children. But can I ask real briefly then, what it what are the surgeries you’re performing, though? Can you just give us an overview of what is it you do on your life?
SPEAKER_04:
So, you know, bespoke surgical really came out of a practice um of a thought. I was actually with Andy, my partner in Central Park, and I said, What happens if people get injured sexually? Where do they go? Uh, what about people that that can’t bottom and really want to medically, you know, mentally and and and socially, they’re like, I want a bottom. Like, this is something that’s really important to me, but yet functionally they don’t have the capacity to do that. And Andy was like, oh, fuck. No one cares. They’ll just go to the doctor that, and even if they’re gay or straight, who cares? And I was like, well, hold on a second. First of all, I do think people care. I said, and second of all, I don’t think that doctor is there. I don’t think that they’ve actually invented that doctor. I said, I think I want to do that. And that was about 16 years ago. And, you know, I had to train myself. No one, even in colorectal surgery and in anal surgery, um, nobody was doing this stuff. Nobody was thinking outside the box, literally, of saying, hey, this is something beyond shitting. People are using it for this, people are using it for this, rightfully so. And how do we learn how to take care of it? And so that stemmed my practice. And as I started to do that, you would start to see patterns, patterns of people that were either taking too big dick, um, or we’re not engaging correctly, or we’re just not meant physically in that space to be able to take their partner’s appendages or whatever they were thinking about taking. And so I said, okay, well, let’s come up with scenarios like how do I fix the tear? How do I think about friction with sex? And if somebody has a hemorrhoid or a skin tag, not only remove it so that they can shit well, but think about, well, what do we need to do to get them to take their partner or partners or the toy or fist that they want? And so a lot of the surgeries are that that I’m too tight, I’ve torn, I have extra skin or hemorrhoids, or the opposite, which is I’ve really enjoyed myself a lot. And and I have my partners are huge, and I’m into fisting, and I start started really early, and now I feel a little bit too loose, or or I don’t have the same pleasures that I’ve had in the past, or my partners are complaining that that they can’t get off inside me because of X, Y, and Z. And then I tighten them and do other things. So a lot of that, and then also the aesthetic side, which I don’t want to play too much into it because uh I don’t want people to think that I’m like pushing, hey, the hole needs to look this way. I think it’s what is that for you? Meaning, if I’ve seen someone with the biggest skin tag hanging off their ass and they’re like, whatever you do, do not touch that fucking thing. And I was like, why? They’re like, My partner loves it, he loves to flick it and play with it and lick it and eat it. I was like, I was like, all right, that fucking thing is staying, you know.
David:
And also the value that you provide to people who would medically be more damaged by just shutting their mouth because they’re too embarrassed to tell their doctor whatever happened. You know what I mean? They’re like, I’m just gonna live with the pain or the blood or whatever. You’re providing that outlet to those people who would maybe have real damage to themselves by just shutting their mouths, which I well I think it’s I think it’s that’s what’s so important about what we do here, like with you guys.
SPEAKER_04:
Because the problem is that I did a study very early on in my career, and I found out that 92% of even gay doctors will not talk about gay sex. Now that that’s uh that’s huge. So it was like, well, wait a second. If if we’re fearful of talking about it, if the doctors aren’t gonna bring it up, how am I gonna get clients? You know, and so so that was what really spawned the PR side of this was to say, all right, how do we become really important socially? How do we look at social media and how do I use PR and how do we podcast to talk to people and say, no, you shouldn’t put sex on the back burner, you shouldn’t put anal in this space to be like, because that there’s now easy approaches and simple things that we can do that change lives. Let me tell you something. I do something for five, 10 minutes in an operating room that is not very complicated, I’m telling you. But yet when they come back and they’re getting fucked and they’re so happy, and them and their partners, you know, it loses, you lose relationships. People, yeah, people come in and they’re like, my partner left me. I can’t find somebody that wants to be with me because of X, Y, and Z. It fucks with people and not in a good way. You know, it’s really terrible.
David:
Is there a surgery you perform to fix Gaben’s bad attitude? Is that something you can do with a stats?
Gavin:
I mean, first of all, fuck off. And second of all, that is so hilarious because it does absol absolutely make me think of my children and their bad attitudes, which makes me think of your children and whatever attitudes they may have. So, can you do you mind giving us a little background of like how you became a dad and um and um how has it changed you as a doctor?
SPEAKER_04:
Yeah, so you know, Andy and I, I I actually didn’t want to be a dad. I mean, not at that part of my life. You know, the problem was I was married to a woman, uh, I came out, obviously I ended that, got divorced in that situation, um, and then I met Andy. And when we were dating, um, I just finished training. So I was like still very young. Okay, I wasn’t gay, I I didn’t get to live in my 20s because I was training, and I didn’t get to travel. And so Andy was in fashion, and we were traveling, we were doing so many things, and then one day he turns to me and he’s like, I want to have kids. And I was like, uh I’m just not ready. He’s like, Well, either I’m gonna have kids with you or I’m gonna have kids with someone else. Like, you need to make the decision. And so I was like, Fuck it, I guess we’re having kids. And then, like, literally 11 months later, he had because it was so quick because what wound up happening is uh our surrogate mother was was scheduled to be with another uh single dad, and when she went to meet him, she just didn’t like the dynamic, there was something not right, so she was like literally like ready to roll, and we just scooped her up, and it was amazing.
David:
Did you do gestational surrogacy or did you do traditional surrogacy? Traditional surrogacy. Okay. Um, and so you didn’t have to create embryos.
SPEAKER_04:
Oh no, no, no, I’m sorry, just gestational surrogacy. Okay. Um, and this was done in San Diego at the time. She was from uh Arizona, and we wound up putting in at that time, I don’t think you could do it now, but we wound up putting in three.
David:
Oh my gosh. Yeah, now now most doctors won’t do more than one. And if they do, they may do two, but it’s definitely frowned upon. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:
So we wound up putting in three. Wow. And and all three of them took and one split. And so we wound up So it was like, so Heather called me and she’s like, uh, are you guys sitting down? She’s like, I signed in my contract that I would not do more than two. She’s like, this has got to end. So anyhow, we were scheduled to do a reduction, and we were supposed to reduce the identical twins because they share the same placenta, and it’s the higher risk of all the four.
Gavin:
Sure.
SPEAKER_04:
The day before she was gonna get, she had a sonogram, and the only two that were left were Phoenix and Sebastian, my kids, the two identical twins.
David:
And were they like facing like the ultrasound with their like middle fingers up? They were like, we’re not gonna, you’re not gonna reduce us, motherfuckers.
SPEAKER_04:
They’re like, they’re like the rest of you are fucking out. You know, we eat those motherfuckers.
David:
We’re here.
SPEAKER_04:
Gone, gone. And uh, and then it was a tumultuous course, just like a lot of us. You know, the problem is when they share a placenta, you worry about one pro one of them getting too much blood, and then the other, and then what happens is the organs. So Sebastian was getting too much, Phoenix wasn’t, uh, Phoenix’s heart was potentially having some issues. Um, and then this is a crazy story, but uh so it was the year of the dragon, but it started at the end of January. And Andy is Taiwanese and obviously full into we need dragon babies. So now Heather was on bed rest, and uh, we knew the kids, it’s twins and boys. We know they’re gonna come early. So we said to her, so Andy said, All right, I will give you something extra, ching ching ching, if if you keep the babies in for the dragon, year of the dragon. So hilarious. On Monday morning, literally Sunday night at 12.01, Monday morning becomes the year of the dragon. Oh my god. She calls us and she says, you know, I’ve been feeling these pains from Friday. I was like, and I didn’t I don’t know if it’s anything, I’m just gonna go to the hospital. And then literally, an hour later, we get a call that they’re like popped out and like, you know, it’s a c-section emergency. She held them in all weekend.
David:
She had duct taped herself. She just she it was get a little tuckaroony because she wanted that cha-ching beyond crossing her legs.
Gavin:
Boy, she talk about somebody not shitting for a while. Oh, totally.
SPEAKER_04:
Jeez amazing. And then it was the best thing, and it has been it has transformed me and changed me in such a positive light in my life. I mean, you know, it it really starts to ground you, it really uh shows you what’s truly important. And yes, I love what I do at work, I love going to work and helping people, but when I am at home and you start to kind of really uh form this relationship and start to cultivate and and understand how to drive them in the right direction, it is it is super cool. Yeah.
Gavin:
Now they’re dragon boys, though. So surely you’ve got uh some dragonista kind of stories for us. Uh what it is are are they uh putting you to the test every single day?
SPEAKER_04:
Or yeah, you know, now they’re I mean, now I I I could have skipped the first seven years.
David:
I honestly especially I have a four-year-old and a one-year-old, so please don’t tell that to me. Seven years old.
SPEAKER_04:
Seven, I could have skipped, you know, it’s like it was two boys and then twins, you know, and then like you know, you have to raise twins differently. You know, you do a lot of things different where they’ve never slept with us in the beds because like if one comes in, the other, and then it just becomes a whole big cluster fuck. And like you never would feed them holding them, you would feed them in the bassinets because you didn’t want them to become so attached to you in that way, because then you’re like, you know, you’re trying to juggle all this shit, and then there’s only uh, you know, and there’s only one of you. Um, but you know, they are it’s so weird for me to see the same genetic imprint become completely two different individuals. That’s what I think is so super cool. Um, you know, they are they’re really actually easy kids now. I mean, when they were growing up, Sebastian had some delays, and and uh when you don’t have vocabulary, what do you do? You hit, you bite, you you create uh situations that were just uh really not fruitful. Um we had so much help in the beginning uh with early intervention stuff that was so positive. Oh my god, I just to tell all dads, uh anyone out there that are parents, that like there are services out there that are life-changing. And if you are doing things early in in your child’s life, uh you change their course forever in such a positive light. And and one of the things that I think I learned very I was a very I was not a traditional gay because I was really super sporty in everything.
David:
I he says wincing and almost apologizing. Yes. And and he’s talking about women’s figure skating, by the way.
SPEAKER_04:
So don’t don’t but I was like, you know, football, basketball, all this stuff. And and I still am, but when I was growing up, you try to put onto your kids the things that you know. But my kids were like, Evan, I I dad, I I’m not into those things. And you start to learn that like you’re not living your kids’ life, like your job is to allow your kid to live their life and just help them navigate and make the right choices. So now it’s a lot of that type A personality that I was that you learn that, like, you know, Sebastian came home from the new school and he’s like, I’ve decided not to play ice hockey anymore. He says, and I said, Okay, and what sport are you taking? And he goes, art.
Gavin:
And I was like, full contact. I was like, perfect. I was like, you do good for you.
David:
But that’s it, that’s something interesting that I have felt guilty about myself as a dad is now, and my kids are very young, is that I have enjoyed them more when they act more like people. So, like my four-year-old has like ideas and he draws cool things, and I find myself enjoying that a lot. But when they were like infants, I remember times just being like, I think I’m supposed to love you more. Not that I didn’t love them, but I didn’t enjoy them. Totally. You know what I mean? Like I would just sit there in the middle of the night with this eight-month-old who was beautiful and I would protect at all ends. But I just was like, I was I felt guilty that I didn’t feel that like, oh, it’s buddy buddy, it’s so wonderful. But I’m starting to see that I know, but I’m starting to see that grow now at uh with my four-year-old, the one-year-old, I’m like, get out of my life. But like, you know, the four-year-old, I’m like, this is I see it now, and I think that’s part of it is that they become more of actual people that you can have that back and forth with.
Gavin:
So, Doctor, given that you have boys and and David has a boy and I have a boy, uh, do you suppose that your household is particularly well programmed to have uh fart and poop jokes? Uh and pissed everywhere.
SPEAKER_04:
Pissed everywhere. I was just reading with Sebastian, and like, you know, we’re reading, and he just like farts right in the middle of it’s like, it’s like, dude, like like we’re we’re we’re having a moment of reading, and like now it just stinks like eggs in the morning. I was like, And that’s the height of comedy, right?
David:
He’s the he thinks that I have perfected comedy at that bit.
SPEAKER_04:
Yeah, and we have so many boys in my house, literally. So we have the two boys, uh Phoenix Dispatch, and we got Andy, my partner. We have an au pair, we’ve had au pairs in our lives for four years, and they’re always got boys. So, so there’s uh them, and then we have a dog that’s a boy, so it’s like every single person in the house except for Hannah, who’s with been with us forever. She’s the only girl, but she could definitely pass for a boy at times.
Gavin:
Well, yeah, we uh there are times that I hey, I’m all about a good fart joke and a good poop joke and whatnot, too. But I do I find myself being anal retentive at the dinner table when I’m like, can you just not lean over, lift a cheek, and rip one at the dinner table?
SPEAKER_04:
Can’t you just go go excuse yourself and and just you know, it’s just I don’t need that.
David:
I think it’s amazing the things that come out of your mouth that you were like, I didn’t think that sentence needed to be together. Like, uh I my son is uncircumcised, my husband and I are both circumcised, and so it is somewhat new and you know, experience for us. And I didn’t know that I would have to say the phrase, Emmett, please stop putting toys inside your foreskin when it’s bath time, because he will put like a little like G.I. Joe, he’ll figure out a way to get his foot in there, and then he’ll like run around laughing hysterically with that. And that’s a conversation I didn’t know I was gonna have to have with Mitchell.
SPEAKER_04:
Well, well, well, we have two, so our two boys are not circumcised. Um, I was born into a Jewish family, Andy’s from Taiwan, Taiwanese most are not circumcised, and I just felt like like natural for me was absolutely how we wanted to go. But you know, it gets to become an issue, especially like my kids go to Jewish camp for the summer, and everyone there is circumcised. And so I just remember one time when the kids were younger, I see Sebastian in the bath taking the toy scissor to his to his to his foreskin, okay? And I’m like, what the fuck are you doing? And he says, and he was like, Well, I go to pre-I think he was in preschool or whatever it is. He’s like, mine is so different than others. It’s not the same. And he’s like, Let’s take it off. Why is this like this? And now they’re in they’re in school with others and they see and that it has not been an issue. But I was a little mortified. Thank God it was like one of those like ones that never really work, you know.
David:
Oh my god. So I’m curious because this is something I’ve been experiencing. Have you learned anything about sexuality by watching these boys grow up and being a dad that you maybe you didn’t know or think of before?
SPEAKER_04:
Well, we talk a lot about the vagina. I’ll tell you, I’ll I’ll tell you that much. I mean, I’ve been in there a couple of times and I haven’t been in years, okay? And like, it’s so, and when I have a female patient, you know, we cover the vagina, you know, it’s like I don’t want to see it, I don’t want to talk about it. But um, so now I have to go back and like, you know, relearn and retouch. You know, they talk about sex very early. Um, in, you know, I mean, my kids are 11 and when they in 10 years old, they were in sex ed and like learning and and talking about things. So, you know, you really have to break it down for them to understand. It seems like it gets younger and younger and younger in terms of the conversation. But it’s interesting because they they know what I do, but yet obviously sex ed doesn’t go that way. Though, though they do talk a lot about pronouns and understanding uh, you know, um sexuality, and then they came back to like, you know, we didn’t realize you two are gay.
David:
You know, you’re like, you just figured this out. I was like, uh we need to get you in a better school. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:
Yeah, yeah. I was like, I was like, yeah. So um, but you know, I think a lot of it is evolving. We’ll probably have to redo this podcast in a couple some time to see where where the kids have have come into uh into the light, you know. Um so it’s kind of interesting.
Gavin:
So along those lines then of um being your kids understanding what it is you do, can you share with us like two or three things that you feel like you debunk most frequently at work, or the things that you hope people would most take away from uh their encounter with you?
SPEAKER_04:
Yeah, I mean, I think you know, one of the main things is that people feel like they can go from nothing to dick. They feel like they can go from nothing to something big. And you have to think of anally, there’s a couple of things. One is the skin is is very thin. The muscles are thick, especially in guys. They’re really thick. And so we’re asking the three sets of muscles to open. We’re asking the skin to accommodate. And people think like, oh, I go from nothing to something, it’s all good. And you’re like, no, it doesn’t work like that. You know, what do we know? We know that there are three types of bottoms. The guy that that you go over and he can completely open his hole. That’s only a third of people can literally accommodate and do whatever they want. Two-thirds of us need assistance, whether it’s through kind of, and I break it up into three buckets. The first bucket is can you do things on your own with the right education? Meaning, if I give you glass dilators, if I give you an understanding and the education to understand gradual progression, it’s no different than going to the gym. You don’t just run a fucking marathon, right? It’s the training, it’s understanding your muscles, it’s understanding how it works. And then also as you’re training, you realize are you capable of doing it on your own? Because sometimes I need to do anal Botox, which is a relaxant to one of the muscles to allow you to dilate correctly. You know, when someone you know shoves a finger up your ass, plenty of people close their ass so fucking tight. And that’s what’s happening with sex. Where they can’t fully relax. So can the toys themselves and you learn how to do that? Or do I need to do anal Botox in the office a few times to help that? And then the third bucket is a surgical bucket, which is certain things that I’ve learned and techniques to get people either the skin to accommodate or the muscle to relax or a combination of both to allow people to get to where they need to be. So I think one is that myth. The second is, you know, people douche, and I get it. I understand why people want to clean themselves out. I get it. I totally get it. But what happens is that a lot of what I see with injury or with higher risk of STDs or HIV is because most people are over douching. And that was the impetus of me starting a company called Future Method. And Future Method is bridging what I learned in Bespoke Surgical, bringing the science into sex to say, okay, people are gonna do this regardless of what I say. They’re gonna take big dicks, they’re gonna take fists, they’re gonna love their, and they’re gonna overdouche. But but how do we meet people where they are? How do we, instead of thinking, oh, you need to use condoms, well, 85% of gay men don’t use condoms. So how do we now say, well, okay, if you’re doing this, this, and this, how do I come up with products or an education or tools to help you? And that was where Future Method came out. And so the first thing was to say, okay, we know that people are gonna douche. Are they douching with the right solution? So the realistic picture is water or enemas are really bad for you. They strip the lining, they change the microbiome, they set the stage for bad things. So the thought was, okay, well, why don’t we just come up with a solution that’s not toxic that you can use and it doesn’t do those fucking things? And so that was the first thing we launched with. And then we said, okay, well, we know people are over douching, so maybe we should like make our bulbs like even smaller than what they really should be. Well, why? Because then people are gonna douche less, because we know that there’s a correlation. The more people douche, the higher incidence of issues. So a lot of this was going into now figuring out well, how do gay men specifically, but how do people that engage in analyzing take advice? And that’s not easy because gay men don’t don’t listen to you.
David:
Gavin hasn’t listened to you in 20 minutes. It’s amazing.
Gavin:
And so anyway, I hear something, there’s a flea in the air.
SPEAKER_04:
They’re like they’re like, oh, what the fuck does this guy know? You know, I’ve been doing this this way for all these years, and I’m totally fine. And you’re like, yeah, bro, why do you have four STDs a fuck a year?
David:
You know, from the But that’s so important to remind people of like you know, people who bottom or are interested in bottoming, is that there is the physiological aspect, what you’re talking about with your buttons, and there’s also the psychological aspect of you being uh comfortable and and all that stuff. Um, let’s move on to something that I fucking love about your Instagram, which is your partner walking out the door. That’s all like if you don’t, first of all, follow Dr. Goldsey, but he just will literally walk out the door in these amazing outfits, and that’s that’s what you get. And there’s something so wonderful about it. Are you the person holding the camera? Most of the time, no.
SPEAKER_04:
I fucking refuse because we go, we we go to functions and like I I am someone that live, I try really a lot to put my phone in my pocket and live the experience, right? Just live it. And then like later, after, if I snap something or this and that, like try to give people a glimpse to what I just experienced. But that is not Andy, okay? Andy is this like, you know, wants to do this, this, and this, and this is a premeditated, this is what’s gonna happen. And I was going to functions with him, and I was his camera bitch. And I was like, I’m not, I am not doing that. I was like, that is not me. If you want someone to film you, you need to bring someone to do that. I I will not go. But no, so I do not film him doing all those things. But but I do comment when he comes down the stairs of being like, fuck, this was not who I who I really married 18 years ago. This is a completely more morphed individual that, you know, and as partnerships go, you guys know that um it’s not easy. And and and you change. Like I go in one direction and he goes in a different direction. And and the common is the children and the household. And and you have to be, even if I don’t agree with a direction, it’s not to say that I don’t agree with where he wants to go right now, I’m just saying, but but with that said, you have to be supportive of that. And and and I feel good that I’m uh giving him free reins to explore whatever he wants, just like I am with the kids. But it’s not easy because there are times when he comes down that fucking stairs that I’m like, holy shit! I’m like, I am not going out with you like that.
David:
My husband says he he heard somebody say once, like, every relationship, there’s a rock and a star. And he he laughed because, like, I’m 100% the star and he’s the rock. I think I know Dr. Goldstein, which one is the rock and which one is the star?
SPEAKER_04:
I am a Leo. I am a Leo, by the way.
David:
Okay, so I want to end this incredible interview and the the generosity you’ve given us by asking you a question. How did you earn your parenting merit badge? Oh God. Like when what when was the moment you were like, I’ve I’ve I’ve earned this? So, all right, so I’ll give you an example. So for me was it, I was, I had my second kid. I had, or I hadn’t even feel like I was a parent yet. I had my second kid, and she was maybe three weeks old. So we’re talking three-ish, four-ish times a night. I’m up in the middle of the night, and I got food poisoning, and my husband got food poisoning, and I had never had food poisoning before. I had thought I had food poisoning before. Oh, and then this time I got it. I was growing up all night, and this baby needed to eat. And there was a moment, and I will never forget, I was sitting on this couch, this orange couch right here, and I was holding an infant who was crying and trying to feed her a bottle while I had a trash can next to me, and I was leaning over and puking while I was feeding this baby. And I went, that moment, I went, I fucking earned this.
SPEAKER_04:
Yeah, I think that the first time that we traveled and we flew in a plane, and both the boys decided to puke not only on not only on their entire outfit. And of course, at that point, like we didn’t, we we we all the luggage was under the plane. Like we got really smart after that to like make sure that we had many different things, including one of those like spigots for them to puke in. Because they still to this day, they’re 12, almost 12 on every plane ride, depending upon it, we’ll we’ll do it. But you know, Andy never, I was the ass man, so Andy never changed diapers, right? And they would just shit. And we when you know when you have twins, you like one would shit, you finish that, the other shit. And then they would just go back and forth, and they smell it. It must be in the air, that then they just shit all the time. So I think those are the scenarios where, but I think I’m still looking to get the approval their parenting, their sticker of approval now that they’re old enough, you know what I’m saying? I get it every once in a while. When we send them to sleeveway camp, and Phoenix writes a letter of being like how grateful he is to have experiences like this. Um, you know, you really start to, you know, they just started a private school up here that’s um that’s more campus-like. It’s uh it’s for um 6 to 12, and and Phoenix like stopped me, and he just is like, I just gotta say, like, thank you so much for for doing what you do to send me to a place like this. He’s like, this is the coolest thing ever. So for me, like like you, I think that as they get to be more of humans, where you can actually have a real decent conversation and experience their life with them and see it. Like last night we watched Forrest Gump, and I haven’t seen that in a long time. But at the end, to see both of them just like moved in such a way that you hope you impart some wisdom uh for them and their lives, it’s that to me is a really cool badge. You know.
Gavin:
Lest we end this on a nostalgic note. I’m gonna bring it back to poop just once again because I am dying to know here we go. Are you like a simelier of your children’s poop? Like you must have a more uh profound understanding of what they’ve eaten and whatnot. Totally that uh then the rest of the children.
SPEAKER_04:
I will tell I will say that they have never in their fucking life had diaper rash. I will say that. I have perfected the approach towards cleaning whole like none other. It’s unbelievable. Proud of you.
Gavin:
What is your secret to avoiding diaper rash though? I think that’s in part of the case. You’re gonna have to wait.
SPEAKER_04:
You’re gonna have to wait because there’s lots of things coming up that will give you that secret so that you know how to make sure that not only your kids’ haul, but your hole is as clean as can be.
unknown:
Awesome.
David:
Amazing. What a wonderful way to end this. Thank you so much again for joining us and demeaning yourself by being in our stupid little podcast.
SPEAKER_04:
Oh, I love it. Thank you guys so much.
David:
Okay, so my something great, unfortunately, Gavin is sweet and not ironic or clever or funny. So, one of the things that I have just loved that I didn’t know about was morning cuddles. There’s something about cuddling your kids in the morning versus like later in the day that just like their bodies are warm, they’re extra snuggly, they’re a little sleepy. And so in the morning, when my son runs into the because he comes in around seven and he just like climbs into bed, like that cuddle is just it’s just it’s like a cuddle versus like the rest of the day is like a C cuddle, you know what I mean? Yeah. So anyway, my something great this week are morning cuddles.
Gavin:
That’s very cute. Uh that also immediately makes me think about another something great is that I love being able to um uh snuggle my little boy when I wake him up in the morning and his breath. Oh, so gross. Because he has a retainer. In particular, he has a retainer, and it just that thing is disgusting. But my something great right now is we are in the middle of October, and god damn, do I love apple cider donuts. I mean, yeah, yesterday, just yesterday, we were in the midst of between soccer games between my daughter and my son. And my daughter was livid that we were dragging her ass to go watch my son play soccer. But on the way, I knew that we were going by a farm stand that makes the most incredible apple cider donuts. And guess what? That little shitty attitude of hers changed just like that. Thanks to Apple Cider Donuts. And that is our show. If you have any comments, suggestions, or general compliments, you can email us at Gatriarchspodcast at gmail.com.
David:
Or you can DM us on Instagram. We are at Gatriarchspodcast. On the internet, David is at DavidFm Bond everywhere, and Gaven Lodge is at Gaven Lodge on farmstand.com.
Gavin:
Please leave us a glowing five star review wherever you get your podcasts.
David:
Thanks, and we’ll talk to you next time on another episode of Gatriarchs.