Full Transcript
Are you ready? Yeah. Oh, okay. I I I thought you needed a moment to like no, I was looking at you. Oh, okay. I thought you needed a moment to like zen and focus. Okay. And this is Gate Rex. So we have a babysitter that we love, love, love. She’s a friend of mine. She’s amazing. She’s wonderful. She came over to babysit the kids the other day. And we came home and she left. And then we got this text from her. And I’m gonna, I’m just gonna read you the text verbatim. I’m not gonna change anything. I’m gonna love this.
Gavin:
I dramatic reinterpretation of a text from somebody else.
David:
It is just a reading. It’s not an interpretation. She said, things I said to your kids yesterday. And these are all quotes that she’s reading. Okay. No shooting faces or private parts. Please stop saying you saw Amanda with her pants down. Amanda is the babysitter.
Gavin:
Yeah.
David:
Please don’t ask me about my bathroom habits. Stop saying butthole to Alexa. Give your sister a turn on the cooter. Because my son calls the scooter cooter. Um I think you can make something other than a big poop out of the sand. And lastly, did you hurt your penis again? And so I love receiving texts from our babysitter about the fucking chaos that is my children talking to those woman.
Gavin:
Yeah. Now, was she inoculating herself from uh you one of your kids saying, Amanda told me to give a turn on the cooter, and she’s afraid that you’re gonna come to her and say, Wait, did you say that? I mean, is she being funny or is she inoculating herself?
David:
No, no, no. She’s she’s being funny, she she gets it, but it’s also like ever, you know, she was um she’s a Broadway actress, and so she was in a show for a while. So she hadn’t babysit for us for a little over six months. So these are basically new kids at this point. Like for her, six months later for a two-year-old and a four-year-old is a totally different child. So I think she was just like, Oh, I used to babysit these children, and now I have these people saying penis and butthole and um building you know buttholes out of sand and all the things. So I just think it’s really fun to get a uh a text from your babysitter about all the disgusting, foul things that your children said to her.
Gavin:
That’s a keeper of a text message, without a doubt. And I have have you said or heard all of those things more or less as well?
David:
Oh, way, way worse. Yeah, the thing that my daughter, my two and a half year old little princess girl, likes to say more than anything is I’m gonna poop in your mouth. She thinks it’s funny because I laugh when she says it, but I’m I I I’m doing the wrong thing where I’m I’m feeding this child. So now it’s I’m going to something gross in your something that it shouldn’t go in. So she’d be like, I’m gonna fart in your eye. I’m like, I I can’t anymore.
Gavin:
But at least she’s being creative and taking, you know, taking some diversions of her nouns and whatnot. I mean, that’s uh I cannot wait to hear when she says, I’m gonna poop in your mouth to your mother or your mother-in-law or my son already asked my mom where her penis is.
David:
So it’s we’re we’re doing really great here.
Gavin:
I remember I think I remember that, but what was your mom’s response? Did she have a quippy response?
David:
It’s not like you as a kid, didn’t you ask? Probably. My poor mom is is the is mostly a buttoned up, we don’t talk about things kind of person, but man, these children have pushed her out of that lane because when you’re when you’re asked what your penis is, you gotta respond somehow.
Gavin:
You gotta something, some kind of a response.
David:
She’s like busted in the war. That is fantastic.
Gavin:
I I miss those days of getting texts from babysitters and saying, uh, here a little report, just so you know. I remember actually I got a couple of texts. I the texts that come to mind. I mean, it’s just amazing what your your brain becomes a sieve and you can’t remember anything anymore. Um, sometimes when we ask our guests, hey, tell us something crazy from your kid’s childhood, and they’re like, I can’t remember. And we think, oh, come on. And then I’m like, oh no, actually, I might be there too. But I I love the ones that are like, uh, so just so you know, we had a little fall.
David:
Everything is fine. Everything is fine. Now, your baby definitely had two ears, right? Definitely two ears. Okay. Yeah.
Gavin:
Please don’t be worried about the dog bite mark on your child’s face when you get home. And you, uh, I don’t know. I’m not a freaker outer, so I just take them at their word to be like, okay, I’m not gonna freak out. I’m not gonna freak out. But um, yeah, texting brings a whole new level of anxiety slash uh, I don’t know, context to be explored.
David:
You know what makes me more anxious than anything? Oh no. Is the new cocoa melon. Now I know you are so far beyond cocoa melon. You actually probably missed it at this point. What is cocoa melon? Coco Melon is like Is Coco Melon Bratt? Is Coco Melon Bratt like I don’t know what Bratt is. Are we is this like a boomer and a Gen X are like just trying to talk to each other? No, it it is it is the the animated show. You know, Paw Patrol’s really big right now, but like Coco Melon is mostly for the youngest, like two to four, very, very young. It’s like nursery rhymes and it’s all songs and it’s all AI generated and it’s all terrible. But my kids, it’s like crack to them. Anyway, I have said before the dad in Coco Melon is so fucking hot. Like now, wait a minute, is this animated? It’s all animated. These are cartoon people that I’m attracted to. Correct. Sexy cat uh dad on the cartoon. He’s got these huge hands, he’s like ginger hair. There’s a scene at the beach where he’s super hot. Anyway, that’s not the point. The point is Coco Melon has come out with a new show called Coco Melon Lane. And the idea is that these are all the same characters, a little bit older. It’s like it’s meant to like follow these kids who grew up with Coco Melon and try to make them watch it for another couple years. So they have dialogue now, there’s actual scenes, they still do songs and stuff, but all the kids are older, they all talk, where before the main character, JJ, was just this baby who said nothing. So it is it is a new updated version of the show. And I saw it on Netflix, and so I was like, oh, we should watch it. So we started watching it, and then the dad comes on screen, right? My my my bank dad. Yeah, totally. I’m so mad, Gavin. Did he not hot anymore? No, he’s not hot anymore. He’s conceivably the same dad, but the way they’ve animated him is just not as sexy. And and and has he put on weight? Has he lost his hair? Has he weight? He’s all the exact same. He’s just animated in a way that is that is unattractive to me. Now I hear what you’re you’re thinking. David, you’re a 44-year-old man complaining about the hotness of a cartoon character.
Gavin:
I don’t think there’s anything weird about it at all.
David:
Thank you. This is why we run the show. But I I I have issues, Coco Melon Lane. If you’re gonna bring back, and he was shirtless in this episode, he was at the beach again. I was like, and he just wasn’t hot. I was like, if you’re gonna make this show, and I I assume you’re making it for me, a gay dad, make the dad hot. The dads have to be hot always.
Gavin:
Do you think that it’s because Coco Melon had gay animators and Coco Melon Lane have straight animators? And so the straight dudes, the straight animators are it doesn’t register to them. I should make it maybe it’s the straights problem. What about the moms? I mean, I assume that this is the nuclear heteronormative family. It is, it is nuclear family.
David:
There is, but no well, uh yeah, but the the teacher, Mrs. Appleberry, she is like fine. She is like vaguely ethnic, she’s got this gorgeous body, she’s super nice, she’s funny, like she is super hot. But the dad, like the first dad had like these big hands, and he was just like, he just piercing green eyes, and it was just like everything. Um, I’m already embarrassed at the four minutes I’ve taken.
Gavin:
We have definitely taken more time on this than we did on much more important matters.
David:
But hey, this is the show. The show is cotton candy, people. It’s not it’s not spinach or anything healthy for you. It’s supposed to be funny, and then you’re gonna go.
Gavin:
I try to sneak in spinach and or try to sneak in broccoli to the avocados to the guacamole, and you are.
David:
Gavin’s the one who puts the puts the spinach in the smoothie, and you’re like, you know what? What is the green? Was it the green juice you made from the case?
Gavin:
Greenies, greenies, yep, back in the day, which would make them gag now.
David:
But so let me tell you this quick story before we.
Gavin:
Wait, do I get any stories here? Just there’s nothing on the outline.
David:
You keep going, keep going, keep going. There’s nothing on the outline. Um, so the an interesting thing happened in one of the gay groups. I don’t know if you saw this, so one of the gay dad groups, somebody had posted something along the lines of, hey dads, we are currently exploring our international options in case Trump becomes president.
SPEAKER_00:
Oh, yeah.
David:
What are your thoughts on whatever? And so my first thought was, you know, I imagine this comment section is gonna be rife with like all the bullshit you see on all the things, right? Like we’re like, well, Biden’s not better, and you know, all the things that happened. And I know Kamala’s now in the race, and um the you know, the election’s not for a couple months, it’s July 31st today, but I was like, I’m gonna open this because I too have been curious about an international exploration for our family’s safety, right? Yeah, and I was so pleasantly surprised that the entire comment section was answering this man’s question. Well, I know Portugal is this, and well, Spain has this. Well, I think it’s difficult for like it was people answering the question. Where if you’ve ever been on Facebook and somebody says, Hey guys, anybody know the the best taco place in town? The first comment is like, How dare you, bubble? You know, it’s just chaos, but really totally, but but but irrelevant negativity. But this thread was really helpful, constructive and it was really supportive and constructive and all that kind of thing. And this is something that are on is on the minds of a lot of gay dads, which is where where do our family safety come into question if Trump becomes fucking Supreme Glee?
Gavin:
I definitely wonder so often how often am I a frog in the boiling water and don’t realize it. And um, I mean, I’m not a reactionary person. I think good of people almost to a fault. And I I my reflex is to say, no, no, things, bad things wouldn’t happen were he re-elected. And then, I mean, crazy shit is going down in many states, and that could take away rights from my children, from me, from my partner, from my partner, from my family, from yours. I mean, I live in Connecticut and we’re a pretty solidly blue state, but that doesn’t mean it would remain that way. So, what is the advice? I mean, is everybody saying go to Portugal?
David:
Right? Yeah, no, but that’s what I mean. Is like, yeah, the frog in the boiling water is interesting. I remember the reason I am more on the let’s go sooner than later phase is I remember reading a quote somewhere in my experience where somebody was talking about um uh refugees from other countries going to different countries. And they were saying that like you can’t wait for it to get so bad that you have to leave because then it’s too late. You have to leave before it’s that, and that is a tricky timeline. Like, we’ve seen this throughout history about like when the only the only people who escape are the people who left before it got too bad. So that that plays in my head a lot when people are like, You’re being reactionary, it’s not gonna be a big deal for the haters.
Gavin:
But in hindsight, you weren’t being reactionary, yeah.
David:
You’re yeah, you know, and also watching Handmaids Tell does not help because that show is amazing, but also that show was perfectly exemplified like you gotta leave before it becomes the chaos. Anyway, I I don’t want to, I didn’t the the point was not like this is a little bit country. It’s a little bit of spinach. It’s a little bit of spinach. The point was like I was shocked, it should have been my something great that like a Facebook thread was useful and helpful to the original poster. But you know what? I have something useful and helpful. I have some spinach for you. It’s a dad hack of the week. Wow, you are on fire today, July 31st. I went to the beach this past weekend with friends of the show, Rob and Carl, and one of the hacks I remembered from going to the beach with kids, I was like, oh, this should be a dad hack of the week. It’s baby powder. Do you know the baby powder hack for beaches? No. So you know when you take your kids back from the beach and they’re covered in sand in the most disgusting places.
Gavin:
Uh and myself too. It’s not just taking babies. I mean, I am I this is totally relatable for no matter what age or size you are.
David:
Totally. We went to the beach many years ago and we were in the parking lot trying to get sand off our son, and this other family was next to us, and they say, Oh, do you want some baby powder? We were like, Why? And they were like, Oh, to get the sand off. And we were like, What do you mean? And she goes, put some baby powder in your hands and then just rub it on your kid’s skin wherever the sand is. And Gavin, the sand just falls off. I didn’t magical. Now it only works if the sand is dry. You can’t have like wet kids with baby powder, but it just put the baby powder anywhere there is dry sand and it all just falls off magically. It’s hack hack. It is like top-tier hack. Ultimately, that is awesome. Yeah. Wow. And now have you tried it on yourself? I have not tried it on myself, but I have tried it on children and it works. So I imagine it would work on an adult with hair, but I yeah, I yeah.
Gavin:
I bet, yo, yeah, the hair factor definitely gets in there. And then, of course, Johnson and Johnson, don’t they have like titanium or lead or something in their powder?
David:
Oh, I’m sure it’s killing the children in some way, but it’s more convenient to me.
Gavin:
So who cares? That’s what some people, some conspiracy uh theorists were saying a couple of years ago. Well, that is an awesome, awesome hack. You know what else is awesome? What? Our top three list. Gate three arcs. Top three list, three, two, one. So this week’s list is mine, and it is the top three things you would change about your kid. Now, there’s an awful lot of things that I went down a rabbit hole thinking, um, nitpicking this, that, and the other. And then I thought, let’s just keep it light and be like David, frankly. And just like three things that just annoy the shit out of me, okay? So, aside from my super thing, so it’s number four through infinity, is basically just don’t be like me. Just don’t be like me.
David:
Please don’t follow in my phone. Just be better. Just be like, please do not honor your father.
Gavin:
Just do everything that I say and ask you to do, but don’t ultimately be like me. Be more confident, be less insecure, be be more productive, be work harder, all the things. Okay. So that’s four through infinity, all right? But for me, number three is don’t pull on the cabinets. My son hops up on the counter to raid the cabinet or snack cabinet, basically, of chips and candy and candy and candy and candy. And he holds the cabinet to hoist himself up. And I am certain that cabinet is going to fall off the wall and crush him and cost me a lot of money to replace. And I tell him, please don’t pull on the cabinet, please don’t pull on the cabinet. I actually don’t mind that you climb on the counter. I used to do that as a kid too. Don’t pull on the cabinet. But he does it incessantly. So don’t pull on the cabinet. Number two, saying like. Stop fucking saying like, particularly my daughter, who’s a little older and in a like um world, and she just says like all the time when she’s talking. And it makes me the asshole because I’m like, stop saying like, stop saying like, stop saying like, stop saying like as she’s talking. And then of course it pisses her off. Understandably, it would piss me off too. But just stop saying like.
David:
It’s so okay, boomer, because I remember my dad when I was a kid saying, Stop saying like because I like said like everything like.
Gavin:
Yeah, it’s like universal. Number one, stop walking outside in your white socks. I don’t care if you’re barefoot and you track the dirt in. I just am tired of you going out there with your socks on. It drives me crazy, it ruins your socks. And so stop it. Stop, stop walking outside with your socks. It’s a very summertime thing, and obviously that’s a that’s a fresh wound right now.
David:
What about you, David? Um, so when I was coming up with these, I was just thinking of my kids in general, but then all three of them were my son. So this is I’m gonna show to my son a little bit. Sorry, bud. Yeah, sorry, Dud. Uh, and number three, my son is a dangerous combination of a close talker with really bad morning breath. He loves in the morning to cuddle in my bed and tell me secrets as close as he could get. Uh-huh. And it is about the most disgusting smell I’ve ever smelled in my entire life. So, one, being a close talker with morning breath. Um, speaking of smells, number two, he has the most insanely sensitive nose to where the second I take a bite of anything out of his range, he’ll go, What is that smell? What does that smell? He could smell a cookie a mile away. He’s like a shark. And so in the mornings, if I’m cooking a surprise like pancakes or something, the second he gets out of bed, he’s like, You’re making pancakes. I’m like, bitch, let some surprise be in the world. I mean, my God. Interesting. Maybe that’s a superpower. Anyway, it is a superpower. But you know what is not a superpower? Uh-oh. Is number one. Which is the thing I would change about my child is that I wish he could learn how to pee into the toilet and not around the toilet. This man just thinks the toilet is a general suggestion as to the direction of his urine. And I have to hold him. Sometimes I’ll stand behind him, I’ll point his head down. I say, When you pee, you stare at your penis the whole time, and you hold your penis the whole time. He likes to just take it out and look around at the sky and the birds as he’s with his hands on his hips, just like way. Like an old man at the gym, just just vaguely shooting urine everywhere. So that is something I would definitely change about him.
Gavin:
Uh, I’m I gotta say, that doesn’t change for a long time. Oh man. Oh my god, our bathroom. I know the way I have to get down on hands and knees to like wipe in places that I’m like, wow, this way as a kid. This does remind me of that. I it became very apparent to me that men are disgusting. When I was in college at one point and I was in this dormitory situation, it’s a long story, but we all had to like take turns cleaning, and it was um co-ed. And I remember hearing the one of the girls say to the other girls, okay, well, just remember you have to watch the walls because the boys pee all over them. And I thought, no, we duh. We probably do actually. Yeah. We’re monsters. We’re monsters.
David:
We’re fucking monsters. Well, how are we gonna be monsters next week? So next week I want to talk about what are the top three things that you like to do by your fucking self. So our guest this week is one of the biggest names in the gay parenting world, other than Gatriarchs, of course. Um, he’s a dad to three, a husband to one, and the founder of Gays with Kids, as well as the creator and head coach of the Gaze with Kids Academy. So, really, the only thing he doesn’t enjoy is time to himself, obviously. Please welcome to the show, Brian Rosenberg. Hey Brian. Hi, Brian.
SPEAKER_04:
Thank you very much for having me, and I appreciate that very nice uh welcome and intro.
David:
You’re very welcome. So, our first question always um, how have your kids driven you crazy today?
SPEAKER_04:
Uh, well, two of them are at sleepover camp. They actually go to the same camp I went to, and they’re gone for seven weeks. So they haven’t driven me crazy at all today. Seven weeks. Hold on. Seven weeks. Yes.
Gavin:
That uh that that’s a thing. That is definitely that’s prison, Brian.
David:
I think they’re in prison. Seven weeks is a really long time. I’ve never actually been to sleepaway camp. I know, uh Gabe, I think your kids have, but I always assumed it was like four days. No.
SPEAKER_04:
No, it’s like if you want them to get the full experience, the full, and you want them to like kind of Back being so grateful that they’re home again, they get the great shower, they get privacy, that they love you and miss you so much. It’s the best thing.
Gavin:
Uh, seven weeks. But now, what I want to know is they let your kids in after you had probably screwed up the place yourself, just as you’re well, you know, you just a few years ago.
SPEAKER_04:
It’s all new people. No one there knows. Actually, that’s not true. Up until last year, the woman, one of the women who was a counselor when I was a counselor in training, um, was still there. Sharon is her name. Last year was her first last year. So now I don’t know who there.
Gavin:
Have you graffitied anything in one of the topics? Is it still there? Did you find your your your signature or something?
SPEAKER_04:
I looked, I couldn’t, they didn’t really let us in the bunks, but I did sort of sneak into one anyways, and I couldn’t find where I thought I had written my name. But there was a um, they have about 15 or 20, we we do musicals, and I have absolutely no talent whatsoever. But my my cat and CIT year, we did a musical Bye bye Birdie, and um I was you can see my face and my name. And it’s as soon as you go to the old rec, what is now the old rec center, the first thing you see is this poster of Bye bye Birdie from my summer.
David:
Oh, wow. And you know what, you and Gavin share that no talent. So that’s really nice.
SPEAKER_00:
Absolutely. That’s why we’re here.
Gavin:
We all we only want no talent people to come on so that we’re the ones which shine brightly. I know several people who probably go to who send their kids to that very camp, I know of which you speak. And I’m curious, on a serious note, do you feel like you miss out by the kids being away for seven weeks, or does the good outweigh the bad?
SPEAKER_04:
No, the good so outweighs the bad. And the kids who I mean, honestly, the kids who stick around that if they go to day camp, maybe, but then they’re bored off their gourd. Uh, there’s nothing to do. Um, here they’re constant activities, and um, my son is the oldest age bunk, and so he loves having extra responsibilities and being a big shot. So, no, it is awesome. It is truly awesome. They will cry when we uh pick them up to come home.
David:
Yeah, which I used to do.
SPEAKER_04:
I did too.
David:
So I’ll I I bet if they took a black light to those bunks, they could find remnants of you. Do you know what I mean? Like I I I bet they could find it if they needed to.
SPEAKER_04:
I think you’re talking about different kinds of remnants, David. Oh, okay. Sorry, sorry.
David:
Um, so let’s go back a little bit. So uh we’ll get into gays with kids, but tell us you are a gay with kids. How did that happen? Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:
Um, so like most of us, it just it didn’t just happen overnight or accidentally. Um no, so um I never thought I was gonna become a dad, right? I’m I’ve been HIV positive for over 30 years now. I’ve been with my HIV negative husband for 31 years. And back when we met, you know, there were very few people were talking about fatherhood. For the most part, everyone was, you know, those of us living with HIV, it was like, when were we gonna die? I probably went to some 25, 30 funerals of guys in their 20s and 30s. Um, and then um the cocktail, the so-called cocktails came on. And for whatever reason, they worked for me. They didn’t work for everybody, we still lost friends, uh, but they worked for me. And uh within a few years we realized that our lives didn’t have to evolve just around my HIV status and going from one doctor’s appointment to another, and instead, we were gonna live. And so we moved to New York City, we had a lot of fun, um, and it was life became the exact having fun. And um eventually uh my husband saw how much I loved being with little kids, especially our nieces and nephews, but even like the little kids of good friends and whatnot. And he’s like, you know, at some point, I think if you’re not a dad, you’re gonna be not happy when you’re older.
Gavin:
That was a great way of manipulating you into what you wanted to do.
David:
And you know what? There’s plenty of reasons as you get older to be unhappy.
SPEAKER_04:
So this is true, this is true. So no, but we we said, yeah, let’s let’s let’s do it. And you know, talk to my doctor, my HIV doc, and he’s like, Yeah, you’re you’re just as likely to die from something else. Um, in fact, more likely to die from something else. You’ve got your HIV under control. So um we started looking into things. But this was so Levi, our oldest, is uh 15, and his twin sisters are 13 and a half, almost 14 actually. Uh so this is a while ago. And back then there were scant resources for gay men, uh, even fewer for gay men living with HIV to become dads. And I don’t think that there was a single decision. So we we said we’re gonna go for adoption, and uh turned out the first adoption that we had been paired with didn’t end up happening. Um, we actually were paired with a woman who had a baby, um, and that didn’t end up happening, and so my husband figured out how we could do surrogacy, and the goal was that we would both try, but his little guys didn’t swim, so the HIV positive guy became the biological parent. Um and so, but right after we signed that um they have a big deposit to the surrogacy agency, a non-refundable big deposit, we got a call three days later from our adoption agency telling us about a new baby who had just been born. And uh that was Levi. He was three days old, and we took him home two days later. Um, and then his twin sisters were born 17 months after him. So we had three kids under the age of two.
Gavin:
Holy shit.
SPEAKER_04:
And that was a lot.
Gavin:
Yeah, that’s that was a lot. That was a lot. That is not for wusses, that’s for sure.
David:
I was talking to the guy at Starbucks today who I think kind of flirts with me. Holy, totally separate story. It’s a married latte boy, kind of, and he was this little gay boy, but he was like, he’s seen me with my kids and my husband before, so he knows we’re gay. And he was like, Oh, like I I love kids, and I have this nephew, and he’s really cool, and he was showing me pictures, and he’s like, it’s so fun to babysit them. And it’s getting a little harder that he’s 11 months old. And I was like, baby, baby, you have no idea one and a half when that little motherfucker can walk and unlock cabinets. Uh-huh. You are so, but then the the the thought of that times three with you? Yeah. Was your was your house just a prison of locks and diapers?
SPEAKER_04:
So interesting, it was, yeah, diaper. Counted the diapers. I forget how many we went through, but some ridiculous number. Levi was actually, so this is why. So Levi was truly one of the easiest babies in the world. Like he would go at three months of age, he slept through the night. He would eat whatever we gave him. He was always smiling, really cried. He wanted to help, like, with laundry and vacuuming, like since he was little. And everyone used to say, Oh, you guys are so lucky. And we’re like, Yes, we’re so lucky. And then we close the door behind them. We’re like, we’re not lucky, we’re just freaking awesome dads. Then the girls came and we learned we were not freaking awesome dads. We were just lucky. They had acid reflux. They uh every meal you knew they were gonna throw up. The question was where and when. And so, like, we had we would cover the place with towels, and then sure enough, Ella would turn around in a different direction and projectile bomb it, and we she’d get all of the dog or something. It was oh my god.
David:
I remember buying one of those like supreme mega packs of like yellow car washing towels from Costco, and I they were just littered throughout my house. There were piles of them in every corner because I was like, where’s the puke? Where is it coming? Where is it gonna be? Now, question for your 15-year-old, you said he was so easy, laundry, yeah, didn’t complain. He’s 15 now. Is it the same?
SPEAKER_04:
Yeah, actually, it really is. He’s one of the whoa, wow. Maybe you are the best dad. Maybe you’re the right dad. We’re totally lucky. Now, this is just we’re just lucky. He is unbelievably easy and he he just helps out. Honestly, like this is the what you did what you didn’t ask is what do we miss about him? Well, Levi’s in charge of the household. When things break, he’s usually the one fixing it. Nice. So um, yeah, and this technology technology thing, um, he would be the one setting me up. So, yeah, that’s what I miss is he’s not around to take care of the house and stuff.
David:
And don’t worry, Brian, we are the lowest level of journalists. We will not ask you a lot of really great questions.
Gavin:
Because of our authenticity, we’re America’s finest news source for sure. But that, um, and then um, have the girls gotten easier, or do at age 13, do they still projectile vomit everywhere?
SPEAKER_04:
So they don’t projectile vomit, but you know, we do have something called puberty. And there’s a big difference between boys and girls. On top of that, one of our daughters, so the reason only two of our three kids go to the camp I went to is our other daughter, Ella, has autism and some a host of other issues. So um, she actually did go to a camp. There’s a regular camp in Maine that she went to, and for the first three weeks, they have a special ed program where kids can come with all kinds of special ed. I will tell you, for what we paid for Levi and Sandy for seven weeks is what we paid for Ella for three weeks.
Gavin:
So did Ella have a good time or is she back? She does.
SPEAKER_04:
This was her, yeah, she’s back. This was her third time, third time we’re going there. She loves it, has a great time. A couple of friends that go every year. Um so but the girls are just a whole nother challenge just because of the whole puberty thing. You know, Sadie is one minute lovely, lovey, lovey, cuddly, like touchy holdy, and the next minute she is calling me. I can’t even repeat here.
David:
Oh no, this is the place to say it. Are you sure? Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. I I think it’s it’s like that. The your your hardest kid is always your last because it’s like, I think we’re done having kids. My son was really easy, mostly, you know, normal, normal things, but it was mostly easy. And my daughter was like, oh, get ready for me to fuck your life. I mean, ready for it. And I was like, I think we’re done having kids. What do you think? Do you think we’re done?
SPEAKER_03:
Umberty, yeah.
Gavin:
So, Brian, you um are the the the epitome of the gays with kids, but how did you open up what a great hashtag to uh to the entire world of gays with kids?
SPEAKER_04:
Uh so honestly, uh what happened was so my husband’s not American, he’s Dutch, and he had not been able to have a uh get a visa. I couldn’t support him. Um so we actually, right after we became dads, we had to leave the country. Um, and Canada recognized our relationship, and I was able to get a green card through a former employer. So we moved to Toronto, and then the girls were born, and so we brought them to Toronto, and we had you know three kids under the age of two, one of whom was black, and we had a chihuahua, because of course, and wherever we went, we were like the circus freaks. Like people came up to us all the time. And after a while, I was like, you know, just over, like, come on. I you don’t ask other people how their family came to be, or is it mom’s day off, or whatever it is. So I was just like, after a while, sort of over it. And then, like, wherever we went, the pediatrician, the daycare, parents of other kids of the daycare. Again, we’re having to explain our family and how we came to be. And at first it’s cute, but after a while, I was like, over it. And I just want to hang out with other dads, gay dads, because you guys would understand, and we wouldn’t have to even cover that, right? We just go right into fatherhood. So I said, you know what? Let me look around and see. There’s got to be some organization, the club I could belong to where I’ll be with other gay dads. And I was shocked that there was absolutely nothing. So I convinced my husband. We it’s funny because I can’t put the name Gays with Kids, and that same year there was a TV show launching called Guys with Kids. Oh, I think I remember 15 years ago. Oh, yeah, exactly. It was like 11 years ago. It was one season. I don’t even think it lasted the full season. It had three, it was about three guys in their 30s who were dads who were trying to be cool and not have to grow up.
Gavin:
I remember I remember the like the the advertising uh marketing campaign for it, and it was three hot guys with baby bjorns pushing strollers, I think. Yeah, and it was like there was definitely like three different races and covering faces, and probably not gay, but lots of jokes about gay. No doubt, no doubt. Oh, I do vaguely remember that. Wow, that’s amazing. So I was happy I can’t remember anything else, but I do remember that marketing campaign.
SPEAKER_04:
I uh I remember that um the black guy’s wife was the girl from Cosby, the younger sister.
SPEAKER_00:
Okay.
SPEAKER_04:
Um that’s what I so like that’s how long ago that was. But anyway, so fortunately that show did not last because I don’t know if we could have continued with the name Gaze with Kids if there was a TV show on called Guys with Kids. Right. Um and so but I started it, and we started by telling stories. And I I like would do searches on Facebook and on the web to see if there were any gay guys writing about their experiences, experiences. I approached the two or three that I found and got them to write for us, and that’s how we were born.
David:
Yeah, amazing. And now there’s so many. Like, you know, when it was kind of similar when we started this show where I that I really there was remnants of of gay dads or gay families podcasts, but there was literally no gay dad comedy, like a comedy forward podcast. And now there are other gay parent uh podcasts. There’s obviously gays with kids, there’s men having babies, there’s gay fathers on Facebook. There’s like so much has come, which is so amazing. But like you said, when you started, there was nothing, and so much value is in just talking with each other and trading information. So, how did that develop into the academy?
SPEAKER_04:
Uh, so what happened was we’re so we were telling stories, and primarily the stories would be anecdotally from the viewpoint of the dads. For example, meet Brian and Bird together since 1993. Um, they uh, you know, when they first met, they didn’t think Father Who was in the cards for them, Brian’s HIV positive, then they found out they could become dads. And today they have three kids through adoption in Saragacy, and they just you know can’t believe that that’s their lives today, and it’s awesome. Stuff that would make your heart go pitter-patter, but nothing as I like to say, you could take to the bank. So about four years ago, some guy like messages me on Facebook and he’s like, Hey, can we chat? And I’m like, Yes, but you know, I’m married.
David:
Like I’m listening.
SPEAKER_04:
I’m like, okay, sure. So we ended up chatting, and he said, I just want to tell you, I want to say thank you to you because you’ve inspired me. And if you’ve inspired me, you’ve inspired countless others. I got a little for Clemt, and when I could compose myself, I said, Well, thank you so much. I really appreciate that. I said, So tell me, what are you gonna do? And he literally put his hands up in the air and he’s like, I don’t know, I guess I’ll have to wing it. And I had like, oh my God, I haven’t helped anyone become dads. Not to downplay the importance of inspiring people, but I hadn’t actually helped anyone. And that’s when I came up with the thought, the concept of GWK Academy, which where we actually take you through what your options are, and then once you figure out what your option is, take you through everything you need to know about that journey before you get started.
Gavin:
That you’re giving back for sure, and that’s a fantastic service. How has it been around? How long has it been around and how’s it going?
SPEAKER_04:
It’s gone really well. So we started by honestly, we charge a little bit of money to for people to come in because all this content is amazing. We also do free coaching, um, and I connect people with mentors, guys who’ve gone through the same path that you’re about to undertake, but much more recently. Um, and also vetted family building partners. But before Father’s Day, I I just wasn’t happy with the number of people coming into GWK Academy. So on Father’s Day, we said, you know what, we’re gonna make it free. The way I make my money from this is by lead generation to those who are going on a surrogacy journey. So for the surgacy agencies and IVF clinics, I don’t for people doing an adoption or foster care. Um, but um, so I said, let’s just make it free. And it was like the floodgates opened up. Um and so I think we’ve had like 85 people enroll in the last 35 days alone. So I love it. It’s awesome. And it’s amazing. I hope we become known as the first stop on any gay equipment or any to fatherhood.
David:
Yeah, but that’s the that’s the ugly truth about creating families this way is that it’s really expensive. Even if you’re just going to adopt a child, which not just, that’s a terrible way of saying that, but like even if you’re gonna adopt a child, in my mind, before I got any information, I thought, oh, adopting is free, and then surrogacy is kind of expensive. I had no idea how expensive it was, and I think that is so prohibitive of so many families. And so I think that’s probably an interesting gate to open, is that probably small cost. And then you’re like, hey guys, if you want to do surrogacy, do you have$150,000 that you’re ready to light on fire? Um, but so I’m curious from your point of view, since you see all these kind of pre-dads, right? These guys who want to be dads, do you notice like one common thing that they are just wrong about before they come into contact with kind of the realities? Like, what is the one thing that they get wrong about becoming dads?
SPEAKER_04:
I think I think to me, it’s just the order in which they want to do things. And um, everybody goes, What’s the first thing you do if you want to become a parent? If you want to do anything, what’s the first thing you do if you want to learn about something? You go on Google and you do research. That is so not what I tell people is Google is not always your friend. I can’t tell you. I’ve talked to people who’ve gone down rabbit holes at two in the morning because someone said something. So I’d say it’s you gotta find trusted resources. And to be honest with you, there are very, very few trusted resources, and there’s only one that I know of that tells you about foster care, adoption, and sarcacy. And that’s CWK Academy. And so, like, I just feel bad for the people who’ve done all this, spent all this time and gone to websites. And how do you know which website is even LGBTQ plus competent? And how do you know who’s got the latest and greatest? And how do you know who’s got your best interests in mind, etc.? So yeah.
David:
So let me ask you this, and I we can cut this if if you want. But like, so you clearly said you’re clearly throwing a little shade on men having babies. Is there because to me, that is that is how I came into certain like this world is I went to a men having babies conference, which I thought had all those things. Is there something I’m missing?
SPEAKER_04:
So here’s the thing with a Manhattan. And so I have to start by saying for 20 years before I started engaging with kids, I produced conferences and events for Global Technology Industry Association. So no one understands the value of conferences more than me. But here’s what happens at a Manhattan Babies conference. You go and you get all this content thrown at you. You’re overwhelmed, and God forbid, God forbid, you give your name and contact details to any of the sponsors. The sponsors are all Sargasy agencies and IDFs. That’s marketing teams. Those marketing teams will not let you alone until you either join, come with them, or tell them, please stop bugging me. I’m not going to use you. And so like I just think it’s completely overwhelming. And in ideal world, I’ve actually talked to people who said they’re going to a Men Happy Babies Conference. I said, great, great. First, go through GWK Academy’s Surrogacy and IVF course. Because I want you to understand how it all works before you go to the Men Having Babies Conference, before you talk to people who’ve already gone on a surrogacy journey, before you talk to doctors and surrogacy agencies. Because you’ll understand what’s going on. And the people that I spoke to who then went to a Med Having Babies Conference had a much, much better experience. Yeah.
David:
Yeah, I agree that that the first step should be understanding how the process works in the various kind of lanes that you’re choosing. Because we went into that that weekend conference thinking we were going to do surrogacy. And when we left, we were like, oh, we fucking can’t afford it. So what’s the fucking point? I have all these egg donor brochures, but like we can’t afford it. But I will say the most valuable thing there, which I think is probably what you provide as well, and it uh how you initially started, which was going to the panels and hearing dads tell their story to us was I remember so we were listening to an adoption panel, and then we went to like a single dad who did surrogacy panel, and just hearing there was something magical about knowing that it could actually happen. I think I walked in that conference being like, gays can’t really be dads, right? This isn’t really happened. And then seeing somebody on stage with their infant saying, Hey, here’s how my story. And I was like, Oh, fuck, it is possible. So I do agree that, like, and and some of the other podcasts that we’ve talked to uh try to do the same thing where it’s like walk in here with all your quote unquote dumb questions and let us talk to you about what it even looks like. Yeah, and then from there, because yeah, you’re right. I’m not you don’t walk into that conference being like, I’m ready to pick up a fertility doctor. No, you’re right. No, you’re not.
SPEAKER_04:
You’re not. You’re just finding for a lot of people, it’s the very first step that they do because they’ve everyone knows about these conferences they’ve been around for a very long time. So yeah, I would say don’t go to the conference first, go to a GWK Academy. It’s free, so it doesn’t hurt you to do that. And then you can even, I’m happy to talk to people about organizing. Oh, which Sargasy agencies might be good for you, which IBF clinics might be good. And by the way, I do believe you should check with your IBF doctor first, get that clinic done, then figure out your agency, et cetera. So yeah.
Gavin:
Interesting. And also, if you go to the Men Having Babies conference, just don’t hand out your email willy-nilly because those marketing sharks will come after you. Give Gabin’s information.
David:
I’ll if you guys are interested, DM me. I’ll give Gabin’s first last name, I’ll give him his social security number just so they hound him. Easy to say.
SPEAKER_04:
Gavin, I have to ask you a question. Have you always been Gabin, not Gavin?
Gavin:
I know. Let me tell you, you are you are picking a first-grade scab of trauma, that’s for sure. I am I am Gabin Knox Lodge IV, and there is no money or royalty involved. But there have been four generations of Gavens having to uh correct people every day of their lives with my pronunciation. And yes, being called gay Gavin, gay Gavin in first grade, I mean, let me tell you, that kept me closeted for a really long time because I was really trying to lash out against it.
David:
His name is in a different tax bracket than he is. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. His his name owns multiple boats. The real Gavin? Yeah, yes.
Gavin:
And I live in New England, and occasionally people who are really historically inclined are like, oh, are you of the Boston Brahmin lodges? Right. I’m like, no, no, no, no, no. I’m from the White Trash Lodges who came from North Carolina to Indiana and eventually made their ways to Colorado. But anyway. Is there a fifth? Uh um, no, there was um that that’s funny that you bring that up. So I have two kids and we did surrogacy, and the first child is biologically mine, and the second is biologically my partner’s, and I was the one driving the bus, and I there was, I have to say, for probably most of the pregnancy, or maybe I had given it up by that point, but I I thought, well, of course there’s gonna be Gabe Knox Lage the fifth. And then it started to feel really, really selfish because it was biologically mine, and I felt like we were it, I was making it all about myself. And then also I matured a little bit and thought, you know, this is archaic and it might be burdening my kids with something that they don’t necessarily need to know. And furthermore, it skipped a generation in my um in my line. Um, so technically, I’m I would be the fifth, but it skipped a generation. And so I kind of thought, you know what, if my kids want to have a Gabon Knox Lodge of the fifth, they can do it. And that would be a lovely tribute, but they don’t need to feel like the albatross around their neck because of it.
SPEAKER_04:
I might, you know what, I might, I wish I had another kid, Kevin, because I think I would use that name.
David:
Yeah. And you should use the whole name too. Gabin Knox, like the whole thing. And then just send him a send him a birth announcement, just with no return address. So you’ve been with your husband for what, 31 wonderful years. 30 wonderful years. All right, so I have a question for you. For all the people out there, the beginning stages of relationships are single. What is the secret to a good long-term relationship?
SPEAKER_04:
I’m sorry, but I used are you supposed to stop by saying there is no way, Brian? Look at you. There’s no way you can’t.
David:
Yes, there is no. I don’t believe it.
Gavin:
I don’t mind. I saw the notes, I couldn’t believe it. Wow.
SPEAKER_04:
We’re not even going to pretend. Okay. Um sorry, what was your question?
David:
My question was what what’s the secret to red ship lasting that long?
SPEAKER_04:
So here’s what I say. My husband loves to cook. He has loved to cook ever since we met him, and I love to eat whatever he serves me. That’s very sweet.
Gavin:
Now I’m curious on those lines because we tend to be a household of one is the one is the primary cooker and the other is the primary, well, sometimes dish doer. But I I feel like somebody who goes to the effort of creating a meal should always be thanked. And it has been sometimes an issue in the family to be like, what? I mean, like, why why would you do this if you have to be thanked? Gavin, do you need applause as a former actor? I mean, come on. I’m like, no, I think it’s a common courtesy to thank people, especially for cooking. So anyway, do you and your kids always say toast or thank?
SPEAKER_04:
We start every meal saying thank you so much. Yeah, whoever, and if I go out and buy, you know, I can’t cook at all. I cooked our very the very first time um Fernar hung out, I invited him over to cook and he had to rescue me from the meal, or the rescue of the meal from me, I should say. Um and so I can’t cook, I don’t have the patience for it, et cetera. So but if I go out to dick to get bring the dinner, bring it home. Thank you, Daddy, for going. No one calls me daddy anymore, it’s dad, but um, thank you, dad, for going out, or for it’ll say thanks for getting out. Yeah, we we do that all the time.
Gavin:
I think thanking is very important. And uh as David just barfs um at hearing me say that for the nine-millionth time. I’m curious, does Fur what did is Ferd uh Papa, or how did you do your so we just chose what we called our own dad?
SPEAKER_04:
So he starts called his dad Pa or Papa, and I called mine dad, daddy, dad.
David:
So speaking of uh parenting, we always like to ask this question uh towards the end of the interview, which is your parenting merit badge, how’d you get it? I’ll never forget the time when blank.
SPEAKER_04:
We had the three kids on a small plane, it was a Porter Airlines, we were living in Toronto at the time, coming to Boston, so it was like two and two seats. I had one of the girls had a very dirty diaper just as soon as we got in the plane. I was holding her, I could feel it coming out of her butt. And um be after we took off, as soon as we took off, I got up to change a diaper, I went in the bathroom. I couldn’t even fit my body in the bathroom alone. There’s a small plane, let alone it’s a small plane.
Gavin:
Yeah, there are small plane.
SPEAKER_04:
So I found a road, there was no one sitting in it. I took her to there with the diaper bag, and as I’m changing her diaper, and it was it was very full. The gay uh flight attendant, who was clearly one of those who believed that gay men should not be dads, right? He was really pissy towards us. He was not happy, he was not impressed to see two men, two gay men with three kids. He was not happy with us at all. And he got on the flout so he could say, excuse me, there’s an awful odor coming from row six. So would everyone please turn your fans on? And I’m standing up in the plane at row, like obviously at row six, changing Sadie Sniper. So yeah.
David:
What a vicious cunt on phenomenon. What an awesome. He didn’t even like come up to you. He made a public declaration.
Gavin:
Yeah, yeah. Wow. Was there any recourse? Did anybody say, hey, by the way, no problem?
SPEAKER_04:
Or I just no, but I just like looked up at everyone and like, what do you want me to do? LOD shit. Yeah.
Gavin:
That’s amazing. Wow.
David:
That is one of those things they don’t put in the parenting brochures. How many times you will hold your child and feel the feces coming out of their butt while you’re holding them. Yes, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:
That was particularly gross.
David:
Yeah. That’s amazing. I mean, and and and with that elegant thing, we have to say goodbye. Thank you so much for joining us on our stupid little podcast. You are amazing.
SPEAKER_04:
Oh, thank you for having me. I enjoyed this, and I appreciate I love the visibility you guys give to dads as well. I don’t think there could be enough of us, so I appreciate it.
Gavin:
Awesome. Thank you, Brian. I thank you. Why something great this week is TV? Man, I love TV. And as much as I try to limit um my kids from all of their screen time, which is, you know, unending, I will say my daughter is has she’s been working her way through lots of TV series. Over like the last year or so, she’s like, she’s latched on to certain shows. Young Sheldon, hilarious show. Now she’s working her way through Modern Family. So part of my something great also is just playing Modern Family because Modern Family is a great fucking show. It is so good, hilarious, sometimes so irreverent. They get away with stuff that if they were written in 2024, you’re kind of like, not sure they could have written that right now, but it’s still funny. So funny. And being able to sit and laugh with my kid over a TV show is something great. So I even I stop fighting the need to be like, you need to be productive, go outside and read a book. It’s fun to watch Modern Family in the middle of the summer with your daughter. What about you?
David:
Is that your normal voice? Is that your dad voice? It’s kind of like Kermit the Frog, but a little angrier and a little non-union. Um My Something Great is uh a little arts focused. So one of the kind of things that you do as an artist, um, if you’re not an artist, just skip ahead, is that you have to give back. You have to, you have to kind of teach the people behind, you have to kind of bring them with you. And so um there was a guy at my gym who knew that I was uh in the business I’m in, and he reached out to me and he said, Would you mind having coffee with me? I just have some questions about I’ve always wanted to be a stand-up comic, which I am not, but uh, you know, I’m in the the arts, and so I was a sure. And so had this meeting with him, and he’s just this regular guy, and he wanted to do stand-up comedy, and so I had a conversation with him. I made some suggestions. I said, You should take a class, you should you know, be brave and try to do something that’s scary. And then I didn’t really hear from him for a couple months, and you know, I saw him at the gym every once in a while, and then he sent me another email. He said, Hey, would you mind going to coffee with me again? Um, I want to show you something. And this man took my advice, he took a class, and he did a stand-up comedy routine at this at this club in New York City, and he showed me the video, and it was fucking hilarious. And he was like, I’m so thankful that you helped me and now I’m really into this and whatever. And it was just this really wonderful thing that I think happens in the arts a lot where you you have to do good and you have to keep giving back to people behind you because you want people to do that to you. And I always love when somebody kind of takes my advice and it’s it it works out versus you know, crash and dodge that bullet. And it was just so nice. It was nice to like see somebody go for it and do really well. And it felt good that they thanked me for that. That was nice for my ego. So, anyway, that was my something great was uh remember yeah, remember to thank people, go chase your dreams, and remember to thank the people who told you to chase their dreams. Thank us especially because we bring so much joy to your lives. Every week we give you about 50 minutes of our most 40%. So we thank you. And that is our show. If you have any comments, suggestions, or general compliments, you can email us at catriarchspodcast at gmail.com.
Gavin:
Or you can DM us on Instagram. We are at Gatriarchspodcast. On the internet, David is at DavidFNVON everywhere, and Gavin is at Gavin Lodge on a stand-up stage.
David:
Please leave us a sexy five star review wherever you get your podcasts.
Gavin:
Thanks, and we’ll poop in your mouth next time on another episode of Gatriarchs!