Full Transcript
Hey guys, before we begin this week’s episode, I just wanted to give you a heads up. We had a little bit of a technical issue with Gavin’s microphone this week. We know Gavin ruins a lot of things. Um, you’ll hear his voice kind of come in and out a few times. You know, this is a low-rent podcast with low-rent hosts, and you are low-rent listener. Enjoy the show.
Gavin:
Okay. Can I start?
David:
Sure. Again, is it funny?
Gavin:
And this is Gatriarchs.
David:
But but but you didn’t answer my question. And that is motherfucking Gatriarchs.
Gavin:
It’s still August. It’s still summertime, right? We’re still in some remote. Just barely. Just barely. Just the tip.
David:
Just we’re kissing, we’re kissing September from behind. Do you know what I mean? Just the nape of the neck. We’re just, we’re just just sweet little kisses behind the ear.
Gavin:
But I know that you and I, and everybody we know, um, and all of our listener were at least someone tied into the convention this week, which uh, spoiler alert, we record right after stuff, and we listened to the Queen Kamala Harris speak last night, and she was, of course, fabulous. But so often there are all these quotes that come out that are so often about parenting, right? And it is a simple like, here’s what we believe in, and it is a lesson for parenting. And so there were three in particular ones that I wanted to point out. And um eventually I’ll write a huge show note blog post that’s gonna go viral and send millions of viewers our way, including Kamala and Michelle and Hills and all the people all of us. But um, for instance, and these are I’m sure that everybody heard these, but for instance, Michelle Obama talking about Kamala’s mother saying, Don’t complain about it, do something. I mean, I’m so glad that I forced my kids to watch an awful lot of the conventions so that I can be like, Remember when Michelle Obama said that?
David:
So that reminds me of don’t boo, vote. Oh, there was that. There was that. That was that was my Barry Obama.
Gavin:
I can’t wait for you to say that to your kids, though, right? When they’re like, what, booing your macaroni and cheese?
David:
And how the looks on. My son did tell me the other day they’re having like a summer blowout party at school. And of course, you have to sign up for things because you have to constantly feed the school machine. And I would I always go for the mac and cheese because I made a homemade bechamel sauce.
SPEAKER_02:
I’m very proud of it.
David:
And the poster goes up and I’m about to write on it. And my son grabs my hand and says, Wait, wait, wait, dad, don’t sign up for the mac and cheese. And I was like, Are you fucking kidding me? I was like, I make a homemade bechamel sauce. What are you talking about? He’s like, I don’t really like it. And I was like, you know what? You can go fuck yourself. So anyway, sorry, continue.
Gavin:
Well, uh, I mean, I want to double down. When please report back to us when your kids boo you and you say directly to them, don’t boo boo. I want to I want to see if it’s if you get as a big eye roll as when I say to my daughter, don’t complain about it, do something. Um, Barack spoke about their family values and that his um that his mother-in-law’s family values are just like a good card game, hanging out with friends, and a good meal. And I’m reminded, like, it is the simple shit that we all just need to focus on, right? Not like fabulous vacations, although please somebody take me to Switzerland. And um, and spending money, it’s about like that’s why we have kids is to just like spend money, sit around. Sit around and have a meal and some laughs, right?
David:
Yeah, I will say that like my husband and I were talking about this yesterday. The you know, morning uh on school days, it’s like you get about an hour and a half in the morning and it’s all about moving to the next thing. Let’s get dressed, let’s go downstairs, let’s eat breakfast, let’s put on our shoes, let’s get rid of our backpacks. And we don’t actually get to enjoy our kids at all. And those days where we just get to like lay in bed and laugh and tickle and talk about things and do silly voices, like those are actually pretty great.
Gavin:
Uh-huh. Yeah.
David:
It’s I have no joke there. It’s just that’s that’s great.
Gavin:
That was the least funny thing you’ve ever said. But glad you were here for it. And then also, um, last night, Kamala just said, never let anyone tell you who you are, show them who you are. That was more wisdom from her mom, apparently. I mean, I’m here for Mrs. Harris’s uh book of mommy quotes, you know? So never let anyone tell you who you are, show them who you are.
David:
I mean who are you, Gavin? Who do you show people you are?
Gavin:
Can you just tell me who I am? Because that would be so much easier.
David:
Well, we were having a conversation prior to this about you interrupting everyone. So um that’s I think that’s how how the world, all of our listener on Gatriarchs, know you as the interrupter in chief.
Gavin:
Listen, every pat it this is my my new challenge to myself is to ask a question and then shut- Shut the fuck up.
David:
Well, you know what interrupted me recently is I was. Yeah. So I was on a trip recently. I was on an airplane, as we know. I’ve been flying a lot lately. And my son, I was sitting next to my son and he was iPading. So I was like, okay, maybe I’m gonna actually watch some TV on a plane. Like it’s been a decade since I’ve been able to do that. And so I’m looking for new comedies I haven’t seen. I was doing some research and I was like, oh, here’s this new show. It’s called Colin from Accounting. It’s a uh show from overseas. Yeah, yeah. Oh, and the very opening of the show has this woman walking across the street in front of this car, and she flashes her tit at this guy. That’s kind of like the impetus for these two people meeting. Okay. Babe, they showed the tit on the on a United airplane flight. And I was like panicked, and I’m like, hey, my first thought was who are people around me that they’re gonna think I’m watching porn, straight porn, and then I’m gonna have to explain to them that you know.
Gavin:
But then God no, of course not.
David:
But then I’m thinking about this the whole time, thinking about like, oh god, who saw this or whatever? And then I get a tap on my shoulder and it’s my son. And he’s like, What was that? And I said, So now I’m like dumb. I’m like, what do you mean? He’s like, That lady, she was she just naked. And I was like, No, you you missed he fucking saw it. He totally saw it. I just am show shocked. I thought all movies were like they took out all the nudity that they do not ununited, by the way. Episode one of season one of Colin from Accounting has basically straight porn in it.
Gavin:
So enjoy and booking my flight ununited on the opposite end of the spectrum, not straight porn, but gays.
David:
Um, I was at a this will surprise you, you sitting down, kids’ birthday party last weekend, because it is all I fucking do. And so we’re at this place, and it’s the same people, and I’m talking the same daycare parents, and we’re saying the same conversations, and then I see two guys walk in with twins who are not the same, like who who like there’s just there was just gay dad vibes. And we’ve talked we talked about this on a previous episode where we were talking about gay dads or waiting for their wives, right? There’s always the like when you see two dads with babies or a kid, you’re like, are they waiting for their wives or are they gay dads? And I the whole time I’m trying to like, I don’t know, ruffle my feathers in a peacocky way to be like, hey, I’m a gay dad too. But like there’s no virtue signaling but sexual system. I mean, like, what am I supposed to do? But I all I wanted to do was be like, hey, are you gay dads? Because I’m a gay dad, and I, you know, high-five each other or you know, do whatever gay dads do. But it was so weird because they I’m sure they saw me like clocking them and they were clocking me, and I think we were both having the same conversation. But what what am I supposed to do? Go up there and be like, are you gay dad? Like, no, fuck no, bro. It was so weird, but I was like, I wish we could like be gay dads at this place together, but um but you never got to the bottom of that, huh? No, I we were just eyeing each other the whole time, which to me says they are gay dads and I’m a gay dad, and they either thought I was hitting on them or also a gay dad. But I never like which is fine, just I should have just walked up to them and said something, but I’m a hypocrite also, obviously, and also a coward.
Gavin:
Well, oh, I think just walking up to somebody and saying, Hey, are you down with with I I don’t know smoking pole? Yeah, yeah, basically. Are you down with that? And uh that’s gonna be really awkward, but I invite you to do so the next time because that’s gonna be fantastic.
David:
You know what I’m not down with? Tell me the top three list.
Gavin:
Gatriarchs, top three list, three, two, one.
David:
I I don’t know if you know this about me because as we’ve said many times on the show, we don’t know each other even a little bit. Don’t know each other. But right. When you suggested this topic, I wanted to fly to Connecticut and punch you in the face. I was like, how dare you speak ill of anything fall? So fall related. The top three list was your list, and it was the top three things you hate about PSL seasonslash fall, right? Yeah, yep. But that’s exactly how. I have three things. I do have three things. All right.
Gavin:
So well, so here maybe this will give you some more context about the things that annoy me um about uh the PL hashtag PSLVibes slash fall, right? Okay, so um number three for me is ultimately the disappointment of a pumpkin spice latte. Have you had a pumpkin spice latte in the last decade? Many. They’re disgusting. I mean, they’re sweet. Okay, they’re disgusting. They’re they’re uh do you actually enjoy the flavor? Do you drink them year round? I get one on my birthday because my birthday is at the end of September. And I think, oh, I’m gonna do this, and I um and I think nope, I can wait another year for this.
David:
When I make like French toast or banana bread or anything, instead of putting cinnamon in, I put pumpkin spice in. Always. Gag. I’m gagging.
Gavin:
I’m gagging not in a good way. Um number two, the frenzy of performative football fandom. I find myself pretending to give a shit about food for the next few months. And admittedly, I want to be invited to my friends’ Patriots Patriots or that’s football, right? Yes, Patriots games and whatnot. That we all get wrapped up in performative football fandom drives me nuts, right? Number one, people fall is my favorite season because it’s everybody’s season. So don’t try to own loving fall because it’s just annoying. We all love fall. Don’t try to make it your own. It’s all of ours. Stop it with the my favorite time of year. It’s just so cozy. Like, find something else to to to you know, love because fall is all of ours. Don’t try to own it. Um, how about you, David?
David:
Uh, it’s so funny because you are a non-fall person. I am a fall person. Like, I am I am so gay for all the chunky sweaters and the the moon boots and everything. But we have some crossover on our list, which is very exciting. So, uh, and number three for me, the thing I hate about fall, crowds. Uh, why is everything so everyone goes apple picking? Everyone does the things, and I’m like, no, I want nobody to be around me. Um please, please. Uh, number two, I don’t think I can say this anymore, but Indian summer. Do you know what that is? Have you heard of that before?
Gavin:
Yeah.
David:
Where it’s like that last, like in Colorado, of course. Okay, so it’s basically for those of you who don’t know, it’s like the weather starts getting a little chilly, a little crispy, a little wonderful, and then there’s just a random week where it’s fucking balls-ass hot, and it totally destroys the vibes. So that one random hot week, not interested.
Gavin:
And number one, it is way too hot for your flannel, and it’s too hot to drink a public pumpkin spice latte, and it is to be on a soccer field slash football field. Yeah, I’m with you. I’m with you.
David:
I’m always iced. Everything is iced for me. I don’t think I’ve had a hot drink in 20 years. Um, I get iced pumpkin spice latte. I get iced coffee, I get this. Anyway, uh, and number one, it is the bane of my existence are non-fall people loving fall. The people who don’t worship fall year round to suddenly wear their buffalo plaid and go apple picking just for their gram. No, bitch, you are not a real fall person. I want real fall people around me at all times.
Gavin:
Autumnal authenticity, please. Yes.
David:
Um, all right. Okay, so that was your list question? Sure was. What’s our list next week? Oh next finally, he is cornered. No, bitch. I have a I have a I have 20 uh ideas in my in my notes. Okay. Okay, so next week, our top three list is gonna be top three sounds. Other than my wonderful voice.
Gavin:
Okay. Our next guest has taken his people skills, diplomacy, and charm away from show business and put it into interior design, where he’s now a celebrated visionary pursued by what? Architectural digest and every single DIY show on cable TV. Is cable TV a thing anymore? It is, right? Anyway, welcome to this daddy, Michael Angelos. Thank you for joining us.
SPEAKER_00:
Hi, I wish I was as glamorous as you just made me sound. Right?
David:
It’s a good intro. We like to intro our guests really, we like to build them up and then knock them down throughout the interview. Oh, good.
SPEAKER_00:
I’m used to the knocking down part. Great.
Gavin:
Well, speaking of the knocking down, then I lead off with this. My burning question is Did your parents name you so that you would be forced into great artistic creativity as Michelangelo?
SPEAKER_00:
No, so my grandfather’s name was Angelo, good Italian grandpa, and I was extremely chubby as a baby, and apparently I looked like my chubby uncle Mikey. So I became Michael Angelo Stuno.
David:
And um so they had no um, yeah, it wasn’t so you’re so you’re not a you’re not like a turtle who fights crime, who likes pizza.
SPEAKER_00:
No.
David:
Okay. No, just making sure.
Gavin:
Nor are you a renaissance man. Although I would say that with that intro, I’m building you up as a Renaissance man. Come on.
SPEAKER_00:
A little bit of a Renaissance man, I hope.
Gavin:
Like dumbing it down though, can you tell us how has your kid driven you bananas today?
SPEAKER_00:
Today. Today? Well, you know, it’s like it’s kind of we have it, I’m a half a teenager, so you know, she’s set just her.
David:
Peace be with you.
SPEAKER_00:
So it’s really uh, you know, the getting them out of bed is the thing. And she had uh media day. I don’t know if you’re familiar with this thing with the high school with school sports. Now they do media day, where you have to uh they show up and they do little videos and they take pictures and they do all this stuff so that they can post it on the school’s athletics website. So she had to be there at 7 45 this morning. And she’s been, you know, sleeping in all summer because it’s summer and we let her sleep in. Sure. So then, you know, I’m like, okay, set your alarm, you know, 6 30, you gotta get up because you gotta leave, you know. And then uh I hear her alarm go off, and then nothing happens, and then I hear the again the click, nothing happens, and then so then I have to drag her out of bed. Knock, knock, knock, I’m up! Like, okay, so that didn’t seem like you were up, and then a few more knocks, and then she finally got ready.
David:
So that’s kind of I love the like fuck you tone of I’m up, right? It wasn’t like I’m up, it’s like I’m up, you piece of I remember being a kid at that age and having to get up early for figure skipping lessons. That’s another story, and I was impossible. I was the same way. I would I I was impossible to get up, and I was really mean. I was so mean when I would get up, and then my dad started like putting green olives in my mouth to wake me up because it would just be so much disgusting. Yeah, he would because he was he was so fucking pissed. He was like, Why are you not getting out of bed? I just couldn’t do it. I was the exact same way because you were sleeping with your mouth wide open, apparently. I mean, I still do.
SPEAKER_00:
Are you afraid of martinis now because of being traumatized by olives a job?
David:
I loved green olives. I would just eat it and then go right back to bed. I don’t know what he was thinking. Yeah.
Gavin:
Well, uh, this is a little horrifying to me that uh uh the way I was interpreting what you were saying, Michael, is media training so that you don’t screw up and say the wrong thing. But what you’re saying is it’s the school promoting the athletes.
SPEAKER_00:
Yeah. So now, you know, everything is so uh geared towards, you know, Instagram and all that stuff that um, you know, and it’s kind of great because if you follow the Instagram, like they’re like it’s game day, and there’s a picture of your kid like holding a volleyball looking like fierce as all shit. So that’s kind of great in many ways, you know. Um great. But uh it’s it’s a lot of and you know, my kid is not, she is not like Miss Look at me, look at me, you know. She really takes more after my husband that way. So it’s a stretch for her to like come up with things to do and you know, point at the camera and go, eh, you know, like all this stuff they love the athletes to do, you know. It’s it’s so let’s go back a little bit.
David:
So you are a gay man and you have a daughter. How do how did you become a dad?
SPEAKER_00:
Um, we adopted through the foster adopt system in Los Angeles. Um we Jeff and I, when we first got together, one of the things that we I don’t know, coalesced on is the fact that we both wanted to be parents very much. Planned that. And uh, but it took a long time before it happened. We were together like nearly 20 years before the adoption happened. I was it happened just before my 50th birthday, which is not bonkers. And um, but uh so we uh we always knew we wanted to do foster adopt. We knew there were lots of kids, and I have like a history of it in my family. Like my grandmother, uh Vettini Coco in New York’s in Queens, New York. Uh she uh she had four foster kids. So she had five kids of her own, and then after her husband died, she took in four foster kids, and one of them stuck. My uncle Ray, like basically became adopted. So it was in my world, and Jeff, my husband, has an adopted sister. So we always it was always in our world, you know, adoption rather than surrogacy or any of the other ways people do it.
David:
So for the listener out there who doesn’t know the difference between adoption, foster to adopt, what what is the difference there?
SPEAKER_00:
Foster adopt. Um, so it’s kids that are in a system, they’re usually older, it’s very rare that they’re newborns. Uh they’ve they’re in dangerous situations or in a situation where they can’t be raised by their parents, so they become wards of the state of the state, and then they’re uh they’re up for adoption. So you can either sometimes kids are in foster adopt and they don’t get adopted and they go back to their parents. Reunification is something that is a goal for a lot of the kids that are in the system. But so what it basically means is that there’s a lot of uncertainty in it. Our first we had a placement before Imani, we had a placement, uh a newborn, like a six-day-old kid, that we went down to UCLA Medical Center and picked up. It all happened really quickly. I was in New York working, I had to like fly back, and then we had to get everything for a newborn because we weren’t expecting a newborn in one day, and then go to UCLA and pick up this kid. And we had him for just barely a week, and then it all fell apart. And wow, there was another situation. And they they took him back, and it was horrible. It was devastating and horrible. But it sort of was like a it prepared me a little bit for like, okay, you know, this newborn holding him in my arms and falling in love immediately. And and he was born with a tiny, tiny little heroin addiction. So we had to like give him methadone every few hours, every 12 hours or something. And um, so it it was very intense, very deep, very lots of like bare chest holding him like against my bare chest to like and then it he got taken away and it was super devastating. But there was also a sense when we were placed with him, he was a white boy, and it was the whole time we were in the adoption process, the foster adopt process. I never imagined that that was gonna be our kid. I literally always imagined an African-American girl, like it was just in my head, and all through the training, and you have to go through a bunch of training too before you can do foster adopt, and they warn you about these things that can happen. And so when we got placed with him, I was like, that’s funny, like really, and we but we dived in and we went okay, yeah, and then it it disappeared, and I it was horrible, but I knew after that experience that I was ready to be a dad for real, yeah, like I really knew, yeah, and then it was also a lesson in I was unsure about that placement, and it was a lesson in um let’s trust our gut about it. So then we got that, we got there were a lot of calls over that summer, like, oh, here’s another kid, and I would like check in and go, uh I don’t it doesn’t feel right, it doesn’t feel right. And one time they called like two days before we were leaving for what we kept calling our last vacation in Provincetown, you know, like with our friends, like the being gay men in Provincetown, like because we knew we were gonna become dads soon, and the gates will be closed to you, you will never be allowed back.
David:
Yeah, you’re you are dead to us forever now.
SPEAKER_00:
Yeah, no, it’s and so like they called like two days before, and I was like, if this was really our kid, like they sh they wouldn’t be ruining our vacation. We’re gonna save it.
David:
Yes, they would. Yes, they fucking would. How about right?
SPEAKER_00:
But then a couple months later, I was back in New York again, weirdly, at the same clients that I was with for the first placement, and they I had to fly back, and we got a call, and they they said we have a placement, and they never do this, but they told me her name in Mani, which they’re not supposed to do. And I was like, This is it, this is really it. And I said, I’m gonna say yes. I’m calling Jeff to let him know, but I’m gonna say yes. And I called Jeff and I said, I think this is our kid, and it was thrilling and exciting, and uh and then I flew back and we met her, and it was and then we took a long time to get to know her because she was already in foster care, she was very attached to the woman who was caring for her at the time, who’s like a grandma to her now. She just lives like a mile away from us. Um and she and it was so immediate when we met her, like it was it was really uncanny. Like within and she had a history of stranger anxiety, you know, like not being very open to strangers. And within 15 minutes of meeting her, she was like holding our hand and playing with us. She jumped into my arms. I was sitting on the floor and she was in the lap of her foster mom, and uh she looked down and she just like jumped into my arms, and it was like an hour and a half in. So and then there were bumps because there was a horribly homophobic adoptions worker at the county who said they were like place us with her and then or place her with us, and then they’re like, Oh, it’s not gonna work out, and we were like, What? And I was really thrown because I really felt like she’s our kid, and um, and then uh they then they called a week, I don’t know, a couple weeks later. Oh, and this was right around when we were getting married, too, because it was 2008 and it was legal for a little while in Los Angeles, so we were like, we’re gonna be dads, let’s get married. So we planned this wedding. My mom was flying in from the East Coast, Jeff’s family was coming down from up north, and we were like, we’re getting placed with a kid, we’re getting married, like, oh my god, it’s all coalescing. And then they’re like, oh no, it fell through. And it was really confusing. Um, but then a few weeks, so then we had the wedding, and then a few weeks later they called and said, it might be back on the table. And I was like, Yes, it’s back on the table because this is our kid, this is our child. And then again, it got thwarted. And our amazing adoption social worker, who was our social worker, said, I think that we have a legal issue here because the so the social worker at the county keeps dropping these little buzzwords like, are you sure two men, their lifestyle can accommodate a little girl?
Gavin:
Like, and it was like, what this was one person, one bureaucrat was gumming this up for you. Wow, one person who’s amazing.
David:
Because the gay lifestyle for me, at least, is eating chips in bed. Like, I don’t know what they’re talking about. Like crying in my car in the target parking lot. Like, that’s the gay lifestyle I’m living.
SPEAKER_00:
True that, true that. Yeah, so it was it was so that’s the difference. That’s it, and I thought, you know, the truth is that’s a difference. Like, there’s a lot more on the surface uh feeling of not knowing what’s gonna happen, you know, uncertainty. But the truth is there’s that certain uncertainty in private adoption, too. You know, I think it’s just like you had my friend David Marshall Grant on a few weeks ago. We sure did, shout out. They had some, and I I listened to the podcast. It’s I wish that you would, you know, spend your time getting a boner over me, the way you guys were getting for the yeah. Hey, we’re we’re working up to that. You can only see, yeah, yeah.
David:
You can only see from our neck up. We’re working on it. Don’t worry about it.
SPEAKER_00:
But but you know, he told the story of like a couple failed things that happened. And so after they we uh got Imani before they adopted, and having having seen what he went through, I was like, oh, in terms of uncertainty, it can be perilous either way. But yeah, the it’s so amazing because I I always believe like the most important thing about parenting is to not think that your child is you, you know, not think that like, oh, they’re an extension of me, they have to be me. Like, and and so adoption for me was raising a kid who wasn’t not biologically mine was always really like a beautiful thing to keep that.
Gavin:
That’s a great element because I know that I struggle all the time with trying to force my kids into a you know, a square peg into a round hole by just being me, probably.
David:
And uh but then also, you know, we did surrogacy. There is also a lot of fucking terrifying moments through that. But the difference, I feel like, is mostly you’re talking about biological happenings, right? Versus you, which is you’re who knows what social worker hates gay people, or what law does it benefit you in what state, or what reunification happens, or what family member comes out. Like we don’t deal with any of that stuff. We’re just dealing with the normal kind of biology of you know, miscarriage or or stuff like that.
Gavin:
So speaking of family members though, coming out, I think you have a unique situation. I knew that uh your daughter has still a relationship with her birth mother, and then you also mentioned this grandmother figure a mile away. How have you what’s that juju that you have around the entire family?
SPEAKER_00:
You know, I I feel I feel like we’re super lucky in terms of um the the woman who was fostering Imani, uh, her name is Betty, was uh very devoted to her and also fostered a great relationship with Imani’s birth mother, who was, by the way, a teenager when she had Imani. You know, she was Imani is coming up in December, she’ll be the age her mother was when she gave birth to. Oh wow, which is like mind-boggling to me. Yeah, and you know, to really see like what a 17-year-old girl is like and to imagine her basically without support having a kid. Um so Betty was very connected and very uh invested in who was gonna adopt Imon, who was gonna care for Imani. And um, she liked us immediately. And so, and my mom is 3,000 miles away. Jeff’s parents are up north, and so and she’s she’s only she’s like about she’s like Betty’s like she’s gonna be 80, I think. So she’s like 15 years older than me. So she was like definitely grandma territory when we met her, and she really wanted to be involved, and it was so amazing to have a grandma nearby.
David:
Totally, which is life-changing for a parent. We don’t have any family in that area, we rely on babysitters only. Oh, yeah, the people I know who have family nearby who could just drop baby off with grandma. I’m just like, I’m just so jealous of because, as you know, it is incredibly helpful just to have that that one little support person near you.
SPEAKER_00:
I I’ve I’ve said for years, like I never, you know, I grew up in New York and suburban New Jersey, and I, you know, I moved 3,000 miles away from my family, you know. And part of it was just like creating a new thing, and part of it was like I was in show business at the time, and uh, but I never I I so wanted my mother when we first had Imani. And when she would come out and visit, or when we would visit there, and I my mom was so she’s a my mom was a great is she’s still alive, but she has Alzheimer’s, but she’s a great mom, and she was so great with Imani. We had Jeff, a friend of ours had a show opening on Broadway in the first year that we had Imani. So we went back to New York and for the first time left Imani. Like we were so nervous to leave her, and my mother was like, get out of here! Like we’re fine, like I know what I’m doing. And and Imani just feeds her cake immediately, right?
David:
Oh yeah, cake.
SPEAKER_00:
Literally on a sofa bed in the basement watching movies and like you know, with the dog on the bed with them, and you know, and Imani just it was like easy as pie. And so that’s awesome. Yeah, having family, I really appreciated it.
David:
It makes it makes a world difference. So let’s go back to your your we want to talk about the whole you. So let’s go all the way back to pre-parent you. Okay. Um, and you were an artist, you’ve been a lot of different kinds of artists. I hope you were not an actor like Gabin and I, because we only have room for two of those on this show.
SPEAKER_00:
Right.
David:
Uh a little bit about you. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:
I, you know, I started when I was really young, like in New Jersey, I found a community theater. And so, you know, I I started doing in kindergarten when I we lived in Queens, when I lived in New York, you know, I got handed like the little kite who couldn’t fly. And I think because I was a good uh early reader, you know, I could like do the part. So I had to lead, you know, and sure. And applause, and applause is a drug from a drug from hell of a non. So and listen, it started before that because when we lived in New York, like uh on a block where my cousins all we had like five cousins who lived on the same block, my grandmother lived on the same block. So and everybody, I don’t know how this happened, but everybody took tap dance lessons from Miss Kathy’s school of dance in New York. Yes, you did, Miss Kathy. Like, what? But I mean, all my older brother, who’s like not, you know, cisgender, whatever, you know, like everybody took tap lessons.
Gavin:
Oh and I want to live in a world where everybody takes tap lessons.
SPEAKER_00:
Everyone should take tap lessons and be a waiter sometime.
Gavin:
And be a waiter.
SPEAKER_00:
I believe.
David:
Oh my god, yeah, some sort of customer-facing position because you get to see the grossest part of humanity. I one of the first like temp jobs I had when I first moved to New York City was I would hand out flyers for various companies. That is a way to see the grossest part of people when you hand them trash and the way they treat you. Oh awful.
SPEAKER_00:
So you started out at as in kindergarten as a tap dancer, and then suddenly you were in LA as a at age three in Miss Kathy’s School of Dance, I played Jiminy Cricket in a tap show. And I was literally like three or three and a half years old, and I can remember the applause. Like I could rem, I mean, I feel I was three years old. I was like the youngest girl. So, you know, and so that set it up, right? And then I was always doing that, and and then when we moved to New Jersey, I found a like a new community theater, the Barn Theater in Booton, New Jersey, and I did shows there, and I just decided at a very early age that I was gonna be an artist, and then that morphed into being an actor. And and then I started I went to NYU, I started working right out of high school. Someone saw me in my high school production of The Odd Couple, playing Felix Unger, and uh I got a manager, and I went to NYU and started working my first year of college. So I thought it was all gonna happen like, oh, yeah, yeah. So easy. So easy, just like me. Yep, it’s faded, it’s me.
Gavin:
And then what are people talking about this being a tough business? Come on.
David:
It’s so true. The very, the, my very literally the first job, the first professional job out of college I was ever offered was the first and only time I was offered two jobs at once. It was two different tours. One was a non-equity tour and a lead role, and the other one was an ensemble role and an equity tour. And I was like, what should I do? What should I do? And I was like, I’m gonna have to be making these decisions for the rest of my life. Never once have I ever had to turn down work.
SPEAKER_00:
Yeah. So, okay, so blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Yeah. You know, working, waiting tables, struggling, working here and there, but it didn’t, you know, I was like, you know, everyone, I, you know, I was at end my my freshman year. I’m having like tape sent to the West Coast for TV series, like, I think I’m gonna be a sitcom star any minute, what Broadway auditions, and then it just didn’t happen. And um and I did, and I started to just do other things. I started like doing yoga, I ended up becoming a yoga teacher for a while, like and went on a really deep spiritual journey, and then um decided to move to LA and came to LA and really started to get involved in the improv world. I studied at the Groundlings, and that was super fun, and like it was like a natural for me. And and then somebody I met at the Groundlings, we created uh an improv show that ran for like three years on Melrose. And I thought that was gonna be my big ticket. Like, New York Times came and did a story on us, and all this stuff, and it didn’t happen again.
Gavin:
We it this is so relatable, and it is just like the reality of show business so often. You think that there is gonna be something that’s gonna take off, and um and yet you’re still struggling, but you have parlayed. I mean, your acting skills have probably led you to where you are right now. Is that right?
SPEAKER_00:
I think so. And you know, part of it was that I did end up working a lot for a period of time, and then we bought a pro a broken down, horrible property that was a great property, but a horrible, broken down, hundred-year-old house in Venice, and renovated that. And um after I’d made a bunch of money, and then I we spent every penny I had in savings renovating this house. But I did a lot of the design work myself on it when I was working and working with the architect and working out stuff and materials, and and then you know, I was just turning 40 and out of money and stopped working less and less and less over those couple years, and then suddenly I was like, I have to find a job now.
SPEAKER_02:
Like, what?
SPEAKER_00:
I can’t, I’m gonna be a waiter again, like what? I was still teaching yoga, but it wasn’t like enough money to live on, and so the architect, uh, a really kind, talented guy named Dennis Gibbons uh in Los Angeles, he was like, you know, I would give you a job. Like, you’re talented as a designer, you could do interior stuff for me. So he hired me, and then somehow I don’t, yeah, I had a friend move from New York, they needed someone to do their house.
Gavin:
I did their house, and I just I started, it was like this is the dream for so many people, I feel like, that so I know people who would like to just like fall into interior design, and it is amazing because you you have a style that there are um celebrities are clamoring at your door to be able to get you to do their um stuff, and I have seen a lot of this on Instagram. Everybody go follow him at it’s at Michelangelo Stuno, right? No, Mick Angelo.
SPEAKER_00:
But I don’t have you don’t even it’s true, you have a you don’t need to put it.
Gavin:
No, no, but there are a bunch of people out there, um, and you have been featured, and your style is super slick. I mean, is there like a a label or how would you describe your style?
SPEAKER_00:
Really, I think, you know, I think that it’s all about the client for me, and I think that that’s where like having been uh worked in the theater, and you know, after being an actor, then I had a theater company, I directed a lot, I produced a lot. Um, I think collaborating is the thing that’s the most important to me about all of it. It’s not really even about um being so into styles or history of design, or it’s more about connecting with the person and working with them that I find the most exciting about it. So speaks to where it’s gonna go. And I think like clean and simple is probably something that’s a thread that carries through all the time, but um, it’s really about the client and interacting with them and enhancing their life, and I love people so much, you know, and I I can’t believe how interesting it is to be involved in people’s lives on such a personal level, you know. So, and people who I wouldn’t, if I stayed in show business, I wouldn’t be like intimately involved with a guy who’s a neurosurgeon or you know, a woman who works for Rand, you know what I mean? Like I I wouldn’t have really been deeply involved with these people, and so that’s been really interesting and exciting. So I think that’s my talent is interacting with people, really.
Gavin:
Now, is your house immaculately curated and clean and simple?
David:
Or does the shoemaker’s children go barefoot?
SPEAKER_00:
But you know, it’s a sofa that we inherited from a friend who was uh working and making a lot of money and just decided to get rid of it. We bought it like twenty five years ago.
David:
You know, I think that she’s lived in, she’s lived in.
SPEAKER_00:
She’s lived in, and it actually the arms are finally getting threadbare. I’m like, we have to recover that. And our dining table, when we so then we sold that property I mentioned in 2005, uh when we were really trying to organize around becoming parents, and we bought a four-unit apartment building. So we live in one of the apartments in the building that we own. So we really downsized to like a two-bedroom apartment, which is and one bath, which is really interesting with the teenage.
David:
No, thank you. No doubt.
SPEAKER_00:
Like, kill me now. Um, but uh so uh when we moved in, there was a sliding panel door, and we took it down and we widened the doorway, and then I was like, oh, you know what, we can use this door as a temporary dining table. We’ll put it on some posts, and and that was 57, 20 years ago. I love that though.
Gavin:
But it’s a it’s a conversation piece, and there’s no reason that you need to have a$20,000 dining room table, it’s just a place to put your mac and cheese.
David:
So but that’s so such the like suburban trap. This happens at our house all the time. It’s like, well, we’ll just do this for now until we get a nice one. It never happens. If you put up the temporary paint, the temporary wall color, the temporary table, it is that forever.
SPEAKER_00:
Yeah, it’s kind of amazing. But people, I mean, you know, uh, we spent time and interest and money on like organizing the space. So for a two-bedroom apartment, it feels really nice. And I think that that is you know the curated part of it. Like it it works functionally. We have a great kitchen because I like to cook a lot, and you know, we’ve had amazing times in that kitchen, but um, it definitely and people come over and they go, Oh, your place is beautiful. And I’m like, just let your eyes breeze over it, don’t look too close.
David:
Step over the trash. Yes, that’s uh that’s a um so you’ve got a teenager, so Gavin has preteens. I have very, very young kids, but we’re all basically gonna get teenagers. So what is what’s some advice for dealing with those monsters? I mean, children.
SPEAKER_00:
Um don’t think this is really the truth. Don’t think that you are exempt from being the the the you know, the I can’t think of the words to say it, but the object of their disgust.
David:
Oh yeah. Gabin’s the object of my disgust, so he’s my teenager. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:
I it’s really kind of amazing. Like, if I starting it around, I don’t know, 15 minutes.
Gavin:
615 in the morning. Oh, never mind.
SPEAKER_00:
No, no, like age-wise, like the amount of times that I have said to her, like, really, that you want to play that that way? Like, that’s how you want to say that to me, like, you know, or huh? It’s astounding. And I know that you know, I thought, I mean, I don’t think I was, I must have been surly as a teenager, but I thought it was just because I want to get out of suburban New Jersey.
David:
Yeah, get back to New York City. Versus the chemical thing that was going on in your body. I plan on giving my children dog collars, and I’m gonna have like a little remote. And every time they roll their eyes, I’m just I’m just gonna zap them real quick.
SPEAKER_00:
They’re right so much. Like, that’s the that’s the really infuriating part. Like, you know, when she’ll say to me, like, well, that’s not what you said, blah blah blah, or well, why are you doing that if blah blah blah?
Gavin:
Or that’s and I’m like, don’t call me on my hypocrisy. No, it is very, very true. My daughter will definitely cat call me on my shit frequently, and it is infuriating. It’s really tough to get it’s tough to just get past how you’re taking it back and speechless because they’re right. And you’re right, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:
And so I I mean, I really try to take a step back when that happens and not be like because you know, because I’m your father, that sentence. And yeah, um, but it doesn’t always work. And then, you know, there’s a lot of I’m not yelling. Yeah. When she’s like, Why are you screaming? Or why are you so mad? And I’m like, I’m not so mad.
David:
I have I have fully recorded my child saying things in an effort to play them back for them. So when they say, I didn’t yell at me, I’m like, Your honor, please look at exhibit C and I’ll play the video. And then you could just see them going, and my kids are five and two. I’m pulling the shit early.
Gavin:
Yeah, I’m I’m pre-planning for sure. Oh, yeah, pressure. And I look forward to Gatriarchs in 10 years being able to pull those out. That’ll be awesome.
SPEAKER_00:
Well, it’s also it’s so you you find yourself longing for like, oh, like remember when I walked home and she was like walked in the door and she’s like, Daddy, and like ran to me, and or even just like holding her with her like head in my neck, like you you go, what, what? And then every you know, she’s actually really not a horrible child. She’s really great, honestly. None of them are.
Gavin:
We’re the assholes, but it’s fun to be able to pretend it’s the other way around.
SPEAKER_00:
But sometimes we get sometimes you get like that same feeling again, you know, and then and I think they you know feed you drops of it.
David:
It’s a drug. They’re keeping us in this weird drug. Just a little bit, yeah. Just a little bit of applause.
Gavin:
We just want a little bit of applause once in a while. So what about your I’ll never forget the time when?
SPEAKER_00:
Oh, I was so I was um so I sent you that photo of Imani in bed with Hero, her dog. Yes.
Gavin:
Um so I’ll show it, I’ll show it to all of our listeners right now.
SPEAKER_00:
Yes. Okay. Isn’t it cute? Um, Imani’s first word that she spoke, we weren’t there for it, but we were told was doggy. And she wanted a dog from literally the minute she moved in. She wanted a dog. So finally, when she was about seven, we said, okay, and we went, we did a rescue situation, and she picked out um, named her hero, uh but the Japanese spelling, H-I-R-O.
Gavin:
Oh, because of course.
SPEAKER_00:
So she really wanted a dog. We got the dog, she was so happy, like, so happy that we got her a dog, and she literally would sleep with the dog in her bed with her under the customers.
David:
Oh, so sweet.
SPEAKER_00:
And it was amazing, and it was every night, like, and it would made bedtime. Bedtime was horrible for us for years. Like, you know, I think her transitions that she had, and um and then she moved in. She was nearly two years old when she finally moved in with us, and she um, you know, it was like having a newborn, but with the power of a toddler, and so we went through like 18 months of hell trying with sleep. So it was really helpful with sleep because she was so happy to get into bed with Hero, and we close the door and whatever. One night, um I go in to check on Ann, you know, before I go to bed, and I’m like pulling the covers around her a little bit and um you know, love and looking at her, and then I feel like what is happening? Like, there’s some wetness, like did she leak through a diaper? Like, what’s going on? No, no diaper. She’s was like seven years old. So, like, what’s going on? Did something happen? Like, and I I I pull the sheets and it’s all gloppy and wet in the bed. And I turn on a light, and there’s like I don’t know what all over the bed. And I’m like, oh my god, like what’s happened to my child? And then nothing, it didn’t come from her. They’re both asleep, by the way. Hero looks up and she’s and then I realize that what I’m looking at is Hero’s vomit in bed with my child, and little flecks of I had like decoratively like seashells and a starfish, like on one of the low tables in the room. And Hero, I guess in the night, ate the starfish. And so there were like little shards of starfish like in the bed with mucus, and it was so disgusting. And then I was like, okay, what do I do? Do I wake up? What do I do? So then I had to like hit like get her up, and then she wakes up and the horror on her face, like the horror on her face, and she like imagine waking up and you’re like covered in it was absolutely abominable. I had to get her cleaned up, had to like redo the bed, and it’s like, you know, it’s like I don’t know, one in the morning, whatever, it takes hours, and put her in bed. I cleaned her up, put her in bed with Jeff, and then did it all like set hero’s fine, and then after that, from that moment on, no more in the bed. Sleepy, and then like and that was her. Hero cannot sleep in the room with her. Hero, like, she doesn’t even want Hero in the room with her. Like, she was terrified.
David:
And thank goodness that was her choice and not your decree. Um I’m not gonna lie, when you were telling me that story, I thought what you were gonna say was, and we decided she’s sleeping. We’re just gonna roll the dice and let this sit until the morning because it can’t get any worse. That would be and that would have been totally acceptable.
Gavin:
Yeah, we would not have cast any judgment on that whatsoever. In fact, in fact, thinking back on it, I would have probably just done that because she was.
SPEAKER_00:
You know, if it weren’t sharp shards of a fucking starfish puke is yeah, maybe it was I mean, so that I’ll never I’ll never forget that.
Gavin:
Wow. Well, Angelo Stuno, you have left us with uh yeah, images that we will not get out of our heads. Sorry. Thank you for demeaning thank you for demeaning yourself and coming onto our stupid little podcast. It’s been a pleasure. Thanks, you guys.
David:
So, my something great this week is a thing. I am a sauce girl. I love a dip, I love a ketchup, I love an aioli, I love any sort of sauce, any sort of dressing, any sort of anything. I found, and this is big because I’m gonna say this the most delicious dipslash sauce I’ve ever had in my entire life. Whoa. That it’s from Costco for all my all my executive members out there. It is the Costco Cupie deep roasted sesame. It’s like sauce and marinade. They have it at Costco. When I tell you, run, don’t walk to Costco, run. It is so now, keep to be fair, it is like 140 calories for two tablespoons of this stuff, but it is so fucking delicious. I cannot even express to you.
Gavin:
It’s a dip for a cracker or a marinade for a salmon?
David:
It’s called like marinade and dressing. So you can kind of use it for whatever you want, but I uh we usually use it for like, you know, a salad dressing or whatever. It is so goddamn delicious. Oh my god. Anyway, that just it changed my life this week. What about you?
Gavin:
I am listening I am a political animal at heart. I love the game. My something great is just Kamala and the entire convention. And the fact that it was a big ass party of people saying, no, no, no, no, we are a party of freedom. We’re a party of family, we’re a party of faith, whatever it means.
David:
Taking that shit back from them. The Republicans have acted like they are free. They’re all out freedom and faith and family, and they are not.
Gavin:
I’ve lost track of whether it was Hillary or Michelle who did, I believe, say, you know, the freedom to worship who you want or not worship. And I was like, okay, okay, we’re austerists in the house. Yes. It was it was um, it was all sorts of great vibes. And I was up till midnight for four nights in a row, which I have not done in decades. And uh it was totally worth it, even though I kind of feel like crap right now.
David:
But it’s been so lovely to have that energy back because it’s like not since Obama have we really felt this on the liberal side, and it’s been it has been really electrifying. I think we would have both voted for Biden, but it all it never felt good. It always felt like sad and like fuck our system. And then this Kambala thing has just been like re-energized me in a way that I’m like, ah, yes.
Gavin:
Yeah, it’s really great. And that’s our show. If you have any comments, suggestions, or general compliments, you can email us at gatriarchspodcast at gmail.com.
David:
Or you can DM us on Instagram. We are at Gatriarchspodcast on the internet. David is at DavidFM BaumEverywhere, and Gavin is at GavinLodge at the DNC.
Gavin:
Please leave us a glowing five star review wherever you get your podcasts.
David:
Thanks, and we’ll vote for you next time on another episode of Gatriarchs.