Full Transcript
Oh, that’s right. Okay. Ready for three? Yeah.
Gavin:
Uh oh yes.
David:
Um literally how our called open this week started was I was taking you took a big breath then and I interrupted you. And then that was funny. And this time you did it to me. And so I guess it came back as a bitch. And this is Gatriarchs. Okay, so we Gavin and I were just talking before we started recording. Um and Gavin was like, you gotta put this on, you gotta put this on. And it was usually just my trauma dump that we do right before we record.
Gavin:
Which is yes, we have our therapy trauma dump, and then we pretend that everything’s you know light and breezy.
David:
On purpose, though, because when we made the show, the goal was like, let’s do something that is cotton candy. It’s forbiddable, it is not meaningful, and Gavin keeps pushing me on it, and I never I know and it never happens. But anyway, I was talking about I’m learning Dutch right now. For those of you who don’t know, I’m I’m on Duolingo day 66, I think. And um it is partly therapeutic because I knows what’s gonna happen. Because I am way more glass half empty on things. I am 10, 10, as we talked about with poker, I am 10 steps ahead in this process already. I’m not worried about I have to be your survival now.
Gavin:
Yeah, your survival trait is going to be the long term. I can’t see the forest for the trees at all. So, or the trees for the forest, whatever the metaphor may be, you are gonna dutch it up. So I’m touching it up. So what is it like? Uh do you do you actually feel like a toddler right now, learning a new language? Can you suddenly refer relate to your daughter and her vocabulary growth?
David:
I mean, it’s it’s wild to learn a language as a 45-year-old man because I speak Spanish on your phone. Yeah, exactly. I speak Spanish, but I learned Spanish in middle and high school and college. See, yes, and I had a regular class and I had teachers and I had workbooks and I had all that kind of stuff, and it’s taught in a different way. Duolingo, if you’ve never used it, is an immersion program. It is like you just jump into the pool, they say nothing to you, they just have a picture of a horse and they say part. And you go, okay, I guess that’s part. And then it just moves on from just sheer memorization.
Gavin:
I wonder if the logic behind it is is that at all how toddlers learn? Just like probably. Or is it complete? I mean, we’re ex we’re comparing apples to part.
David:
Oh, we are playing, yes. And and this is not a funny or interesting opening, but um Gavin forced me to say it. So that is what I’m doing. That is my therapy for dealing with the world is going, you know what? If I have to uh uh immigrate to the Netherlands, which is a wonderful place, which I’ve I’ve lived in before.
Gavin:
If I have to proposition a Dutchman, this is how I’m gonna do it.
David:
Listen, if I have to be in or outside of a Dutchman, I will do that as a service to his country.
Gavin:
Um, but then um speaking of Dutch, I was in New Amsterdam yesterday. Oh, New York City. Nice, huh? Nice. I didn’t see any parts. And but what I did see was I man, I was on nostalgia daddyhood walking around. I happened to be on the upper west side. I had two meetings, three meetings for business, for work. And there were so many kids walking around with nannies. And my kids, A, we never had a nanny because what couldn’t afford one? And B, um, we were had weird schedules, you know, so we didn’t need somebody during the day. But anyway, walking around and like being in that world, it is just you know, we had Gabrielle and uh Nathan on, and we were talking so much about uh the difference between having kids in the city and out of the city, and you’re reminded it is another beast in there. And uh when you’re not in the city, it’s just so completely different. But walking around and seeing all those toddlers with nannies and toddlers and McDonald’s and toddlers at Starbucks and parents with toddlers at Starbucks on iPads, and just it’s um it’s a thing. But I do uh I miss those toddler days. That’s another thing.
David:
Like my little male ovaries, my maileries were like, I don’t need a baby, but you’re I I you’re you’re doing the thing that I complain about a lot, but but I I’m gonna defend you. Don’t worry. I I’m gonna slap you and then hug you because I’m I’m a I’m a domestic abuser. But um what what always, as we know, as I talk, yeah, uh no, not funny, not funny at all. Um but the the thing that I complain about all the time is these these older parents are like, oh, but I miss it, you’re gonna miss it, blah, blah, blah. And they forget the 24 hours. However, however, Gaben, my kids are now five and a half and three, and uh a lot of the shitty, boring, stupid parts are gone. No diapers, no uh no extra strollers, no, none of that stuff. And I’m kind of like missing a little bit every once in a while. Like I haven’t held a baby in so long. My kids are fucking massive, and they don’t want to be held by me. But um, it’s funny. I speaking of that, I’ve been traveling a lot lately. And uh, have you? I have been almost every weekend I’ve been gone, and one thing started to change, and it scares me because it’s gonna start to pull the rug out from my soapboxing I’ve been doing for a long time, which is Gavin, I missed my kids. I was gone for 48 hours, yeah. Which normally I’d be like, I didn’t think about the kids. I was in my hotel watching the office the whole time. Who cares? Yeah. I I was literally like, oh, I want to see them again. What is wrong with me? What is that? What is what?
Gavin:
Start a new podcast.
David:
I gotta start a new podcast. Um, but while I was gone, I I there’s all these things that happened. So I put them in an order. So missing the kids, number one. Number two, there was this family on the train to the airport when I was in Chicago that was there, and they had like maybe a one and a half year old, and they dad was literally carrying a giant car seat and a giant plastic bag and two huge suitcases. Mom had this massive stroller, kid was having a meltdown, they looked like fucking asshole. And I was just like looking at all their stuff, uh-huh, and I was like, oh my God, I’m not in that phase anymore. Thank God. That is, thank God. And I, of course, then I was like, oh, but it’s so fun to push them. No, David, stop it. No, it is not. It is snap out of it. Snap out of it. Um, but I did the thing, Gavin, that I do every time. And I’ve complained about this, which is I stare at these kids and smile at them and then smile at the parents, assuming they know that I’m a parent of a child as well. And then I lock eyes with these dads and moms looking at me like, stop staring at my daughter, you fucking freak. So it was a wild, wild weekend. But the one the one last thing I want to mention on my weekend away was I was working at uh this dance studio, and the the owner of the dance studio was talking to me, like, hey, whatever. And she casually mentioned, she goes, Oh, well, my best friend, who’s a gay man and married to his husband, I’m gonna be their surrogate. And I was like, I’m sorry. What? I was like, girl, let’s talk. And it was really fun to hear of a surrogate in the wild getting ready to do this fucking process. And she’s doing traditional surrogacy, so it is a whole bunch of things. So please explain for a listener what that means. Yeah. So the so what Gavin and I did was called gestational surrogacy, where we had an egg donor who was a separate person than the gestational surrogate who actually grew the baby inside of them. So the the gestational surrogate is not biologically related to the child. Um and not the mom and the carrier are not one and the same. Correct. The egg donor and the carrier are not the same. However, traditional surrogacy, they are the same. So the surrogate is actually getting pregnant with her own egg. So she is 50% biologically related to this child. And then so that changes a lot of the laws and all that kind of stuff. But it was wild, it was so complicated.
Gavin:
That’s a layer of complication, frankly.
David:
Oh, legally, because she you know what I mean?
Gavin:
I mean, this is why it was illegal way back in the day, baby Jane or whatever from the early 80s or late 70s or whatever it was in New Jersey. Um, that’s what started the whole anti-surrogacy movement in blue states.
David:
So it was really cool to like have this weekend and then meet this like surrogate that’s joining in in the process. And of course, I was like, you know, oh, this is gonna be so exciting, so fun for you. On the inside, I was like, this is gonna be a nightmare. Good luck. Good luck, good luck with this. Um, but uh terrible. I clearly I’m I’m a changed person because Gavin, I now have another moment of awe.
Gavin:
Oh what?
David:
Yeah, so my daughter, um, who uh is pretty good at bedtime, it’s one of her few times that she’s pretty solid. I put her down, I say goodnight, and I walk out of the room and close the door. Lately, she’s been on this like sticky sweet vibe. And now when I leave, I say I love you, Hannah, and she goes, I love you, Deda. And I say I love you too. She goes, I love you more. And she does this like sticky sweet back and forth, I love you shit. Yeah, it totally works. It totally works. It totally works. On your cold-hearted, it has melted the outer layer of my cold heart.
Gavin:
Did you did you ever watch um Little Britain back in the day? Little Britain is a show that everybody should stop. Turn this stupid podcast off anyway, for as if you needed a reason, and go watch Little Britain from the early aughts, I suppose. And it was these two British, I mean hilarious British comedians who just did sketch comedy, and it was very queer-friendly. There was one, I mean, have you ever heard the term I’m the only gay in the village? Um Okay, well, anyway, there were there were lots of it was all irreverent in only the ways that British people do so very, very well. And there was one scene that was a recurring scene between a mom and a daughter, I suppose, both played by the two men, of course, because that is the British way. And it would quickly go down a rabbit hole of I love you more than ice creamy, I love you more than balloons, I love you more than birthday cake, I love you more than blowjobs, and the parent and the kid would one up each other. I love you more than felting in a condom, I love you more than this, and it was it. Gavin, this is a Christian podcast, please do. It got completely over the top and truly hilarious and side-splittingly disgusting. And again, in the way that only the British can do so well. So I’m glad I have now utterly poisoned your moment of awe as you try to refrain from going beyond unicorns and Sundays for the next time. Yes. I, however, am not a changed man. I am continuing the battle with my daughter to get her into the band, right? The saga continues, and I just want to give the brief update, which is we have moved from bribery to threats. Because it because I’m going to win this, and I’ve had this conversation with so many people, and everybody, basically, everybody’s is like, I get it. I get it. You Gavin, you’re right. You are right, which of course I love. Let’s just stop there. But also, everybody’s like, I’m not sure that forcing her and threatening her is going to be the way to you’re not making a musician.
David:
Do you know what I mean? Yeah.
Gavin:
No, I am just, I am just uh forcing, um, I don’t know.
David:
Because you don’t want her to love music, you just want her to be in a music class, is what you’re doing, right?
Gavin:
I want I want her to see that the garden is worth cultivating. And right now she doesn’t realize that there are fields of flowers to be had and fresh strawberries and tomatoes. Nope, she just sees a fallow asphalt field, and um, so I’m trying to force it. I know I am not learning very well whatsoever. But um, speaking of not work not learning very well, this is to this relates to the news of the week. Um, so one bit of cynically good news is that there was a man in Utah who was a conversion therapy uh psychiatrist who was convicted of abusing his clients.
David:
Applause. Applause.
Gavin:
In no way, this is such a dark story, such a very, very, very dark story, obviously. And our hearts go out to all of the victims, of course. But boy, does it feel good. There’s some retribution there for being like conversion therapy, y’all. It doesn’t work. And why would you try to do something like this? And because you know, who is not molesting children? Drag queens and gay dads, you know. Not a single fucking one.
SPEAKER_03:
Yeah.
Gavin:
But who maybe is um these people who are trying to, you know, uh suppress and repress. So I felt like that was sort of good news of the week.
David:
Absolutely. That’s good news. And you know what else is good news? Tell me. Dilf of the week. Yeah, I uh if you have been living under a rock, it probably sounds pretty peaceful underneath there. However, above the rock, Robert Irwin, Steve Irwin’s son, who has taken over his business and he’s now the concert, he’s the head of the conservation fund. He just came out with this like underwear shoot. And of course, it was it was all to like get eyes on his conservation thing or whatever. Well, well done. Gave and it worked. First of all, you’ve now donated all of your proceeds from Gatriarch to his fund. Correct. I don’t know if you saw our uh, we got an email for our like latest round of advertising and it was like 48 cents. But um yeah, it was really nice. But he, first of all, he’s 21, so he’s on the young side. It’s a little young, however, so hot, so beautiful. Also, he’s so kind and so sweet. My issue, if you have seen these photos, he’s wearing like the grossest Walmart straight underwear you’ve ever seen your dad. They’re like long boxer briefs. No, they’re like boxer briefs with like a like a wide waistband that has like the the name on it, and like like it, it just there’s nothing sexy about it. Like, I would have appreciated a sexier underwear, but he’s in every photo, he’s got like you know, a fucking tarantula on his face or a snake on his arm or whatever. It’s it’s it’s a great campaign. So, and he has a dad. So he is our dilf of the week, Robert Irwin.
Gavin:
All right, Bobby. So, completely unrelated to that, the holiday, another holiday is right around the corner. It’s Easter, and that is the inspiration for our top three list. Gatriarchs, top three list, three, two, one. This was my completely uncreative list, but I do have to say, I don’t know, Easter is a lovely next phase for spring and rejuvenation and the bunnies and all the things and everything. So um, I’m curious if you have any family traditions or things that you’re trying to foist upon your kids to make them think this is a day that is worth not just being on your um iPad or device all day long and thinking this is something special, right? Some some some sense of formality. So, number three for me is um watching movies in the afternoon and in the evening. I consider, since I was a very little kid, I remember when my mom rented Clue the movie on VHS. And we watched it twice, two times in a row, back to front to back, front to back.
David:
Um, in the But then you had that 10-minute break while it had to rewind.
unknown:
Yeah.
David:
Which for kids out there, rewinding was the thing that the physical tape had to do before you could watch it again.
Gavin:
So ever since I was a little kid, um Easters have always been always been movie afternoons for us because um what better way to just like welcome spring, I guess. And so it’s a in my mind, it’s a it’s a just a screw-off day, and you get to watch lots of movies. Number two, egg coloring. Obviously, I love egg coloring. That is very, very fun. And with my kids, we’ve tried to jerry rig ways that we can do, you know, two colors on one egg and like the creativity involved there and seeing my kids just brighten at the idea of egg coloring is obviously very fun. And then number one for me is egg salad sandwiches for the next four weeks. Um that like cannibalism on Easter?
David:
Isn’t that some sort of like weird perverted bunny? Probably.
Gavin:
I mean, listen, when you’re when you’re trying to look at the symbolism of bunnies and chickens and eggs, uh there that’s we’re talking about sex here.
David:
Right? I mean, that’s that’s right.
Gavin:
Easter’s based on the pagan rituals of pagan rituals of uh of flourishing and furry. Fertility. Um fertility. Yeah.
David:
And thanks for that.
Gavin:
I mean, it is. That’s what it is. Yeah, it’s like just fucking like bunnies and then eating egg salad sandwiches.
David:
Yeah, just a normal holiday, just a normal American holiday. Well, what about you, David? Um, so I totally ignored your prompt because um A, uh You’re an atheist. Yeah, I’m an atheist, but B, um, I feel like all Easter traditions are the same. Easter egg hunts and egg dyes or whatever. So I was like, what do I want to say? These are my top three Easter memories. Okay. So you’re just gonna have to get over it.
Gavin:
Way to make it all about you.
David:
Yep, yep, yep. Um, so number three, um, when I well when I was very young, we lived in Washington, DC, and my parents both worked, my mom worked at the White House, my dad worked at the uh Pentagon, and so we’re very government family, and we got to go to the Easter, we got to go to the White House.
Gavin:
Wait, wait, what? You didn’t know that? We went through an entire interview where I was asking you about yourself and you’re gonna be able to do it.
David:
Yeah, but you asked me you asked me like two questions about me and 10 questions that were really questions for you. Let’s be honest. So you didn’t ask me about this.
Gavin:
Have done the White House Easter egg?
David:
I did. Whatever. Yeah, it’s the White House Easter egg hunt. And this was in the course of the 1400s, where um, you know, but it my memory was um I was walking with my mom, and at some point I remember turning to my left, it’s a very visceral moment, and I remember looking at like a band, it was like a live band playing, and they’re playing some.
Gavin:
And Harry Truman was conducting.
David:
Uh-huh, yep, yep. And and Abraham Lincoln got shot. It was so scary. Um, and so I looked over at the band, I was like, oh, there’s band people, and I turned to look forward, and my mom was gone. And I was like, oh shit, I’m lost. It’s packed. What do I do? And maybe two and a half seconds later, my mom comes running up to me, screaming and sobbing. Oh my baby, where have you been? Like panicking. But hi, mom, you’re a listener. Um, and so that is that is number three. That is my Easter, just seeing my mom screaming, panicking because I was lost for two and a half seconds. Um, number two, my grandfather used to host the big Easter egg hunt, and it was super fun. And he would hide hundreds of these plastic eggs. He would hide, you know, fucking chocolates or pennies or whatever in it. That was not my memory. My memory was in like June, like November, when we’d be playing in his yard, and we would just find these like decaying eggs hidden amongst the bushes. And so we’d have this like magical second Easter egg hunt. We’d find these this like rotten chocolate in July, and we’d be like, yum, and we would just and it was so fun. So finding eggs off off time at my grandfather’s house. And number one, this is not even a uh Easter memory, it’s my one of my favorite things. I don’t know why. I don’t know why. I I cannot explain why it’s better, but chocolate tastes better when it’s in a hollow, you know, like when you bite into a bunny’s chocolate bunny’s ear and it’s like hollow and it like crackles in your mouth. Oh, there’s there’s nothing better than that. So that’s my number one Easter tradition that’s not a tradition, and I totally ignored your list.
Gavin:
I honor that because it was a pretty weak list.
David:
But how are you gonna top it for next week? Um, I do love topping, and so next week um we are gonna do what are the top three songs that are a mood? Like what it could be any mood, right? It could be energizing, it could be just like, but you know, those songs that you play, and it’s just like I am transported to another world. Top three songs that are a mood. Okay, our guest this week is a gay turduckin. He’s a gay man with two gay dads who’s on a gay podcast. And while that may sound delicious, his accolades don’t. Stop there. He’s a volunteer firefighter. He owns his own private jet consulting company, whatever that is, has an adorable dog. And guest boys, his Instagram is full of shirtless selfies. Sure is. All the single ladies, please line up for our guest this week, Ethan Levy. Hi, Ethan. Hi, thank you for having me.
Gavin:
Thank you for joining us. And I mean, between flights or as you were changing planes or something, just being able to slip into a little podcast. Thank you.
David:
Exactly. There you go. So we were talking before we started recording about like what even is that? As I’m going through your bios and like internet stalking you, I see this. Tell us what this like private jet consulting thing is before we jump into all the gay stuff, which is so I’ve been obsessed with aviation my entire life.
SPEAKER_00:
Nobody knows where I get that from because my gay parents are very much so not in obsessed with that. And so I ended up working for a major US airline when I was 18 years old from about 18 until I was like 21. And then I went into volunteer firefighting EMS. And after that, I was like, I want to go back to the aviation space. I miss it. You know, what do I do? So I started working for an individual that sold private jet charters out of um Palm Beach in in uh or West Palm Beach in Florida. And, you know, I did really well on the sales team and I was like, you know, pushing the company along, and I wasn’t seeing what I thought I should have been seeing for my efforts. So I kind of had like a fuck you moment and basically was just like, I’m gonna go start my own thing impulsively, of course. Nice. Um, and sure enough, you know, once we started ironing things out, it became like a legitimate business. So now I offered consulting services uh in the form of you know charters or um advising clients on what type of aircraft to get, selling them, you know, facilitating the sale, stuff like that. Um, and now I’m doing a lot of tech work. So we’re we’re launching another company that’s going to be data driven uh for for you know the aviation or business aviation side of the world.
Gavin:
Still everything that you said still kind of makes me go, yeah, but what do you do exactly for for forgive him?
SPEAKER_00:
He’s basically like being a jet assistant for the ultra wealthy. That’s basically you know what it is.
Gavin:
And do you but you for instance for also you aren’t a pilot, are you? Or do you want to be?
SPEAKER_00:
No, I’m not. Nope.
Gavin:
You don’t want to fly him, you just want to ride him.
SPEAKER_00:
Right, exactly.
David:
Wow, there it is, and there and there it is. But also, gays, I feel like inherently we love status with airlines. Yes, we love do you know what I mean? Like we will I will protect my status probably more than I would protect my own children. Like if somebody’s like, you can’t have Premier Silver this year with United, I’d be like, you can go fuck yourself. I’ll let your house on fire. Um, wait, let’s get let’s get to wire here first because then you came across my FYP. I was telling Gabin before you joined years ago. I don’t know why, I don’t know how. I just very much remember your video talking about your dads, and then you kind of disappeared into the ether as one does, and then you came back through again. And I was like, that’s the guy. Oh my god, that’s like a human being so great on gay triarcs. So you your video I remember was you talking about being raised by two gay dads, which I think is such a cool perspective for our listeners because we have had lots of gay dads in the show, we’ve had gay people, but we haven’t had a gay person who was raised by gay dads. Who finally, finally, we with the gays got one. We got one with our little hood or talents. So tell us a little bit about like you and your life growing up.
SPEAKER_00:
Yeah, absolutely. So I grew up in New York City my entire life until I was about 18 years old. Um, it was a lot of Fire Island every single weekend. So I would go to the Pines every week. I mean, I know it like the ins, you know, back the back of my hand at this point. Um, but yeah, so it was a lot of drag shows. My dad was constantly in the invasion. He did it, I think he did it for like five or six years with a couple of friends. And then you know, we were one of I think my more popular videos was talking about the scalp house drag party. And like people asking me, like, how did you know when you were gay? stuff like that. And I think my defining moment was wanting to go as Dorothy from The Wizard of Oz as with the real, you know, basket dog or Toto in a basket. So that was really um, you know, kind of a moment where I should have been there or stopped and said, wait, like this is this is maybe something else. But yeah, I grew up going to school on the upper west side. I, you know, had a stint where I wasn’t the best teenager. I don’t think ever if you grow up in New York City, you’re exposed to a lot very early on. So that kind of the influence there was was, you know, kind of hard for me to deal with. But got my life back on track and kind of, you know, took a break there for a little bit. And yeah, I was in a relationship last year or ended last year, and it was kind of like it was very rocky, like, you know, police got involved and stuff like that. And it was it was not an ideal situation. So I turned to TikTok to be like, you know, hey, this is my audience. Like, let me start talking, let me just like get to know people on here because I moved to a city where I didn’t really know anybody, so I was gonna try to network that way, and it just turned into like this world of opportunity that I would have never had or imagined otherwise. So, you know, definitely a cool route to take, and I love it.
Gavin:
In the way that all kids rebel against their parents, did you think to yourself, oh shit, I can’t be gay, I need to be straight to piss my parents out. Oh, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:
So I was actually, it was more so I was scared that like there was such a stigma around because I had two dads that I was going to be gay myself, and like oh yeah, it was it was stigmatized that like my parents would influence that decision, or it would be because of my parents that I was gay. So like I didn’t even want to come out, and I I waited until I was about 18 or 19 years old to come out because I didn’t want people to like be right about that. Yeah, they didn’t really influence it, it was just more so like it was what it was, and that’s just kind of how the cookie crumbled, and I love it.
David:
But like there was an ego there, right? Of like you’re like they said, I remember that too. Listen, I was a chubby figure skater who liked musical theater. The writing was not only on the wall, it was a neon sign blaring at me. And when people were like, you should just come out, I did exactly that. I was like, no, I’m definitely not gay. You think I’m gay? I’m definitely not gay. I think a lot of people would assume, oh, you’re being raised by two gay gay dads. There’s no reason to come out, you’re just automatically gay.
SPEAKER_00:
Right, exactly. My parents, and they were surprised. Like, honestly, they were surprised. And I was like, wow, I hit it really well.
Gavin:
Oh, for better or for worse.
SPEAKER_00:
Those those late nights with Charlotte, you know, like the NYU student that I was seeing when I was 17 years old.
Gavin:
Wow. I so many questions about just growing up in New York City. I don’t know that we’ve had many people even talking about that, which is a completely different thing. But interesting, if you ever had kids, would you try to avoid raising them in New York for that over?
SPEAKER_00:
100%, yeah. And I also just like I like the idea of like being close to City, but having enough space to like, you know, let them grow up and kind of like I want to give my kids their free time and have them do what they do, but like educate them obviously on kind of the risks and things associated and like build that trust. My parents and I had a very kind of back and forth relationship. It was very give and take kind of like I’ll give you a little and then like take a little. It was, you know, it is what it is, but um, you know, I want my kids to have like the space to grow up and not all the outside influence with eight million people, you know, on top of them.
Gavin:
Yeah, trying to overcome each other and one-up each other in all of their fabulosity. But were you did you know any other kids of gay parents growing up?
SPEAKER_00:
Yes, I did. There was like five of us on the Fire Island Pines that were essentially the Fire Island kids, and like they there were three, I believe, that were actually kids of gay parents, and then there were like two that were contractors child children that like just came out every weekend. Um, so yeah, we had our little clan out there, but other than that, I really haven’t met that many people, let alone now in the community like myself. Like I haven’t met people. TikTok has been good for that because there have been certain people that have been like, oh yeah, I’m gay too. That’s usually lesbians. Um, but but for the most part, like I haven’t really experienced that except for you know the people now on Fire Island, or when I was leaving, like towards I guess it was like 2011 or something like that, maybe a little older. Um, there were a lot of parents now adopting kids and like or you know, Sarrogacy, and there were tons of kids out there, but growing up it was scarce. There was virtually no one.
David:
Yeah, yeah. I I want to go back a little bit to your your parents and your if you can even remember or the or feel this was when did you realize that you’re you had parents that were other? Because I fear that for my kid because my kid is so blissfully unaware. He’s like, these are my two dads, and as front, you know, he’s in kindergarten. So he’s like, it’s just everything is normal, nobody really considers anything. But I know the day is coming when he’s gonna realize, wait, this isn’t no this isn’t what everyone else has. Do you remember that moment?
SPEAKER_00:
I think I like I don’t think it was like an aha moment. I think it was gradual over time because we used to read this book that was like, all families are all different types of colors, and it was like purple, red, you know what I mean? And it would kind of break down like in you know, childish or elementary terms, like what race is, what sexuality is, stuff like that. So I think that that was like a soft launch of it. And then once I really realized was then when we were talking about my mother, because like obviously that had come up. I I had a babysitter growing up, so like I always associated her as kind of my motherly figure. So I think in the beginning of my life, I didn’t really notice that she wasn’t my mom. I thought she just was, and you know, she would be there every morning and everything. She was just paid, right?
David:
Because my mom was paid to be with her. Exactly. There you go. Right, exactly.
SPEAKER_00:
Um, but yeah, and then we were sitting down on the couch one night, and I think that that’s when I really noticed like that my dynamic was different. Um, I had already known I was gay. Like I knew since I was a kindergarten that I was gay. I thought the teacher was hot, you know what I mean? Literally, I thought my kindergarten teacher was hot, and he was gay, which was ironic.
David:
So I had a lot of you guys could smell each other from a mile away. Right, literally. Yeah, literally. Oh my god. I remember I remember my fifth grade gym teacher, Mr. Fremiran. He had these short shorts, gym teachers. Oh, yes, because they’re they’re athletic and there’s just a power there, you know. Oh, yeah.
Gavin:
Yeah, I think most of my gym teachers growing up were lesbians, actually. Now that I really haven’t had that thought yet, but that did not sway me.
David:
But there was queer there’s queer energy from gym teachers. Yeah, oh, 100%.
SPEAKER_00:
They have that, yeah, 100%. They tease you, they know what they’re doing. Yeah, yeah.
Gavin:
Oh, it would be so fascinating to live in a world where it none of this is weird, and to think that um, wow, I mean, uh the the a higher percentage it are there more than just 10% queers out there who need to have a safe space to just live their lives. And um, but I won’t go down that path of nostalgia. No, I was gonna say this is getting way too uh tier adjacent. Um, but um uh were were you ever um did you ever try to hide the fact that you had uh gay parents from any of your friends or that?
SPEAKER_00:
100%. Yes, because it was all it was looked at both ways, like I was automatically judged for it, or it was you know something in which I would have to like go beat up a kid because like they were you know yeah, derogatory towards my parents or just saying like hateful shit towards my parents. So I did a lot of that honestly growing up was like defending my like parents. They I got suspended. I like you know, that type of thing because I would I’m the type of person where they did raise me not to let people mess with me, so I’m not gonna let people mess with me. Wow, well, that’s that’s good trouble, right?
David:
That’s the good trouble you’ve got. Right.
SPEAKER_00:
I those days were the best, those suspension days, like because it was like I, you know, the kid said fag or whatever, and I would go handle it.
David:
Yeah, I love it. You’re like, I’m gonna go handle this, Dad. So I’ll be right back.
Gavin:
So, how has that mentality informed your business decisions and how you run your company?
SPEAKER_00:
I think in the like it’s they’re kind of parallel, honestly. Like when I started my company, I was very much so driven and and I was motivated to like just shut everybody out of business type of thing. And I was just like, you know, excelling, excelling, excelling. And I after a while, I kind of just developed this flow where I would be like, yes, no, yes, no. And like I I feel I filled the CEO role a lot more than I thought I was comfortable with initially when I started. Um, so now I actually look at myself as the CEO rather than like I’m just doing this for fun because it’s turned into like, you know, such a legitimate business. But in the beginning, like it was that kind of apprehension initially. But like once you do it the first time, like once I handled one of those kids the first time, nobody wanted to really handle like mess with me again. But like if they did, they knew that like I would stand up for myself. So you kind of get bullied a little bit and like toughen up, and then once you you know realize like what you’re capable of, you that’s when you I think push forward. And so in my business, I’ve done the same thing.
David:
And you realize that so much of that is counted on like they count on you backing down from all of those threats, right? That that is inherent in it. And when you stand up, they’re like, fuck.
SPEAKER_00:
I think exactly they want to say something, and then once once I say something about it, they either try to like you know gaslight you into saying like you’re crazy for feeling the way you feel, which then I’m gonna go double as hard at that point because I’m not gonna be told I’m crazy. But or or they just like are like, dude, what what’s the problem? Like, I didn’t mean to do this, blah, blah, blah. And it’s like, okay, so shut the fuck up. You know.
Gavin:
So you advise people on renting a plane and or buying a plane, right? Correct. So that means you know all of the details from what General Electric slash Rolls-Royce engine there is, plus the thread count on the sheets that come in the beds in the back.
David:
Yeah, plus how many bricks of cocaine can fit into that area. Kilos of gold. Yeah, absolutely, and bodies and all the things.
Gavin:
Yeah, yeah. I bet you have a put your finger on the pulse of the world economy right now, too. Do you have any economic advice based on what people are buying or renting? What’s our own?
SPEAKER_00:
Gold is the gold. Yeah, isn’t it too late?
Gavin:
I mean, the fact that it seems already a little too late, but like the feeling the fact that Gatriarchs, this is the finest news um source for Americans, obviously. But if we are giving advice to buy gold, I’m pretty sure that means it’s now time to sell your gold, frankly. Let’s do gold.
David:
Just do the opposite of whatever we say. Right, right.
Gavin:
So, with your taste in planes, I’m curious. How often are you watching a movie or a TV show and go, damn, that’s a nice plane?
SPEAKER_00:
Or I go like most of the time, I’m like, damn, that’s fake. Like, I’m like, I just like me, honestly, I’m like looking at it, I’m like, damn, that’s not even a real, they couldn’t even do this the right way. Um, but you know, for the most part, I don’t really like I deal a lot with obviously very high-end aircraft. So for me, like Kim Kardashian’s jet is tacky and it’s a hundred and fifty million dollar plane. You know what I mean? I should don’t come for me, Kim. I’m sorry. But like it’s it’s she’s definitely a listener.
Gavin:
But if she wants to be a guest on Gatriarchs, please come to us Kingdom. We’d love to have you.
SPEAKER_00:
No, but like it’s it’s I think there are a lot of planes. I don’t, I would never actually I’m not gonna say that, but I would never personally invest in in an aircraft. I just think that it’s kind of, you know, you have to have a lot of money on an annual basis to do it. And like it’s just not really something that, you know, I don’t think a lot of people they think they can afford it, obviously. And then once they start getting into like the numbers, you you have to be hundreds of millions of dollars of rich to be able to afford something like that.
Gavin:
But don’t most people like rent it out to other people while it’s not being used.
SPEAKER_00:
Yeah, so that’s how it works, actually, is like you’ll have the owner up here, then the operator, which is like the charter operator, essentially, where like the brokerage like that’s underneath that can like gets the clientele to bring up to the operator. So essentially, like the owner, though, is the one that authorizes sometimes. They have what’s called owner approval, so they have to authorize the usage of it every single time, but it’s given to an operator that’s to recoup some of the you know overhead, but then you’re flying it 400 hours a month or something like that, and it’s just like getting used and abused, plus, you don’t really know who’s flying your aircraft and how it’s being treated. So it’s hard to invest in something that’s worth so much and then hand it off to somebody basically blindly that’s going to lock you into like an agreement that you don’t know anything about.
David:
Because then it’s like an Airbnb. You’re like, what parties are happening on this plane? What sort of DNA are now on the walls? What sort of lists? Speaking of palm beach private flights, what sort of secret lists am I on that I don’t want to be on? I mean, it’s like people buying these huge mega gods. It’s like it’s not like the$150 million price tag, it’s the the crew and the fuel costs and all the shit that’s that’s that’s going on.
SPEAKER_00:
That’s crazy. You could buy like half fire island almost for that. Well, not anymore.
Gavin:
If only, if only. So Ethan, um real question.
SPEAKER_00:
Yes. Are you in the Mile High Club? No, not yet. I want I’m in the I’m in the airport club, not the Mile High Club.
David:
Oh, I like the airport club. That’s nice. The airport club. I’m in the behind the airport dumpster club. There you go. So I’m working my way up to the terminal. Yeah, that’s my goal. That’s my goal. Wait, I want to go back a little bit to to to your dad’s. And I know you had told me that you’d like to be a dad someday. So I’m curious from a son’s point of view of two gay dads, do you have advice for our gay dad listeners? For those of us who may think we may might be raising a gay kid. Listen, we don’t know.
SPEAKER_00:
What should do?
David:
I don’t know how to be good supportive gay parents for a gay child because it is it is a unique, weirdly niche problem, not problem to have, is that you don’t want to you don’t want to fuck it up, period. But I just think you have such a unique window. So, like for any gay dads out there who might be raising a queer kid, any advice from your point of view?
SPEAKER_00:
I think gays in general are very like don’t like we don’t want to fuck anything up. So, like, I think for especially parents, like parents just need to like lay off a little bit just in general, but gay parents is like like imagine that but double because it’s it’s one of those things where I think like a lot of like at least my parents’ generation, they didn’t have such a wonderful upbringing in terms of like the acceptance, even now, which is still requires a lot of work, but yeah, we’ve come leaps and bounds from what it used to be in terms of when my parents were growing up. So they project a lot of kind of like controlling or manipulative like behaviors because they want to live out almost like their side of it through their child because they didn’t get to have that open of an experience. And like, I think just like laying off a little bit and kind of letting your child discover who they are, rather than like you trying to discover through your child who you are, and then like kind of ruining maybe their childhood a little bit or their kind of upbringing and not letting them identify and see who they are themselves. I think that that’s probably the biggest piece of advice because my parents were great. They, you know, they sometimes were a little too laid off with certain things that they needed to be more kind of um, I guess, strict or stricter on, or just like helicopter me a little bit more around or on.
Gavin:
Um, thank goodness you’re giving me permission to do that.
David:
Oh god, I was that’s literally what I was just thinking is please don’t encourage Gaben because he is the most helicopter-y helicopter parent.
SPEAKER_00:
Oh, there’s worse, but that’s the thing, is like I’ve you know, just kind of like letting them flow. And and you know, be their authentic selves with your guidance, obviously, on how to be gay and like what to look out for. Because a lot of people that do grow up in the gay community that may have gay parents, they didn’t necessarily grow up in New York City. So like I had the backbone of like, you know, I don’t take shit from other people, but like in these urban or these suburban communities, maybe or whatever it may be, like these kids could get bullied and like get killed or something like that. Like they need to be able to like have their own backbone to like know when danger’s coming, or you and it’s sad to say that, but just like in general, like making sure that they’re equipped with the proper people reading or skills or techniques, and you know, that they’re well educated on when to kick somebody’s ass, basically, when they need to.
David:
I so appreciate that about New York City. I think people shit on the city. We all, especially people who live here, we all hate the city, but we all love it. But one of the things is like it really does keep it toppens you up in a way that I think is very, very valuable, where like there is this like apologist quiet culture of the South and maybe even the Midwest, where like you don’t have that, and like you said, that can lead to really fucked up things that you’re not just willing to like stand up for yourself and punch somebody in the face, like that girl who punched that other girl. Did you see that where she was like the one conservative girl was interviewing her and calling her like a baby killer or whatever? And she fucking just she fucking just boxed her in the mouth. Yes, and I was like, Oh, I love this.
SPEAKER_00:
That is such a New York thing.
Gavin:
Uh, speaking of the gay community, I um David had told me before that you do lament what the gay community was.
SPEAKER_00:
Yes, what do you think about I think there was like a real community now? It’s just people like bitches pulling each other’s wigs off, you know what I mean? Like it’s like it’s like people are so involved in other people’s shit, like and need to be if they make it like their own shit that then they like start spewing shit about, or like you know, they project their lives or how they would do things uh into other people’s lives, and kind of like you know, just there’s a lot of hate going on behind the curtain, I think. And like, yes, we stand for love, we stand for community, but like it used to feel like more of a community in that like you had the back of the the person that you you did your your brother or sister you didn’t even know, you know what I mean. Nowadays it’s just like how do I drag this bitch through the mud and like you know, talk shit about them and try to like cancel them. The cancel culture is like a real thing, and I think that it’s really kind of toxic.
David:
So I often wonder though, I’ve said this before in the show, I often wonder if that kind of change in the gay culture, because I know exactly what you’re talking about. I feel it exactly. When I was in college, I feel like if you found out somebody was gay, automatic brother, automatic, you know what I mean, automatic is is in line with kind of our general treatment by culture in general, where we now have gay marriage. Now we are we are in media, we are in the world away where we don’t need that community in a way, where before if you had to bring each other closer, you’re gonna get fucking murdered. Right, right. And so I I wonder as our society, as we start wearing our big red dresses, and as we start pray praying to uh Lord Trump, is if as those rights are eroded away, I wonder if that community will start to come back strongly. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_00:
Unfortunately, that’s generally what happens, I feel like, but I feel like it shouldn’t have to take that type of, you know, I guess breakdown for us to like band together as a community. I think that like that’s what it should be, is like a community because there’s so many people that lost their lives, you know, for what we have now. And I think that like it’s a bad example, or we set a bad example in their honor for how we treat one another present day. I think that like, you know, because these people didn’t have the opportunity to enjoy or live through what we get, like we should enjoy it for them as if they would they were here, you know. Um, so I think that that’s a big thing, and it is now it’s just all a competition or you know, a pissing match as to who can do this or or who can do who better, literally.
Gavin:
Yeah, and all and also just uh uh uh our attention deficit societal disorder of just like you know, we’re all drawn like a moth to the fire for violence and canceling and and whatnot. And so I mean it’s not just the gay community, I think, that suffers from that, it’s everybody, but in particular the gay community, I agree, yeah.
David:
So, Ethan, rounding out the the interview, I I know that we had talked a little bit about you wanting to be a dad, which I I love. And so I’m curious from your pre-dad position, which was where you’re at, is what are some things, what are some things that you imagine you’re gonna be great at as a gay dad? And what are some things that you think you’re not gonna be so great at?
SPEAKER_00:
Um, I don’t think I’m gonna be great at keeping up with all the chores around the house. I think that that’s gonna be a very difficult task and and the constant laundry potentially is probably gonna be the hardest thing for me.
David:
Um I’ve done three loads of laundry just. I literally I’ve been washing every blanket in my house upstairs all day.
SPEAKER_00:
That’s well, that’s the good thing, is because my partner now he’s great with laundry and he loves doing we like balance each other out in that sense. Like I love doing the nitty-gritty kind of cleaning, and he likes to do all the the stuff like organizing and stuff like that that I can’t stand. Um, but I think that that’s gonna be like the hardest thing. And then I think I’m gonna be really good at kind of the socialization aspect and like being able to like guide my child into the world and like let them be there, but like, you know, be the backbone that they need um in terms of just being strong. And like my my babysitter, and I get a lot of this from her, when I fell on the park, or somebody some kid pushed me when I was like five or six years old in the playground, and I ran over to her crying and screaming and like you know, hoping for some sort of I guess a treatment or whatever. And she’s like, if you don’t go back there and kick his ass, I’m sitting you in time out on this bench right now. Oh that’s kind of like she would push me in ways that like you know were were like helpful for me. So that’s kind of what I want to bring to my child. Um, you know, and I I think that that’s that’s something that I’m good at. I’m good at I feel like leading. So I think that that’s something that like I think for my child that you know I’d like to to kind of implement into their their life and have them take on or pass on.
Gavin:
Leading us into a better world, one black eye at a time. Right, or kind of a jet, depending on where you rent it.
David:
I can punch a bitch and I can also rent to a really lovely jet. Um, exactly.
Gavin:
You know what we’ve never done, David, is record an episode of Pot of Gatriarchs from a plane. So I think someday we should charter a Gatriarchs flight. Love it. Ethan and just record from um up on high just because, just for the novelty of it. That would be fun.
David:
And and then you can join the Mile High Club finally.
Gavin:
I wasn’t implying that, yes, but sure. We’ll we’ll it’ll be a package deal.
David:
Oh my god. Ethan, thank you so much for meeting yourself by being on our stupid little podcast. This has been very informative, and I and I love your your point of view. And I also think that you’re gonna be a great dad because you’re going into it with this like excitement of taking stuff that worked in your childhood and excited to change some things that didn’t. And that I think that specific point of view is always the best way to make a dad. Right. Yeah, absolutely. So thank you so much for coming. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. So obviously, we talked in act one about me traveling a lot. One of the things I discovered on this recent flight uh in and out of Chicago, O’Hare, was uh United now on their little television platform has an opportunity for you to listen to air traffic control live.
Gavin:
And so the guy I know nothing about the world, yeah, but I do know that you have been allowed. If there were radio signals of of some kind, you’ve been able to do that since the 80s and probably since the 50s.
David:
But not on your plane, your pilot live talking to somebody else.
Gavin:
Yes. I know somebody who used to work for American Airlines out of Dallas. He’s my uncle, my great uncle. No, my uncle once removed, whatever, an uncle, a family member, who said that he used to, that’s what he lived for in like the 80s, that you could listen to it somehow. Anyway, sorry, I’m just shitting. You’re just shitting all over myself. Great. It’s fine. It’s fine.
unknown:
But it’s fine.
Gavin:
And all over your moment of awe. So anyway, sorry, right back to you.
David:
It’s amazing how you shit all over me. I mean, I’m the victim here. I would like everyone, all the listener out there to understand. But what it was so fun because I, first of all, they were like, oh, we’re the only airline who’s doing it right now. But I was like a little nervous because they were they first said, like, here’s what the flight number is. You’ll because you hear a lot of different things. And I was like, is this gonna make me feel more scared to fly? More, more confident? Like, what am I gonna feel? Or or very in the moment, because you’re like, I am focused on our plane, right? Well, that’s that’s what it ended up being was like, I didn’t understand a lot of the shit because it’s just a bunch of numbers and alphas and bravos, you don’t know what’s going on. But then I heard our guy say, blah, blah, blah, blah, and the air traffic control says, go ahead, um, turn right at this degree is heading, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then the plane started turning right. And I was like, he listened. How fun is that? I don’t know why. I was it was that and watching Abbott Elementary, but I was just like, this is super fun. So if you go on a United flight, you go under under the tabs, go under audio. It’s like movies, TV, audio, go under audio, and you’ll find it in there. And it was super fun. So yeah. No, you had to choose.
Gavin:
Was it constant banter in your ears?
David:
It was. I only I only listened at takeoff because I didn’t, because after a while, I was like, this is boring. And also, once they’re at cruising altitude, there’s not a lot of chit-chatting. Um, but I did want to hear kind of like what I did want to hear is like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. You know. Although also not funny at all. Not funny. God, this has been a really dark episode. I apologize, listener. Uh sorry. Just skip to the next one.
Gavin:
Uh, well, my something great this week is uh super um uh entertainment oriented just because I have two friends who are opening Broadway shows this week. And I am so stoked for them. Stacy Arnold, uh, who is no, excuse me, Stacy McClesky. I just inverted their name. Stacy McClesky, who is probably not a listener of the show, though she should be, is opening in is it boop, the musical about Betty Boop. And then Jackie Arnold is a they’re both leads, also like front row of uh the bows, or and um Jackie Arnold is opening in Smash, and I am just so stoked for them. And I’m I’m a little jealous, of course. I’m watching their videos of their shows and everything, and I’m like, uh, I do miss it. I do miss it. So, you know, it is that season openers of all of these shows for the Tony season, and that is always something great.
David:
And that’s our but if you have any comments, suggestions, or general compliments, compliments, stop it. You can email us at Gatriarchspodcast at gmail.com.
Gavin:
Or you can delta um mango us on Instagram. We are at Gatriarchspodcast on the internet. David is at DavidFm Bond everywhere, and Gavin is at GavinLodge in your ears in the air. Please leave us a glowing five-star review wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks, and we’ll share our opening night with you next time on another episode of Gatriarchs. So welcome to Gatriarch’s After Dark. Oh, Jesus. Where we ask a few more dark and dirty questions. Ethan, tell us about your grinder uh thing. Uh grinder thing? Trip.
SPEAKER_00:
Yeah, what is your travel? Yeah, what is it? So I got messaged by this, I guess this casting agency, and I thought, oh my god, this is gonna be like a porno thing, like whatever. Yeah. And it almost went to spam. It looked like literally, right? Yeah. So this was on election day, actually, of 2025. So it was or 24. What am I saying?
David:
When we when we were still positive and optimistic. Right, exactly. So, like, and you’re like, and then you got this email from Colby Knox. You’re like, oh my god, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:
I was like, Where is he next? Um but but yeah, so I it was this casting agency that was in Spain, and I was like, okay, well, this is a bit strange. And they were telling me like what the project was, and essentially it’s grinders poster travel. So they go, you you go around the world essentially and visit other places as if you were a local yourself, and that’s kind of you know the premise, and and you get to utilize grinder to be able to meet people and kind of use it in a different way that than one usually does.
Gavin:
Um let’s be real.
SPEAKER_00:
So they were like, we think you would be great for this project. Like they were the casting agency, so they had to like take all of our submissions, and then the grinder team evidently, or you know, kind of was the eventual decider in that. But I submitted my my whatever, my uh what do you call them? A casting tape or a cast, it was not on the single though.
Gavin:
Did you have to sing and um dance or anything? Was there 16 bars?
SPEAKER_00:
No, there was not any of that, and there was no like dick sucking or anything else like involved there. But essentially, like we so I I just told them like why I love to travel, who I am, where I grew up, what you know, kind of like similar to this. And I get a call or an email, I guess two days later. At this point, Trump had had declared his presidency, so we were all kind of depressed. And this was my one thing, you know, that the my one silver lining, because I I had the opportunity to potentially go somewhere out of the country. Um, but they they wanted to set up a I guess uh interview with the director, and the director and I like hit it off immediately. And he’s he was great. I mean, he’s my age, which was crazy. Um, but yeah, and so he really liked me and then submitted me to the grinder team. And they, you know, they were like, yes, let’s let’s do this. So they flew me out to Taipei, which is you know, a place I had never been, and it was for three days. I mean, it was the craziest thing I think I’ve ever done. I’ve done some pretty like pretty crazy shit. This was like really one of the most special, like kind of like identity moments for myself, because it wasn’t just like the kid that had two dads that I’m known for. It was like me that like it, you know, it was a very special moment. And like I think that being able to see such a different place of the world and see how they look at gay individuals as being Asia, China, like specifically, but they’re the only place in in the that area that really I guess accepts or acknowledges the community, yeah. And they do it, like they they are very in your face about it, and it’s very accepting. Like, I was walking around with a drag queen named Sandra Ho in the middle of the markets at night, and like I mean, we could barely even walk. There were so many people I wanted to take photos, there were so many people that like loved kind of what we were doing, and it was just a very cool experience to see that. So, yeah, that’s coming out on Thursday, and I’m very, very excited to show Thursday. What what’s the date? That’s the 24th.
David:
Oh, perfect. So tomorrow. It comes out tomorrow. No, awesome. Well, no, tomorrow tomorrow when this airs. Oh, tomorrow, yeah. So yes. Yeah, sorry, listen. Yeah, sorry, listen. Spoiler. We’re we’re we’re pulling the you know the the the fourth wall. Yeah, yeah.
Gavin:
Um, and where do we catch this? Is do you have to do that? So it’s gonna be on their YouTube, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:
So it’s gonna be on their YouTube platform as well as their um Instagram.
David:
So everyone out there, download the app grinder, and when your husband gets mad at you, you could say, I’m just here to watch the video.
SPEAKER_00:
Right, exactly. You’re you you’re watching a new TV.
David:
No, I’m just watching TV, guys.
Gavin:
Don’t worry. It’s education and information. Well, Ethan, thank you for sharing that, and thank you for being here on our first new series called Gatriarch’s After Dark. We’re not calling it that.