Full Transcript
Hold on, there’s an airplane going over his head. We’re right in the flight path to a um National Guard place, so we have big ass helicopters going over sometimes.
David:
Like the dual rotary ones that where you feel like you’re in the beginning of a zombie apocalypse movie.
Gavin:
And you can feel it in your nether regions when it flies over. And this is Patriarchs. So I was with my kid uh at the New England Air Museum, and we did an overnight with the scouts. We can talk about scouts another time. I know, I know. But we were so there we are, and it was we were sleeping under airplanes on the concrete, which was its own thing. But even then, uh my kid is uh he’s 10 years old, and I don’t understand why my kids can’t slow the fuck down. Whenever we have a cultural experience that I, of course, force feed to them, uh, and they do begrudgingly, they just are are incapable of just walking around and absorbing the stuff around them. I have the most unzen-like children on the entire planet. And even my 10-year-old, here’s these massive planes and jets and helicopters, and there’s these old guys who are volunteers who are like showing you how the helicopter works, and you can get in and move the pedals and move the stuff around and whatnot. And yet still, my kid A just wanted to run outside and play soccer, and B, could not just like stand and gawk at it all. And I just wonder, when are they ever gonna slow the fuck down?
David:
43. Uh I’m I’m slowing down and I’m 43.
Gavin:
Were do were you able to, I don’t know. I mean, yes, a 10-year-old, do they want to be in a museum? Are they gonna read the panels? Are they gonna whatever? I don’t know. I was interested in history though, sort of, wasn’t I? I mean, I don’t think so.
David:
I just remember I remember that feeling as a kid just being like, I want to move, I don’t want to sit here and do all these things. And then as as I got older, looking back and being like, now I want to do those things. And maybe it’s just like those things aren’t meant for people with that kind of that level of brain.
Gavin:
And should we force them? My mom forced me to walk through museums when I was a kid, and I hated it. I hated it. So why am I inflicting the same torture on my own kids, right? But like, if he doesn’t, I don’t know, learn something about uh Vietnam era helicopters because we’re there in the museum, like what is he ever gonna learn? He’s not gonna learn it from YouTube, is he? It’s so tough. I mean, I’ve got family uh overseas, actually, they’re adoptive family in France, and they’re always like, oh, our French granddaughter is contemplative and she stares at the leaves and she thinks big thoughts. And I’m like, is that because she’s French? I mean, do they put something in their is in their breast milk that the kids are more philosophical in France, and that I have two chickens running around with their heads cut off all the time? I wish they would slow down and be contemplative and Frenchy philosophical, but I uh it’s a constant struggle, you know?
David:
But you know that when that happens, you’re immediately gonna be like, oh, I miss when you would just run around and you were off the walls. Um, you know what I miss? What? Everyone not being sick in my house. Oh, you’re still sick? No, but see here’s the thing everyone is sick all the time, and then when everyone is not sick, one person kind of goes out of a corner, and then I’m like, oh no, oh no, I’m gonna go.
Gavin:
I’m gonna pinch you in the face.
David:
So we all just as you all know, we all just went through butt strep last month. And I’ve told that story to so many people.
Gavin:
Everybody in Connecticut knows about butt strep.
David:
I’ve gotten too many texts being like butt strip. So I know we have a lot of listeners because I’m getting a lot of texts, but um, I everyone was healthy, everyone was at the end of their antibiotics, everyone was healthy. My daughter had an eye, she had two pink eyes throughout this whole time. And then the other morning, she fucking wakes up and her eye is all goopy. And I’m like, no, no. Because what is my first thought? The health of my daughter? No. No, the the the yeah, it’s that she would have to miss daycare. She’s gonna that is literally my first thought. And so what I learned was what I tried to do when one kid was sick was try to keep that kid away from other kids so not everyone gets sick.
Gavin:
I mean, they are children of COVID, so of course you know how to isolate quarantine.
David:
But I but what I learned is that you fucking can’t because when you’re holding her walking down the stairs like this morning, she will sneeze directly into your eyeballs. She will just sneeze right into your open eyes. So there’s no way I’m trying to keep their bottles away from each other. They each they each have sippy cups. I’m like, this is your sippy cup and this is your sippy cup. Immediately, all they want is the other sippy cup. And so I think what I’ve learned is when one kid is sick, everyone get together and just sneeze on each other right away. Yeah, let’s just all get sick together because what happens is one kid gets sick, and then on the tail end of their sickness, the next kid gets sick, and then my husband gets sick, and now everyone has stretched this week-long illness into a month. So here’s the trick everyone just sneeze into each other’s mouths the first day. Everyone gets sick for a couple days, but but that’s that’s been what’s going on in our house is that keeping kids apart doesn’t work.
Gavin:
This definitely does remind me of I I am hey, I’m the king of dating myself in this, but we used to have chicken pox parties in my neighborhood growing up. And you, you know, somebody gets it and then they send all the other kids over, and you you you rip that band-aid off as fast as you possibly can.
David:
So absolutely. And then you ride the big old tiny bicycle with a big front wheel and a tiny back wheel, and you yeah. Um, and then the last thing I want to say in our our follow-up before we move on to our topics is um uh uh like five episodes ago, I had mentioned something about an underwear catalog that was really slutty when I was a kid. Remember, we were talking with the military dads, and I could not think about it. I couldn’t think what the name was, and I got a text this morning uh from uh one of our listeners slash previous guest, Justin Gomlat Greer, and he said it was called International Male. Yes, you remember that catalog? That catalog was so slutty. Oh my god. It was an underwear catalog for men, but every one of the photos was like a sheer white fabric where you could clearly see this dick in these underwears, and that was the hottest porn I had ever seen in my life.
Gavin:
You do have to wonder the marketing scheme behind that. I mean, but it must have been gay men behind it, and they were doing a service to the rest of the country, you know. I mean, this was activism through journalism, I suppose. Absolutely. Yeah. Fredericks of Hollywood, though, that’s uh they circulated around my dorm, I remember in college, and um, I mean, they had some pretty slutty men in those, like, you know, pages 16 and 17. And it was uh it was a truncated version, but oof, there was some international mail going on in Fredericks of Hollywood for sure. Hey, David, let’s talk about poop, shall we?
David:
Well, I mean, we do that a lot on this podcast.
Gavin:
So I um so as I’ve been lamenting and talking about uh probably too much, uh, even though I’m trying to limit it a little bit, I’ve been solo dad for a while, and that means all of the cleaning is on my shoulders. I wish that I could say I task it with to my kids, but I mean ultimately I forget to ask them, and so I just do it myself, right? Cleaning a toilet reminds me of every single time, like for instance, our previous guest, Ellen, I think I can imitate her by saying, uh Ellen Marsh saying, Boys are disgusting. Disgusting. Our toilets, I don’t understand what I do, what my kid, what my son does. Like, I don’t understand what a mess we make, right? But if you, for instance, I was wiping a bit of toilet paper down on the floor around the base of the toilet, and I’m like, how is this so multicolored? I don’t understand what has run down there, right? I mean, I know we pee all over the place. We pee all over the walls, it splashes everywhere, it’s dripping around the bowl. We are fucking disgusting.
David:
We’re just a great advertisement for parenting. But like, come join us, your your entire bathroom will be covered in piss.
Gavin:
And you’ll be reminded that you, as a man, are a disgusting person as well. And I’m trying to teach my son, of course, to pee and lift up the seat when he pees. Jesus.
David:
I try to I try to do aim like some people do Cheerios or whatever. I’ve been trying, but because my son will just pee in whatever position he wants and it just shoots up into the sky. I’ve been trying to point to the hole, you know, like the base of the toilet. And he sometimes does that, but sometimes he’s like looking up in the air. Of course he is. Yeah, yeah. It is disgusting.
Gavin:
I I mean, I was when I first got to the city uh in the 19, what, 1953, 1954, I was working at a restaurant and I had a really funny manager there who said, I don’t know what you boys do in that bathroom, but why does the men’s room smell so much worse than the women’s room, right? And she had a secret that she read somewhere, I don’t know, it was Pinterest circa 1953, that if you put a glass of espresso beans behind the toilet, it would actually mitigate the smell a little bit. But I remember having to clean like late at night or early um before our shifts had started or whatever, and I happened to, you know, I have to peek into the women’s room as part of my responsibilities, and I’m like, it really does not smell in here. Like, how on earth does a public women’s restroom not smell like a men’s room does? I don’t I don’t understand it.
David:
What I gotta assume at times it does. I gotta assume at times the women’s room is filled with just putrid smells. But yeah, maybe maybe women are just better than men.
Gavin:
I I mean, there’s a str a lot of strong arguments to be made for that. Um so then going down the toilet talk, also, I sometimes feel like such a prude when I feel like there are times to rip a fart and there are times not to rip a fart, right? Like yes, Nana’s funeral is not a great time to let one rip, but I was reading Harry Potter the other night. We were all cozy. My son and I just laying in his bed and reading Harry Potter, and my daughter was listening on the floor. She’s like, Oh, I missed this from a couple of years ago, and I’m like, and then Harry, uh, who knows, whatever, you know, Voldemort, Voldemort, Harry, Harry, and suddenly we hear and I’m like, Did you have to do it right when I was, you know, in a sweet part of Harry Potter? And she’s like, I can’t help it.
David:
I’m like, Were you more mad that your performance was interrupted? That you feel like you were carrying this like emotional journey for the audience?
Gavin:
Yes. Yes, it was an interruption. That’s what it was. And I feel like, I mean, am I obnoxious thinking that there is a time to rip it? But maybe in the middle of Harry Potter when we’re we’re calming down for the night is not the time to rip it. I know. I’m I’m insufferable.
David:
What do you think? I mean, I I I hear what you’re saying. Like, yes, don’t there are some times, but also like kids at this age are just fucking all they all all they want, which is still how I am, is a laugh. A laugh at any cost. A laugh at any cost. So like my son’s is the same way. Like the amount of times he says butthole just because he knows it’ll get a laugh from me is obscene. So yeah, I gotta give it to the kids. Like they’re just they’re just there for the comedy.
Gavin:
My daughter says sharp incessantly. That’s all we hear. I’ve probably talked about this already, and I’ve forgotten because I hear it so much. I’m forgetting that I’m talking about it so much, but I’m so tired of hearing shart. But when did I become such a prude? Uh embrace the farts and the sharts, I suppose.
David:
Well, with that, why don’t we move on to our top three list? Finally. Okay, so this week, um, our top three list is top three baby drag names. And um, instead of me going, I’m gonna pinch hit, which is a sports reference, I think, right? Is that about baseball?
Gavin:
I’ve been pinch something, I guess.
David:
Yeah, I’m gonna pinch it off, and I’m actually gonna bunt to my husband, uh, Brian, who is gonna be our special guest this week, and do the top three baby drag names because he is a punster, and this is his entire life. So uh take it away, Brian. What are your top three baby drag names?
SPEAKER_01:
Well, listener, first time caller. Um, so I had a million of these, and I had to narrow it down to three because that’s the rule.
Gavin:
So maybe someday when we have show notes, we’ll we’ll list your other 999,000 of them.
SPEAKER_01:
Yes, I’ll give you all the rejects. But in the Greek tradition of drag, I started with a lot of female performers, and from my references, you’ll see I’m a thousand years old. So um three baby drag queen name, Druly Andrews. I’m hearing these for the first time too, by the way.
Gavin:
I like it, I like it.
SPEAKER_01:
Number two in a similar vein, Doris Daycare. Oh god. All right, my number one, which is a totally different approach. Number one, baby drag queen name, Erin Fection. Oh, that was really good.
David:
That was a little good. That was good, Brian. That was that was excellent.
Gavin:
You came out, um, you you scored a home run to further David’s terrible metaphors here, but something like that.
David:
Thank you, Brian. That is uh Brian’s top three baby drag names, and it’s up to you now, Gaven. What’s your top three baby drag names?
Gavin:
I don’t I don’t know that this is a natural talent of mine, but I did uh come up with a few that I thought if I were a baby drag queen, uh I wouldn’t be embarrassed to be named these. Number three, creamy spitupa. Okay. Creamy spituppa is my number three. Number two is Bebeyance.
David:
That’s a good one. That’s a good one.
Gavin:
And finally, at number one, my number one die is Aria.
David:
Oh, that’s a good one. Um, when I was trying to come on my own, I thought Lady Goo Goo instead of Lady Gaga. But yeah, okay. That was that was a good list. All right, what is next week’s list?
Gavin:
Next week, we’re gonna talk about the three things, the three top things that your child has done inadvertently that were wildly inappropriate. Father’s Day was just a couple of days ago. Two days ago? Three days ago. How sweet was your father’s day, David?
David:
Well, first of all, gay guys get fucking shafted on Father’s Day. Gabin just spit out his frontia. Gay guys get fucking shafted.
Gavin:
Shafted And not in the good. I mean, obviously. Obviously, not in the good way, obviously.
David:
Two dads. Yeah. There’s nobody else. No. So, like, who is the parent that is helping the kids or creating the fun day for the dad when both are dads? So what it ends up being is a Sunday.
Gavin:
That’s all it ends up being. And now, unless, hey, if one of the grandparents or what some bestie wants to come along and be like, I’m gonna take your kids away from you. And then you think, oh, but when it’s Fay, I really wanna be with my kids. And I mean, it’s just otherwise, it’s just a another day with dishes, but on a different day on the calendar.
David:
It’s we tried to do something fun. We we got a babysitter and we went to go to this open house, and then we were gonna go get a massage and we went to the massage place, and they were like, we’re full, and we were like, okay, we’re gonna go to a cute coffee shop, and we’re gonna get some like you know, baked goods and hang out, and then they were closed, and then so we walked to Dunkin’ Donuts, and we had bad cold brew in a basically empty Dunkin’ Donuts, and then we went home. That was my father’s day.
Gavin:
This is a this is gay America in a nutshell. This is a gay agenda.
SPEAKER_05:
Yeah.
Gavin:
What about you? How would your father’s suffer? This is exactly what the don’t say gay folks in Florida want it to be. They want they want you to suffer just the way that they are suffering with the spas closed, there’s no cute coffee, just get your Dunkin’ and go, your eight dollar cold brew that’s watered down anyway, and go home. Well, you know what? I mean, I definitely woke up once again, as I usually do, with a far too high of expectations, thinking, oh, it’s gonna be magically a day that I didn’t plan. And uh it, it’s uh shit. I gotta think how it started. Well, let me tell you, it didn’t start with breakfast in bed because my children were like, oh, we’re gonna burn the toast and make bad eggs for you, which I would have appreciated. And by the way, I did that for my par my mom on Mother’s Day when I was a kid. So why can’t somebody do that for me when I was a kid? Yeah, but Gabin, that was the 20s, and that was more of the culture of the 20s. Because there was literally nothing else to do except burn the toast. Because what else? I mean, that was TikTok. It was it was TikTok. It was burn toast and do a dance to it. And and the and and you certainly didn’t throw it away because it was the Great Depression. But um, you know what, ultimately, I do have to say, my partner got to have um a day to himself, which was really great, and he was um making some music. He’s uh he’s an orchestrator, and he was under deadline to get some music done, and so he uh just disappeared into his office. Now, listen, in the moment, I’m not gonna lie, I was not happy about that. Um, but at the same time, you know what I did to retaliate? I was like, I’m gonna pour a really strong Bloody Mary and go read a book, which in the grand scheme of things, that was a pretty perfect Father’s Day too. Like multiple Bloody Marys and reading a book and kind of just saying to my kids, fuck off, and they did, and whatever. Uh, but but the the overall feeling is like your expectations for Father’s Day and for Mother’s Day, I’ve talked to I’ve now verified with several mom friends who are like, it is just nonsense that we think this is gonna be such a glorious day, just straight out of a pottery barn catalog. And like so much of life, you gotta be more less planned and lower your expectations and impulsive because otherwise the planning just sucks.
David:
I will say that the one of my favorite parts is the attention I get from just like the like texts and emails and stuff of like it is nice to kind of everyone that people say like happy Father’s Day. Yeah. Um, but it it is a strange thing. I am very happy to be a father. Um doesn’t still it still doesn’t quite feel real, it feels like a part I’m playing, but it it is cool to and you’re like the understudy.
Gavin:
Like, did you actually were you the first choice, do you think?
David:
No, I was I I had been on the first national tour, and then they called me and they were like, You’re a little old, but come on in and can you do this last weekend of Wichita and then just get us through. Um, but it it I do I do love being a dad, but Father’s Day, also the the pressure of it, it’s like let’s just the expectations and everybody so many people asking, did you have a great day?
Gavin:
And you’re like, I mean, I don’t know, between this and that one day I spent one time on a roller coaster, I mean, this was like a solid three and a half. But my three and a half isn’t a bad thing, it’s just like what the what the fuck with the expectations and three and a half is normal in some countries.
David:
So you’re you’re you’re right. In my what are you talking about?
Gavin:
In my country, the you know, three and a half is like that’s better than a two. So that’s really low.
David:
Let’s say six and a half, but Gavin wasn’t picking up my dick joke uh uh metaphor there, but he he jumped right on that three and a half.
Gavin:
I I sure did it. I I it barely registered. Anyway, anyway. Happy Father’s Day, Gavin. Happy every day is Father’s Day to you, David.
David:
All right. Our guest today is someone I almost lit on fire once. True story. Um, she is a mom and an actress, an educator, an advocate, and now she’s the CEO of Stage a Change, which works to support access to the arts for people of color in Australia. She is an American living in Australia, but really, she’s an American living in my heart. Oh, please give a big Gatriarch’s welcome to Cecily Stowball.
Gavin:
Cecily
David:
That’s a real story. I we were in my apartment in at Florida State University where you and I met. Yeah. And I don’t know why, but I was spraying hairspray and lighting it on fire. Why was I this? Because you were in college.
SPEAKER_00:
Because I had this really bad habit in college of falling asleep all the time. Like we would go out to clubs and I would fall asleep on a speaker or something. And you and Walter got the brilliant idea that because I had fallen asleep on your couch, you knew how you were gonna fix it and wake me up, and you lit my mustache on fire. Thank you. That was my first laser hair removal. Thank you.
David:
Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. First of all, I I challenge some of those details. However, what the fuck was wrong with me that even wanted to try to light hairspray on fire near a human in a small apartment on campus? I don’t know.
Gavin:
They say education is wasted on the young, and that is clear that you were a waste of space at FSU.
David:
Um, also, I my my other particular memory of you and I in Florida State is the hairspray incident. And also, one time I called you and I couldn’t find nobody would go tanning with me. I wanted to like lay by the pool and go tanning. And I called you and I was like, what are you doing? You’re like, nothing. I was like, Will you go tanning with me? And you’re like, no. And I was like, Cecily, why? And you’re like, because I’m black, David. I will never forget you screaming at me, being like, because I’m black, David. I was like, fuck.
SPEAKER_00:
Yeah. Oh, you are too. Diversity at its finest.
David:
I mean Dorsey at its finest. So, Cecily, you are my friend, but you are here because you’re also a parent. And specifically, you are an international parent right now, which I think is super interesting. We have a lot of friends um uh who are uh international parents or going to be international parents. Um, and so tell me how you got from where you are now, or how how do you got to where you are now, which is in Melbourne, Australia?
SPEAKER_00:
Yeah, so um I toured with Book of Mormon for about three and a half years, and then when they were opening the Australian company, I was like, have a passport, will travel looking for a boy toy for my time there. So I came to Australia thinking I’d be here for 14 months, and um the boy that I was dating at the time forgot my birthday, so I got back on the apps and met this dude named Scott the day after my birthday. And lo and behold, six and a half years later, me, Scott, and a baby are still kicking it.
David:
Nice, and you got yourself a little local Australian too. I did. What’s hilarious is that like we the first so your daughter Alula, um, when she first started talking, I remember seeing a video of her talking and me being like, oh my god, she has an Australian accent. And my brain couldn’t understand it. I was like, but why would she have an Australian accent? And then I’m like, because she’s fucking growing up in Australia, David, which is hilarious. Is it weird to hear your daughter speak with an Australian accent?
SPEAKER_00:
Yeah, I think it’s weird, especially because as she like started talking, we were in the middle of COVID, so we were pretty much locked down together and she sounded like me, I thought, until I started letting other people like talk to her, and they were well, not like letting her whatever she talks to if she wants to, she’s her own woman. But like, until people started responding, like she has an accent. I’m like, no, she doesn’t, no, she doesn’t. And then like Peppa Pig would be on downstairs, and I’d be like, wait, I I literally don’t know if that’s Susie Sheep or my daughter talking right now.
Gavin:
That’s how I figured out that is amazing. I mean, obviously, your husband is Australian, but uh, you have even oh, I would have imagine like she heard you in the womb, and uh you would have thought that she would have absorbed a little bit of an American accent. I mean, do you Australians think that she speaks weirdly? Does she she have an American tinge?
SPEAKER_00:
This is the thing, is like she’s got this hybrid thing. I’m like, she actually kind of sounds like South African or something because she loves like British kid TV shows, then she’s got Australian and me as an American speaking.
David:
I mean, that’s the those are the ingredients for South African. I mean, literally, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:
Hardcore, that’s it.
David:
So because I know a lot of kids, like I have a friend whose dad has kind of a British Cockney accent, and mom is uh American, and she can turn it on and off. She can, when she’s talking to dad, speak in a British accent, when she’s talking to mom, speak in an American accent.
SPEAKER_00:
Yeah, uh Lula is equally um manipulative, but she had learning to um uh uh she’s learning to speak our like vernacular. So like she’ll say to me, Mom, can I have a banana? And she’ll be like, Dad, can I have a banana? And it’s like, why don’t you just say banana? Like, pick, but like I’m oh, she’s trying she’s tricking us. She knows how to get what she wants from me and from dad. She’s oh right, so smart.
Gavin:
Well, that’s I mean, you she like you said, she’s her own woman and she’s super smart. So good for her. She’s gonna get what she wants in life.
SPEAKER_00:
It’s good.
Gavin:
And what does Alula mean? Is that an Australian uh indigenous name?
SPEAKER_00:
No, it’s um it’s a star. Um, there’s an Alula Australis and an Alula Borealis, so we like that it’s a star that exists in both hemispheres. And it also means like a broken wing of a bird, and our both of our moms like birds. We didn’t know the broken wing part, but that was kind of cool. It was like bird-ish.
David:
So you have 35 passport stamps? Is that true?
SPEAKER_00:
37, and I’m really upset that I don’t have 40 because I wanted 40 before I turned 40. But COVID was a and then kids, like they ruin everything.
Gavin:
Oh, they just ruin everything. Has Alula traveled a lot with you? Um, and how many passport stamps does she have?
SPEAKER_00:
Okay, can we just talk about this bougie baby for just one second? Yes, she’s we’ve gone back and forth. Um, she went to the States at like five months, and then um our borders in Australia were shut down for like two years, and we went back kind of three times in eight months. But now when we travel somewhere, like to Sydney, somewhere that’s local, she gets in the um in the security line and she’s like, Mom, did you bring my passport? Do we have my passport? She’s like, girl, no. We’re going to the Gold Coast, calm down.
David:
We’re going to the Walmart of Australia.
SPEAKER_00:
Relax. We’re literally going to Orlando wannabe. Like, girl, be cool. But yes, so she loves traveling, she loves planes, which is great. But also, like, I realize that I’ve started a very expensive habit way too young.
Gavin:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What talk about entitlement for this bougie traveled baby. So can you tell us some of the differences between American parents and Australian parents?
SPEAKER_00:
You know, I think like, okay, to get like real, in Australia, it’s pretty much commonplace that you would, especially for your first child, like, you’re definitely not going back to work within six months. You’re probably not going back for a year, but legally, they have to hold your job for up to two years. So there’s not the same, like, oh my God, I need to get everything, like, my child has to be able to do everything in six weeks because I have to go back to work energy here that there’s there. Which means like sleep training is like kind of frowned upon because it’s like, whatever, who cares? I don’t have to work. Um, um, you know, there’s not a rush to potty train because you know, there’s not so much, you know, you must be able to do this because you know, you have to be able to go to daycare. You know, there’s not that kind of energy around kids being expected to do things, but also that means like if your kid is just kind of being a shit wherever they go, it’s like, oh, that’s fine. They’re such a clever kid. It’s like, no, they’re they’re an asshole.
David:
I want them to stop screaming, you know, like um that’s so interesting to think about sleep training as uh a reaction to getting back to work. I never considered that because it because I I we were so very pro-sleep training, we were very pro sleep training the second we could do it. For your own. I never thought about that as a reaction for, yeah, well, but a reaction to like because I have to go to work, because I have other things to do, versus like, I ain’t got shit to do, let’s sleep till noon.
SPEAKER_00:
Yeah, it’s funny, like little things like that. Um, but one of I think the greatest things about parenting out here is um when you have a kid, they put you in what they probably in a very soon to change gender norm term, but they give you a mother’s group. And your mother’s group is basically because every other mother is off at around somewhere between like four and in like seven or eight weeks, depending on when your baby’s born, they put you in a group of people who have also just had babies who live within like a mile radius of you. So everyone is going to these meetings and you’re like, oh my god, my baby is so loud during the night, and everyone’s like, Yeah, mine too. You know, like just so like it kind of normalizes that process of all the things like, oh, our projectile vomit turned from orange to yellow. Is that normal? Oh, yeah, that just means you got a little extra mucus. I don’t know, you know, like just all that stuff is so normal, and you get people who are going through the same thing.
Gavin:
Are you saying that the Australian government forces Facebook groups upon your neighborhood so that you have to socialize? Even if you’re like, yes, I need a support group, but really what I need to do is just, I don’t know, go take a nap, but you have forced socialization. That’s fascinating. Yeah, I mean, you turn this beautiful thing into something like that. What if you hate everybody in the group? What if you’re like, I live in a neighborhood that does not reflect me and I fucking hate everybody around me.
David:
Even you have some things to work through right now. You have some things you need to work on, I think.
SPEAKER_00:
I mean, I may, I may think that this is a very interesting juxtaposition of a the Australian mentality that kind of feels sometimes nanny-stateism when you’re on the outside, but actually has some really great comforts on the inside. Because, like, yes, they tell you what the group is that you’re gonna be in, but um, you don’t have to go. Like, you can just say, I don’t want a mother’s group, or you can say, I don’t like these people. I want to go to mother’s group that starts in four weeks instead of this one. Um, but there is so much like energy given to parental care, and you know, you get this goodie bag of like all of you know, nappies and toys, and every library has an open session for your kids. You know, they’re just really invested in giving you something to do as a new parent that’s not sitting in your house being like, oh my god, what what the fuck is this thing? I don’t know what how to do it.
David:
Which is that’s awesome. For those of you at home can’t see, she was doing the hands of like choking, she was like shaking her hands in front of her like she was gonna choke a baby, which I very relatable. I think they say you’re not supposed to do. I think it’s a lot of people. But maybe not in Australia.
Gavin:
Maybe in Australia it’s different though.
David:
But you, Cecily, you you use that kind of knowledge of how they treat parents, and you created something very special that I am a part of, which is this Marco Polo group. And for those of you who don’t know, Marco Polo is this just this app where you can kind of send videos back and forth, either in groups or um to one-on-one. And you started it with there’s I think five of us in the group total. Um, and they were we would had all just had kids, I think within three months of each other. Like all of our kids are pretty close. I think you have the oldest and I have the youngest. And none of everyone knew everyone else by like one person, but like most of us didn’t know the rest of us. And we to this day, what four almost four years later, are still on this app. And it has been invaluable for exactly the reasons you’re saying when when at six weeks, I’m like, guys, I wanted to throw my baby out the window last night. Am I a bad dad? What do I do? And everyone pops on to like, no, I felt the same way. Here’s a here’s a way I and especially with like teething. I mean, what the other day, right? Heather came on and she was like, guys, teething, I don’t remember how to how what what do you do? Do we freeze washcloths? And just to have a safe space, A, to complain, which is basically this podcast, but B, uh, other parents going through the same thing that maybe could give you a tip or trick was fucking invaluable and so great. And so um, I still haven’t met the other people on that app. I’ve never met any of those people. But I feel like they’re my family now because of this thing. So I thank you for making that. And uh a great thing for anybody out there who is gonna have a baby for the first time is get around other people who are having babies for the first time so you guys can all panic together.
SPEAKER_00:
Yeah, literally, that’s what it is. Group panicking, I feel like, and wine. Those are the things that you need for a mother’s group.
Gavin:
And so essentially, Australia gave you a mother’s group, and you gave a mother’s group that’s international to David and a bunch of people who don’t know each other.
SPEAKER_00:
Look at you. I mean, I like to think that I’m an international trendsetter, but um, thank you for bringing that out in the public. I really appreciate that.
Gavin:
What can either of you recall the funniest or most inappropriate or the most galling thing that you saw on your Marco Polo group?
David:
I mean, we to we talk about everything pretty graphically. I don’t know how much we’ve seen because it’s so you know, it’s so hard to like be recording a video and talking while something horrible is happening. But we’ve definitely I mean I don’t know of anything we haven’t said to each other. Yeah, I remember one time we were talking about penises and foreskins. Are you supposed to pull it back? Are you supposed to clean it? And one of the parents was like, I’m pulling it back, but they’re crying, and I’m like, I don’t think you’re supposed to do that. And like we were like this just videos and videos of adults talking about children’s foreskin was was pretty gross. Um but again, we I I don’t have a foreskin, and she didn’t, her husband didn’t, and we were just kind of fumbling and trying to figure out, and just to have this space, safe space to fumble is pretty, pretty great. That was that was pretty weird. I don’t know. What are you thinking, Cecily?
SPEAKER_00:
Yeah, um, that was a really great conversation. I also feel like when we were talking kind of a lot about like um just like poop colors. Like, I’m definitely certain that I shared at least one video on the early days of poop colors, and like this is what a Lula’s poop looks like right now. Have you ever seen anything like this? Or this large or this watery, like definitely.
David:
I remember you showing us a video of the toilet, and they’re like a man-si, like an adult man-sized poop, and you’re like, my three-year-old daughter just created that by herself. I do remember that video.
SPEAKER_00:
It’s like an ice cream cone. Like it was like it.
David:
And also, you know, to be we also like we’ve we’ve had, I won’t go into specifics, but we’ve had uh loss in the group. Um, uh, we’ve had uh uh di different abilities, some it’s just some d some darker things that have happened to people in the group that like it’s I bet it’s been nice to have somebody to be like, guys, here’s here’s what’s happening, here’s all the gross parts, here’s all the great parts. I just need to kind of get that out. And that’s been great too.
SPEAKER_00:
Um and the beauty is like we all are very supportive of each other, but also we’re not all in the day-to-day of each other’s lives. And so it does feel like a space that’s like people who don’t necessarily have to then also see your husband or your partner or whatever, and you can complain about what they’ve done and you don’t have to worry about them hating them too much because they’re probably not gonna hang out on the weekends.
Gavin:
It does seem like a an objective, an objective kvetching community. That’s uh we probably all need more of those, frankly.
David:
But it’s all part of the thing, right? This is why we talk talk about on the podcast all the time. It’s like you if you don’t allow yourself to be whole, oh yeah, then then you just you’re just stifling yourself and it’s gonna come out in different ways. And and so to have those safe spaces is great. Um Cecily, moving on to your professional life, like what is Stage of Change?
SPEAKER_00:
So Stage of Change is a company that I started here in Australia in 2017. Um, when I came, like I said, I came with Mormon, and there were about 11 cast members who were brought over from the US. Nine of us were black, the black African villagers. Two of the actors were the two principals, the two leads. And there was this really big like outcry, like, well, what? Like, we have actors here who could play those two leads. And it there was people were so mad, and we were like, Well, are you guys like also mad about the rest of us? And they’re like, no, babe, we don’t have black people here. And I was like, This seems like it might be a problem. So originally I started the company because there was this sort of like assumption that there weren’t actors of color here, and further assumption that the actors of color who were here, um, because they hadn’t had, you know, lots of reps on stage, they couldn’t possibly have done eight shows a week, that they couldn’t possibly be um, you know, uh doing these big main stage commercial Broadway shows, that they had to import artists of color. And it was sort of at the same time that um Aladdin was happening here, Mormon was happening, and then Beautiful was happening as well. But with Beautiful, they made a very um conscious decision to have an all-Australian cast, but for you know, the drifters and the Sherrells who were playing these historically black people, um, you know, and nothing against the people who were cast and hired, they did the job they were hired to do, but you know, it was Asian, South Asian, um, Fijian, you know, lots of other identities other than black because it wasn’t here. So then the question became well, is it more important to have authentic representation of identity when it’s important, or is it more important to cast Australian and not import, you know, import actors is what they call it. So anyway, that’s really what the company was started about and questions that we were starting to answer. We’ve been around now for about six years, um, have just turned into a not-for-profit, and now we work much wider in not only the performing art sector, but also the wider art sector, um, and look at how we can create access for artists of color to opportunities and then sustain and uplift those opportunities. So doing a lot of DEI work and supporting institutions that are looking at ways to be more inclusive for the human beings that have historically not been welcomed into their organizations or practices or on their stages.
Gavin:
That’s fascinating. And uh, has it have you been able to uh build out the community greatly of Indigenous Australians as well and leading uh like bringing them into the theatrical Australian world? Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:
I I mean I certainly think that don’t think that I like I myself have ushered people in. Um I wouldn’t give myself enough cred as much credit for that, but I do think there is a really big conversation that happens in Australia about First Nations people that’s different than the way that Indigenous communities are looked at and represented worldwide. I mean, uh indigenous Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people are the oldest continuous living culture in the world, like hands down. So it’s pretty cool that they have so much content and storytelling and community and history and tradition, but also um the not to get like super heady, but like the stolen generation has left a lot of people who identify as First Nations or Indigenous um with, you know, the stolen generation is basically when they took indigenous people out of their families and said, here, go live with white people. So you’ve got a lot of people who are white passing or don’t look like they are ethnic or diverse or racially diverse, who have been historically told to hide that part of their identity so that they could fit into the community. So there’s a big piece of um uncovering and creating space for identity to belong, no matter what it looks like. If that makes sense.
Gavin:
Yeah, it totally does. That’s I mean, what a what a fantastic opportunity and great timing for you to be there and and foster change. It’s fantastic.
David:
This is also just like complete porn for Gavin. He’s you’re just talking about just everything he loves.
Gavin:
David’s like, can we get back to talking about actual porn rather than Gavin’s porn, which is well, speaking of porn, um you are also an intimacy coordinator.
David:
I want to I want you to tell us what that is. Like, what is an intimacy coordinator?
SPEAKER_00:
Yeah. So um I usually describe it as similarly to when you watch a fight scene and you know that all of the fighting is choreographed so that people are safe. I do the same thing for anything that’s intimate, which includes anything that is obviously like simulated sex, sexual violence, um, but also things like familial touch. So um a parent that’s holding a baby, or a mother who’s seen as breastfeeding, or childbirth, or elderly care, anything that has um any kind of touch that probably wouldn’t be what you would do with that human being. If you saw them in a grocery store is what I help with. Um, and supporting the choreography of what that movement looks like, but also the well-being of the artists that have to perform it, have to receive it, the crew that has to observe it as well. And then looking at what the director’s vision is for that and uh making sure that we’re working within the boundaries of the actor to deliver the story in a way that feels safe for all parties involved.
David:
Oh, that’s I I uh I am so glad that this position exists now because as a director, I have had to direct many scenes of intimacy, violence, that kind of stuff. And I I can do it, but I I think about you coming in and being a partner with me in that and me kind of talking about my broad artistic vision and you being able to choreograph, but also for the actors to feel like they have a point person to feel safe with to kind of have those hushed, quiet, embarrassed conversations that aren’t maybe in front of me or the whole team. I I see the value in that. I remember this is not the same, but tangentially, I saw a play one time where the all the actors were naked, and a play was a lot about sex, and it was a very small theater, and I felt very uncomfortable. Um, but there was a scene I remember where one of the actors uh his his anatomy kicked into gear when he clearly did not want it, and he was struggling to continue the scene and hide all the things because he was fully naked sitting in a chair. Oh my god. And I was thinking, oh my god, this boy is probably wanting to just die right now.
Gavin:
Um can you Cecily, can you help um can you help uh men who feel their adolescents coming through in awkward times like math class to help them uh help them go back down?
SPEAKER_00:
I love the way that you phrase that. Um we do have lots of tips and tricks for when someone is playing. Really? Like, not necessarily to to immediately cease an erection or a flush of blood. Um but to particularly if they’re enclosed, like things that we can put inside to cover or hide or protect. If we’re doing a simulated sex scene, uh, you know, especially, but if we’re if we’re performing, you know, if we’re doing like a film or something and someone has an erection, like that’s my job then to say, cut, go to the director, hey, we’ve got to stop for a second, take that actor to a safe place so that they can do what they need to do, and then we can come back and shoot, as opposed to like everybody being like, I I think, I think he’s uh I can’t tell if he’s you know, like that kind of stuff.
Gavin:
Like And Cecily, what do they need to do? This conversation has uh gone exactly in the direction it was supposed to. I was not expecting it, but yes. So anyway, what do they need to do, Cecily? Think about dead puppies or off themselves.
unknown:
Wow.
David:
Well, honestly, Wow gave it that was a real dark turn. Those are dark options I want to just point out.
SPEAKER_00:
I mean, like some people may feel that the you know, what I have learned is that every erection is different, and so they’re like snowflakes, they’re like stars in the sky.
David:
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:
How beautiful, how beautiful, like the Australas and the Borealis. No, um, yeah. Um, but you know, some people may feel like they need to go and relieve themselves, and that’s actually the fastest way to solve that problem. Some people may feel like, no, I just need two minutes of myself, I know what I need to think about. Some people may need some exercises to minimize the vagal, the vagal nerve response, and we can take them through some breathing exercises. Some people just are so embarrassed they just want to be alone and talk about anything other than that. So everybody’s kind of different, and that’s the kind of thing about my job is like just like every erection is different, every person’s different. Thank you. Thank you.
David:
But I I I all in all seriousness, like as a director, I I so am so happy that this role now exists and I hope it sticks around forever because it is just like having a choreographer, like having a fight captain, it’s just a smart move, especially because in my experience, when you’re when you’re directing something, having the trust of your actors and the comfort of your actor actors only gives the best performance. And having somebody like you that they can trust and feel embarrassed in a safe space with is exactly what you would need to get a scene like that to where it needs to go. Because not every scene is just making out in love and I love you. Some of them are, like you said, violent or or dark, where you you need a little bit of kind of a feeling of safety. So I I very much appreciate it. So everybody go out there and hire Cecily uh for their intimacy coordination.
Gavin:
But I definitely could have used your services when I was in eighth grade playing Vince Fontaine in Greece, and I had to stand during the dance scene in Greece and make out with Marty Maraschino, who was played by a senior in high school. It was mortifying beyond my imagination. I had to do it in front of my mom, in front of all these people. Oh my god. But I gotta say, I learned how to make out with the best of them. It was uh, you know, I learned a lot. I learned a lot, but my god, it was mortifying. Fucking mortifying. Oh, eighth grade, that’s hard. With a senior in high school. Yeah.
unknown:
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:
I’m like, I’m feeling that that’s statutory in certain places. Like a hundred percent.
David:
So, Cecily, uh, do you ever want to come back to the US? What is what does the future look like for you and your family and your daughter?
SPEAKER_00:
I mean, look, I’ll but be really real. COVID was super hard. Um, in Australia, we shut like all the way down. You couldn’t go out, you couldn’t have people come in. Um, immediate family was allowed to come and visit, but parents weren’t considered immediate family. So I went two years without seeing my mom, and like we are hella close. So that was really hard. Um, and being an only child and knowing faux show that this is my only child. I can’t imagine that we are that I’m able to keep my mother and my child separate any longer. I feel some responsibility for that. Um, so I imagine we’ll come come back to the states at least for a couple of years, probably in the sooner rather than later future, just because like, you know, it’s like, when am I gonna screw up my child’s life? Am I gonna take her from our best friend when she’s four, or am I gonna take her from her best friend when she’s like 12? Well, how am I gonna where am I gonna screw this up? So I feel like younger is better. So yeah, I I imagine there is a a move within probably within the calendar year.
Gavin:
Okay. Oh, that’s exciting. We get to see re-re re-interview and rechat when you’re back on this side and you can say, Oh my god, America is so much better. Let me tell you why.
SPEAKER_00:
I mean, I’m what I was gonna say, like, I’m legit scared, like just a little bit, of like, you know, what happens when my kid is an asshole in a restaurant, and I’m like, oh, sorry, that’s just how we do it in Australia. And they’ll be like, But you’re not Australian. Get get it.
David:
You’re an American male, and you’re like, oh Lord, here we go.
Gavin:
Yeah, we’ve we’ve got we’ve got some things going on here too, some uh some uh things that definitely affect the parents all over the place.
David:
So Well, Cecily Stovol, thank you so much for joining us on Gay Charks and demeaning yourself by doing this interview. Truly appreciate it. And you can go to bed now because it’s midnight where you live.
SPEAKER_00:
A little bit.
David:
It’s midnight tomorrow. What’s the future look like quickly?
SPEAKER_00:
Uh it’s still here. And um there’s there’s still wine, so we’re good.
Gavin:
So something great happened recently, even though it’s not Pride Month anymore. I was at a Starbucks near us, and we aren’t exactly in uh uh Rohobath Beach, Provincetown, or San Francisco. But one of the baristas was still putting little rainbow stickers on every single one of the drinks, um just spreading prideful joy uh all around the southeast coast of Connecticut. And that was something great this week.
David:
So my something great um is gonna trump your something great. Sorry. Oh jeez. Um Gatriarchs just had a boy. It’s right! He is Walker. Um Gatriarchs! We are so excited. Uh, we have our first intern joining us, and uh, his name is Timothy. Say hi, Timothy.
SPEAKER_03:
Hello, Timothy!
David:
We are so excited to have Timothy. Um he’s in Massachusetts, but he’s our new intern. So if anything amazing happens online with Gatriarchs, it’s totally him. If anything terrible happens, it’s Gavin. So just know that that’s how that works. But we’re so excited to have you.
Gavin:
I was gonna frame that joke differently. But Timothy, how would you have j uh framed that joke?
SPEAKER_03:
Oh, um I maybe shift the blame to David. Always always thank you.
David:
He’s only been here for a week, but guys, he’s he’s starting to really figure it out. Super excited to have you.
Gavin:
Timothy, thank you. What do you think so far in your uh couple of weeks here at the Gatriarchs uh fun house?
SPEAKER_03:
I think it’s quite fun and funny, and I’m glad to be here. Awesome.
David:
That was the correct answer. Totally. You you win, you get the correct answer. Well, we’re so excited to have you here. Um, and that is my something great. And that’s our show. If you have any comments, suggestions, or general compliments for Timothy, you can email us at Gatriarchspodcast at gmail.com.
Gavin:
Or you can DM us on Instagram. We are at Gatriarchspodcast on the internet. David is at David FMVonEverywhere, and Gavin recently joined the internet age at GavenLodge on everywhere else. Please leave us a glowing five-star review wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks, and we’ll be smacking you later on another episode of Gatriarchs.
David:
Um, thank you for staying after the episode. Uh, my husband had some reject baby names he wanted to uh present.
SPEAKER_01:
So go ahead, Brian. Okay, I couldn’t narrow it down to just three. So here are the other ones. Angela Bassinet. Lady Goo Goo. I did that one. I did that one already. All right, BB Shark. These two are similar. I got Chrysaminelli, nice, and Barbara Chrysand, Crawley Parton. Wow. International, I’ve got Pram Anderson, Baby Newark, Patty Cakes, and share ya toys. And then one bonus drag king name, teeth and sondheim. Wow. So this is this is the man I married. I’m sorry for who I am.